Twitter: Stephen Jones admits they would have reached for a cornerback had Horn or Surtain been there

[TheDude]

It is a free country. You are free to take any statistic or data and correlate it or show causation. You are free to choose whatever statistical parameters you like to prove out whatever it is you are trying to say. I assume you are speaking about your GM data you spoke so highly about. It is your data (I suppose) on the GM.

"Its onlyAC or DC, 2, 3 or 4 phase electrical circuits by the way...no need for stats...right?" - I have no idea what you are trying to say here.

I was responding to Reid1boys who asked me if i ever used statistics when I asked who built the 4 "garbage teams" that Manning wouldn't sign vs who built Denvers rostr that gave him a better chance to win.

you ever take statistics? Bell shaped curve... it applies pretty well for NFL rosters.

and then and you jumped in asking for "MY" Statistics. [I actually thought your reply was from him because why would you logically skip his introduction of a statistical theory and focus on my reply ?????]. It was his [baseless] assertion I challenged. Ask him to produce

 

[Buzzbait]

This is what I love about our dysfunctional ownership. They just can’t help but promote themselves divulging info most front offices never would.

But this shouldn’t surprise anyone as it’s what most of us thought going in. But amazing they feel the need to disclose. Just pitiful but laughable . Lol

Don't know what the big deal is about that, they did what they had to do. So what's the big secret about it? I don't see anything dysfunctional or pitiful about it. They did what they had to do, which like you said was what most of us thought going in. No big surprises there.

 

[Reid1boys]

I was responding to Reid1boys who asked me if i ever used statistics when I asked who built the 4 "garbage teams" that Manning wouldn't sign vs who built Denvers rostr that gave him a better chance to win.


and then and you jumped in asking for "MY" Statistics. [I actually thought your reply was from him because why would you logically skip his introduction of a statistical theory and focus on my reply ?????]. It was his [baseless] assertion I challenged. Ask him to produce

ask me to produce what?

 

[TheDude]

i honestly don’t get the attitudes towards LB amongst some folks.

I am trying to think back to some of the best defenses in the past couple of decades. They almost all have had a stud LB or two that were a key player for the defense.

Ravens: Ray Lewis
Seattle: Bobby Wagner
Panthers: Keuchly
Bears: Urlacher
Bucs: years with Derrick Brooks. Most recently Devin White
49ers: Patrick Willis
Patriots: Hightower most recently but previously guys like Vrabel, Mcginess, Bruschi

I mean. I just don’t get where the idea came from that LB’s aren’t impact players for a defense. There is a long long list of great LB’s who have been absolute difference makers for a defense. Even in the modern NFL

Well this is exactly it. But you may be a little light. When you think of the best defenses in history, which ones revolved around CBs? The best lines had stellar Dlines and at least 1 Stud LB and a Great Safety. You could argue Seattle was close, but who was the game changers - Sherman and Maxwell or Chancellor and Thomas. There are only 2-3 CBs that really were game changers: Sanders and Woodson, Lott. Bellicheck had Ty Law, but he converted his slot WR to CB and didnt get burned for it - why? Maybe McGinnis, Bruschi, Vrabel, Seymour, Wilfork, Milloy, Harrison....

Ravens: Lewis, Ngata, Suggs, Reed, Adams, Boulware was likely the best modern defense leading to a SB season where the held opponents to 10 or under 11 times with 4 shutouts.
85 Bears: Singletary, McMichael, Perry, Dent, O Wilson, Marshall, Fencik, Duerson...but Mike Richardson and Leslie Frazier are the CB names that live in lore

NYGiants: Reason, Carson, Taylor, Pepper Johnson, Banks

Tone and domination is set by the Dline, LB and safety. CBs need to be serviceable, sound and opportunistic

 

[TheDude]

ask me to produce what?

Your bell curve

 

[visionary]

To the infected, let me blow your diseased mind here.

Micah Parsons is more impactful than if the Cowboys had drafted Jaycee Horn AND Patrick Surtain.

God speed to you in your remaining days.

Clearly we dodged a bullet there

 

[visionary]

i honestly don’t get the attitudes towards LB amongst some folks.

I am trying to think back to some of the best defenses in the past couple of decades. They almost all have had a stud LB or two that were a key player for the defense.

Ravens: Ray Lewis
Seattle: Bobby Wagner
Panthers: Keuchly
Bears: Urlacher
Bucs: years with Derrick Brooks. Most recently Devin White
49ers: Patrick Willis
Patriots: Hightower most recently but previously guys like Vrabel, Mcginest, Bruschi

I mean. I just don’t get where the idea came from that LB’s aren’t impact players for a defense. There is a long long list of great LB’s who have been absolute difference makers for a defense. Even in the modern NFL

great defenses are built with

Great DL
great MLB
Great safety play

these are the key elements needed fir CONSISTENTLY great defences

CBs just have to be reasonably good, disciplined and good tacklers

 

[Verdict]

This quote may be one of the most idiotic I have heard Stephen utter.

 

[Buzzbait]

I mean our current coach sucks and the Packers are better without him.

I think that judgement is more than a little premature. I wouldn't pass judgement on ANY HC after 1 totally crazy, unreal season like last year. Last year with the Cowboys would've been a total nightmare for any new HC.

 

[Buzzbait]

Then what is the purpose or intent with coming out now and saying Parsons wasn’t their initial choice?

Diehard the way you hate this FO you'd be critical of ANYTHING they say, no matter what it was.

 

[CWR]

Reached? Neither one would’ve been a reach.

They probably consider them reaches given Parsons and possibly others were higher on their draft board. At least that's the only context I can imagine making that statement true. Although I agree with you, neither would've been a reach.

 

[Diehardblues]

Diehard the way you hate this FO you'd be critical of ANYTHING they say, no matter what it was.

Why would anyone support our dysfunctional FO this era? It’s been an embarrassment for much of last 25 years.

And I’ll ask you why you think they’d come out with this statement now?

 

[Diehardblues]

Don't know what the big deal is about that, they did what they had to do. So what's the big secret about it? I don't see anything dysfunctional or pitiful about it. They did what they had to do, which like you said was what most of us thought going in. No big surprises there.

The bigger point is why come out and disclose this now which dismisses what they claimed after the draft?

 

[HungryLion]

For us, I don't think it was a matter of Parsons not being viewed as an impact player or difference maker. I think it was simply a matter of who we had at each position.

At linebacker, we had a No. 1 pick (LVE), a No. 2 pick (Smith) and a No. 1 pick (Neal). At corner, we had a No. 2 pick (Diggs), then a steep dropoff with Brown, Lewis, Canady, Goodwin and Robinson.

Upgrading linebacker was a fine want, but we needed a starting corner.

Sure. But you’re not supposed to draft lesser players for need. At least ideally you’re not supposed to.

 

[HungryLion]

great defenses are built with

Great DL
great MLB
Great safety play

these are the key elements needed fir CONSISTENTLY great defences

CBs just have to be reasonably good, disciplined and good tacklers

I agree. The front 7 is and always has been the most important part of a defense.

 

[Diehardblues]

Sure. But you’re not supposed to draft lesser players for need. At least ideally you’re not supposed to.

There are exceptions . If you have a #1 QB or RB for example you wouldn’t use your top pick for another one in most cases unless you think you’ll be letting one go in coming years.

And in this case if you believe the secondary is a greater need and the talent is close which from a 10th pick to a 12th pick could be argued talent level is very close then it’s really not a stretch.

 

[Big_D]

For us, I don't think it was a matter of Parsons not being viewed as an impact player or difference maker. I think it was simply a matter of who we had at each position.

At linebacker, we had a No. 1 pick (LVE), a No. 2 pick (Smith) and a No. 1 pick (Neal). At corner, we had a No. 2 pick (Diggs), then a steep dropoff with Brown, Lewis, Canady, Goodwin and Robinson.

Upgrading linebacker was a fine want, but we needed a starting corner.

LVE and Smith were both picks for the previous coach. Doesn't mean the new coach had to be stuck with it. The teams been getting run over for years! There's a steep drop off at LB also no matter where they were drafted.

 

[HungryLion]

There are exceptions . If you have a #1 QB or RB for example you wouldn’t use your top pick for another one in most cases unless you think you’ll be letting one go in coming years.

And in this case if you believe the secondary is a greater need and the talent is close which from a 10th pick to a 12th pick could be argued talent level is very close then it’s really not a stretch.

Of course there are exceptions. But a player like Parsons is also a great need.

can rush the passer. And the best run defender in college football. For a team that had an awful run defense. Not to mention linebackers who sucked last year.

I always thought Parsons was the better pick to be honest.

 

[Big_D]

What's funny is it looks like they not only got the best defender in the draft, but another starting caliber CB in the 2nd. Draft value is just another phrase that gets tossed around. The fact is they ended up with great value on the trade back and quality players on the return. It's all you could ask for. No injuries or stupid gambles specially in the early rounds... or tradeups, it just makes no sense and Jerry loves doing it. I haven't seen any of that in the past 2 drafts. Drafting D, getting some playmakers in here and people still cry??! What's happening right now is a huge difference from the Garrett/Marinelli years. I get the apprehension but this team has drafted well and smart the past 2 seasons.

 

[Diehardblues]

Of course there are exceptions. But a player like Parsons is also a great need.

can rush the passer. And the best run defender in college football. For a team that had an awful run defense. Not to mention linebackers who sucked last year.

I always thought Parsons was the better pick to be honest.

I’m not here actually arguing whether he was the better pick.