Trade Down

[Haimerej]

Marvin Wilson

Is the gap between he and Barmore greater than that of the CBs available in the 2nd?

 

[Turk]

I really do not see a single DT that I would spend a first on. The only reason Barrmore is hyped is because he is the best of a mediocre lot.

There are a couple of players like McNeil that would give us what we really need; a stone wall in the middle strong enough to give the rush some push up the middle. Not great players; maybe not even pro bowl players; but good enough.

I do think that unless some offensive player really falls and we do not get a really good offer of a trade we need to look at defense for our first three picks.

 

[Verdict]

If there was a disruptive force at DT then teams would covet him
There isn’t one
Getting the best egg in a dozen rotten egg still gets you a rotten egg

Correct. Taco. Correct.

 

[Cebrin]

Is the gap between he and Barmore greater than that of the CBs available in the 2nd?

Marvin will fall later than 2, but no. Not really. Barmore is inconsistent, and has a lazy motor. Marvin is relentless, and better than anything we're working with. Pure 1-tech that will wear the middle out. CB2 I hope for Kelvin Joseph in the 3rd, or an extra late second trading down, and St Juste in Rd 5. He's big, and shadows guys in one on one's .

 

[conner01]

Which position is deeper in this draft- DT or CB?

CB
What position is void of talent? DT
I don’t think there is a real belief from scouts that any of the DT’s in this draft are real impact players
If there was they would be going so late
Every team wants an impact DT but they are difficult to find and have a high bust rate
And that’s in normal years
This is a really bad dline draft and that’s why you don’t see any in the top 10 and may not in the top half

 

[Haimerej]

CB
What position is void of talent? DT
I don’t think there is a real belief from scouts that any of the DT’s in this draft are real impact players
If there was they would be going so late
Every team wants an impact DT but they are difficult to find and have a high bust rate
And that’s in normal years
This is a really bad dline draft and that’s why you don’t see any in the top 10 and may not in the top half

If the class is weaker, wouldn't it be better to get the top of the class and pull from the deeper position later? I've seen Barmore rated top 15.

 

[conner01]

If the class is weaker, wouldn't it be better to get the top of the class and pull from the deeper position later? I've seen Barmore rated top 15.

Not too me
Give me the best player who fits a need
Not necessarily the best player of your biggest need when that player is hands down a worse prospect than the other
Surtain or horn are both dramatically better prospects than Barrimore though Barrimore plays a more coveted position
But he’s not the same talent level
Barrimore would be a second round pick in some draft classes

 

[Cebrin]

Take the trade down and get the extra 3rd. Use that as ammo if someone slides into the 2nd that we want. Get 3 top 44 picks.

Or back in to late first. 100% with you.

 

[Haimerej]

Not too me
Give me the best player who fits a need
Not necessarily the best player of your biggest need when that player is hands down a worse prospect than the other
Surtain or horn are both dramatically better prospects than Barrimore though Barrimore plays a more coveted position
But he’s not the same talent level
Barrimore would be a second round pick in some draft classes

Are you taking an approach that DT can't be addressed with the draft or that later round guys can help as much as Barmore? Because if they're as devoid of depth as you say, a late first/early second run on DTs could deplete you before that 2nd pick.

 

[Cebrin]

If there was a disruptive force at DT then teams would covet him
There isn’t one
Getting the best egg in a dozen rotten egg still gets you a rotten egg

Marvin Wilson is better than Barmore, and he'll fall.

 

[Haimerej]

Marvin Wilson is better than Barmore, and he'll fall.

Possible 3rd round target?

 

[Cebrin]

Possible 3rd round target?

Man, I hope. He's a pure 1 tech. Watch him on YouTube. Particularly 2018-2019 tape where they used him properly. Part of his stock drop is that they played a lot of 3 man front in 2020, and his production fell off. Even then, he wasn't awful, just out of position. Opposing teams would still run everything to the edges. He commands a double team.

 

[buybuydandavis]

Unless a starting T or Pitts is there at 10, I'm trading down. Plenty of big bodies for 1 & 3 techs in later rds, as well as depth at LB, Edge, and CB2.

In most of my fools gold mocks I wind up trading down, and taking Moehrig near 20, and stacking big needs in later rds.

Like it.

 

[Cebrin]

I really do not see a single DT that I would spend a first on. The only reason Barrmore is hyped is because he is the best of a mediocre lot.

There are a couple of players like McNeil that would give us what we really need; a stone wall in the middle strong enough to give the rush some push up the middle. Not great players; maybe not even pro bowl players; but good enough.

I do think that unless some offensive player really falls and we do not get a really good offer of a trade we need to look at defense for our first three picks.

Marvin Wilson 2018-2019 when he was used at his actual position. Dominant. Better than Barmore. I pray we draft him. His motor is insane, and he is mean as a snake.

 

[visionary]

Unless a starting T or Pitts is there at 10, I'm trading down. Plenty of big bodies for 1 & 3 techs in later rds, as well as depth at LB, Edge, and CB2.

In most of my fools gold mocks I wind up trading down, and taking Moehrig near 20, and stacking big needs in later rds.

What are your thoughts? I'm insanely excited for tomorrow guys. There's a lot of talent on the defense this year. This is the rare moment I'm optimistic. I'm just scared about getting QB2 in the draft. It's a glaring issue.

agree with trade down as nobrainer so watch Jerry trade up to make a splash

 

[CowboyoWales]

I really do not see a single DT that I would spend a first on. The only reason Barrmore is hyped is because he is the best of a mediocre lot.

There are a couple of players like McNeil that would give us what we really need; a stone wall in the middle strong enough to give the rush some push up the middle. Not great players; maybe not even pro bowl players; but good enough.

I do think that unless some offensive player really falls and we do not get a really good offer of a trade we need to look at defense for our first three picks.

Your point on McNeil is one of the reasons i'm not against trading down. We have specific holes, where we really struggle.... run blocking/pocket collapsing DT, FS and a CB.

We arent looking necessarily looking for a 3 down 3-tech DT, nor a Safety that can play in the slot....we can focus on players strengths. eg I dont care McNeil doesnt get to the QB, I just want him to occupy the O-Line/push the pocket and create gaps for Gregory, Gallimore/Hill, Tank, Neal and Jaylon.

Look at Holland for instance, he'd possibly go first round if he had the body to play in the slot.....well we wouldnt be playing him there, we're already stacked at that position, we need a FS so the VALUE to us is in his FS play, which could well be graded in 1st round.

 

[Melonfeud]

I'd still want top 20 pick, plus an extra 2,3 and 4 or 5.
Cow-girls need bodies, and good players can still be had at 2 - 5.

What manner of idiot sh*theaded subversive r u ,anyway there Shane?

"Cow -girls"? SERIOUSLY? Here in Castle Dallas you spew that, , reckon ,it just goes to show that my instincts /under the wire sapper detector has been operationally spot on concerning you since day one,,,What a Maroon

 

[Whyjerry]

Unless a starting T or Pitts is there at 10, I'm trading down. Plenty of big bodies for 1 & 3 techs in later rds, as well as depth at LB, Edge, and CB2.

In most of my fools gold mocks I wind up trading down, and taking Moehrig near 20, and stacking big needs in later rds.

What are your thoughts? I'm insanely excited for tomorrow guys. There's a lot of talent on the defense this year. This is the rare moment I'm optimistic. I'm just scared about getting QB2 in the draft. It's a glaring issue.

I agree except for the Pitts part.

 

[Turk]

Marvin Wilson 2018-2019 when he was used at his actual position. Dominant. Better than Barmore. I pray we draft him. His motor is insane, and he is mean as a snake.

What round do you think he will go in?

 

[conner01]

Marvin Wilson is better than Barmore, and he'll fall.

He’s Atleast as good a prospect
But won’t likely fall to 44 and he’s not as good a prospect as with Horn or surtain
I just don’t want to draft a position
I want to draft really good players
We have 10 picks and all 10 aren’t making the team
I’d be leveraging some to add another second round pick
DT, CB, LB, DE are all positions we need
Adding another second is very possible with an extra 3 and 4 even if you have to throw in a future 3
Then we can get really good prospects at 3 of those