CFZ Why I think the team should switch to a 3-4

[RustyBourneHorse]

I think switching to a more through hybrid/proper 3-4 may be smart for the defence. They're built for it imo. I'd have, just picturing it in my head, Gallimore or Osa rotating, John Ridgeway or Bohanna, and Tank Lawrence on the Dline. Then I'd have Sam Williams on one end and Parsons on the other end of LB, we'd then have LVE and Cox at the interior LB position.

I think this may be a deadly way to deal with those two. Firstly, having that Dline lineup means the oline can't really try to double team anyone for starters because those dlinemen are very strong pass rushers in their own right. Secondly, they're also very good run stoppers, and they are very good (especially Ridgeway) at being able to push the oline back as he swallows the blocks making the RB have to hesitate. This would allow LVE and Cox to get him down on the backfield. As for the pass bit, even if the oline wanted to try to double team, they can't. Double team Parsons or LVE, and the other basically has free run at the QB and are men on a mission. Also, the defence seems to be built to handle more of the 3-4 with the players we have.

At least in my head, the way I see it is the players I mentioned would make it incredibly difficult for the QB to get the pass off, and it'll make stopping the run easier because of the personnel on the field. Furthermore, it allows a bit more ease for Sam Williams to rush the passer. Sort of like having a Charles Haley and a DWare both going at the QB at the same time. The secondary's job would be much easier.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

Quinn plays a hybrid 4-3, 3-4 look anyway, and he shifts his linemen in different gaps. I am sure you will see a lot of 3-4 looks this year. it takes a couple or three years to get the right players to be able to play a scheme. so with Parson, Williams, Cox and the two big NT type DTs, he has the players to pull off many looks. imagine Ridgeway, Bohanna, Lawrence and Williams/Golston on the line on running downs. that's a tough line to run on, then you switch to OSa, Gallimore, Fowler/williams, Lawrence and parsons roaming back there, williams could rush from stand up position or hands down. the more looks you give an offense to prepare for, the harder it is for them to prepare for it. I like the hybrid look more than just being 4-3 or 3-4 alone.

 

[RustyBourneHorse]

Quinn plays a hybrid 4-3, 3-4 look anyway, and he shifts his linemen in different gaps. I am sure you will see a lot of 3-4 looks this year. it takes a couple or three years to get the right players to be able to play a scheme. so with Parson, Williams, Cox and the two big NT type DTs, he has the players to pull off many looks. imagine Ridgeway, Bohanna, Lawrence and Williams/Golston on the line on running downs. that's a tough line to run on, then you swirtch to OSa, Gallimore, Fowler/williams, Lawrence and parsons roaming back there, williams could rush from stand up position or hands down. the more looks you give an offense to prepare for, the harder it is for them to prepare for it. I like the hybrid look more than just being 4-3 or 3-4 alone.

Oh, and I like the mixing of the 3-4 and 4-3. I think switching between them 1. Makes us versatile and 2 difficult to prepare against. Also, I think Quinn ran a lot of the 3-4 in Seattle as I recall. I would favor the 3-4 with Williams and Parsons because the oline would be much too overpowered. Considering the QBs we play this year with Rodgers, this would be a very handy way at getting after Rodgers. Imagine Rodgers' face when he sees Parsons and Williams coming after him at the same time

 

[Pass2Run]

Some of us think they're already gearing up the personnel to make the switch to 3-4.

Look at this draft, and all signs point to yes.

Oh, and I like the mixing of the 3-4 and 4-3. I think switching between them 1. Makes us versatile and 2 difficult to prepare against. Also, I think Quinn ran a lot of the 3-4 in Seattle as I recall. I would favor the 3-4 with Williams and Parsons because the oline would be much too overpowered. Considering the QBs we play this year with Rodgers, this would be a very handy way at getting after Rodgers. Imagine Rodgers' face when he sees Parsons and Williams coming after him at the same time

Agree on mixing them.

Even the 5-1, 4-6, etc.

 

[RustyBourneHorse]

Some of us think they're already gearing up the personnel to make the switch to 3-4.

Look at this draft, and all signs point to yes.



Agree on mixing them.

Even the 5-1, 4-6, etc.

Hmm, I could definitely see the 4-6. That would be fun! The 5-1, not sure about, but yes I can definitely see a combo of 3-4, 4-3, and 4-6 being used. Also, to your point in another thread, I think the acquisition of Clark is further proof of us shifting to a 3-4.

 

[JBS]

First thought - here is our annual let’s move to a 3-4 thread

second thought

osa and tank as 5 techs is absolutely a disaster - let’s put this dumb idea to rest

 

[Pass2Run]

Hmm, I could definitely see the 4-6. That would be fun! The 5-1, not sure about, but yes I can definitely see a combo of 3-4, 4-3, and 4-6 being used. Also, to your point in another thread, I think the acquisition of Clark is further proof of us shifting to a 3-4.

5-1 is just one variation of the Nickel, usually.

And we're totally moving to a 3-4, although I don't think we totally abandon the 4-3.

 

[Pass2Run]

First thought - here is our annual let’s move to a 3-4 thread

second thought

osa and tank as 5 techs is absolutely a disaster - let’s put this dumb idea to rest

It's not really the fans here, though, this time.

It's what the personnel kinda indicates.

That said, we also have 4-3 personnel.

 

[Bobhaze]

The NFL trend now is not to nail yourself down with one particular scheme- 4-3 or 3-4. The dominant passing game offenses have made defensive coordinators be very creative in deployment of personnel.

 

[RustyBourneHorse]

5-1 is just one variation of the Nickel, usually.

And we're totally moving to a 3-4, although I don't think we totally abandon the 4-3.

Ah, I can definitely see the 5-1 then.

It's not really the fans here, though, this time.

It's what the personnel kinda indicates.

That said, we also have 4-3 personnel.

Exactly, so we do have more of a mix. I'm just thinking that leaning a bit more to the 3-4 could be helpful as it means we'd be able to overpower olines better. But, the same could be true in a 4-3, 4-6, and 5-1. I like that we are much more versatile.

 

[JBS]

It's not really the fans here, though, this time.

It's what the personnel kinda indicates.

That said, we also have 4-3 personnel.

The personnel absolutely does not warrant a 3-4. As I mentioned in my previous post. The players listed as starters at 5T would fail miserably

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

Am I missing something? Did the defense not have one of their better. years last year? Why do you want to change it? They can't stop the run. That can be fixed with simply using resources. I would keep whatever hybrid defense they ran last year and stick with it until it gets broken.

 

[xwalker]

I think switching to a more through hybrid/proper 3-4 may be smart for the defence. They're built for it imo. I'd have, just picturing it in my head, Gallimore or Osa rotating, John Ridgeway or Bohanna, and Tank Lawrence on the Dline. Then I'd have Sam Williams on one end and Parsons on the other end of LB, we'd then have LVE and Cox at the interior LB position.

I think this may be a deadly way to deal with those two. Firstly, having that Dline lineup means the oline can't really try to double team anyone for starters because those dlinemen are very strong pass rushers in their own right. Secondly, they're also very good run stoppers, and they are very good (especially Ridgeway) at being able to push the oline back as he swallows the blocks making the RB have to hesitate. This would allow LVE and Cox to get him down on the backfield. As for the pass bit, even if the oline wanted to try to double team, they can't. Double team Parsons or LVE, and the other basically has free run at the QB and are men on a mission. Also, the defence seems to be built to handle more of the 3-4 with the players we have.

At least in my head, the way I see it is the players I mentioned would make it incredibly difficult for the QB to get the pass off, and it'll make stopping the run easier because of the personnel on the field. Furthermore, it allows a bit more ease for Sam Williams to rush the passer. Sort of like having a Charles Haley and a DWare both going at the QB at the same time. The secondary's job would be much easier.

I'll repeat what I just posted in another thread:

4-3 and 3-4 are outdated concepts. Most modern defenses (Except Marinelli's) are more complex than can be described by those terms.
- It would be much better to think of those in 3 digit terms: DL - Edge - LB
- i.e. 3-4 = 3-2-2 and 4-3 = 2-2-3

Even as simple concepts, most fans don't understand the difference in 3-4 vs 4-3.

Fans think 3-4 is a pass defense but in reality it is a run defense.
- The difference in 3-4 vs 4-3 in terms of players is that the 4-3 SLB (240) is removed and the 3-4 NT (320+) is added.
- The OLB in the 3-4 are normally players that play DE in a 4-2-5 Nickel (i.e. They're really small DEs not big LBs).
- That means that the 3-4 is really a 5-2 with stand-up DEs.

It is not possible to play Nickel from a true 3-4 defense.
- Teams that play 3-4 base normally play 4-2-5 Nickel in obvious passing situations.
- Modern defenses average over 70% of snaps in Nickel.

Dan Quinn played a multiple front defense in 2021.
- The primary defense was a 4-2-5 Nickel (2-2-2-5).
- The next most used defense was Big Nickel (3 Safeties) with Kearse in a hybrid LB role.
- A 4 digit designation would be even better: DL - Edge - LB - CB
- Then Nickel = 2-2-2-3 and Big Nickel = 2-2-2-2
- Quinn's DT version of the Big Nickel looked similar to a 3-4.

MP=Micah Parson
sDE = Stand-Up DE

Big Nickel with DTs
.....MP.....DT.....DT.....DT.....sDE
.....................LB...........................Nickel DB = Kearse

Nickel with extra DEs (Often with DL next to MP, Gregory at sDE and Armstrong inside of Gregory).
.....MP.....DE.....DT.....DE.....sDE
.....................LB...........................Nickel DB = CB Lewis

Nickel (MP=Edge)
.....MP.....DE.....DT.....DT.....sDE
.....................LB...........................Nickel DB = CB Lewis

Nickel (MP=LB)
......DE.....DT.....DT.....sDE
..........MP..................LB..............Nickel DB = CB Lewis

5-man DL
.....sDE.....DE.....DT.....DE.....sDE
..........................MP..........................Nickel DB

 

[Chuck 54]

Tank is a great DE vs the run, but imo, no way he can play the 3-4 DE inside shoulder of the OT. He’s not nearly big enough. I’d see him as more of a stand up pass rusher like Greg Ellis if we moved to the 3-4.
However, I don’t see this happening at all. You need two thumpers at Inside LB, and we don’t have even one unless you think LVE is an inside thumper.

 

[Captain43Crash]

First thought - here is our annual let’s move to a 3-4 thread

second thought

osa and tank as 5 techs is absolutely a disaster - let’s put this dumb idea to rest

Wake up!

What you think is dumb most fans, and more importantly, coaches think is smart.

 

[Flamma]

Oh, and I like the mixing of the 3-4 and 4-3. I think switching between them 1. Makes us versatile and 2 difficult to prepare against. Also, I think Quinn ran a lot of the 3-4 in Seattle as I recall. I would favor the 3-4 with Williams and Parsons because the oline would be much too overpowered. Considering the QBs we play this year with Rodgers, this would be a very handy way at getting after Rodgers. Imagine Rodgers' face when he sees Parsons and Williams coming after him at the same time

Yeah. I never liked the 3-4, but you can't deny some of the advantages we'd have using that from time to time given our LB situation. It pretty much lets Parsons play like Lawrence Taylor at will.

 

[Pass2Run]

I'll repeat what I just posted in another thread:

4-3 and 3-4 are outdated concepts. Most modern defenses (Except Marinelli's) are more complex than can be described by those terms.
- It would be much better to think of those in 3 digit terms: DL - Edge - LB
- i.e. 3-4 = 3-2-2 and 4-3 = 2-2-3

Even as simple concepts, most fans don't understand the difference in 3-4 vs 4-3.

Fans think 3-4 is a pass defense but in reality it is a run defense.
- The difference in 3-4 vs 4-3 in terms of players is that the 4-3 SLB (240) is removed and the 3-4 NT (320+) is added.
- The OLB in the 3-4 are normally players that play DE in a 4-2-5 Nickel (i.e. They're really small DEs not big LBs).
- That means that the 3-4 is really a 5-2 with stand-up DEs.

It is not possible to play Nickel from a true 3-4 defense.
- Teams that play 3-4 base normally play 4-2-5 Nickel in obvious passing situations.
- Modern defenses average over 70% of snaps in Nickel.

Dan Quinn played a multiple front defense in 2021.
- The primary defense was a 4-2-5 Nickel (2-2-2-5).
- The next most used defense was Big Nickel (3 Safeties) with Kearse in a hybrid LB role.
- A 4 digit designation would be even better: DL - Edge - LB - CB
- Then Nickel = 2-2-2-3 and Big Nickel = 2-2-2-2
- Quinn's DT version of the Big Nickel looked similar to a 3-4.

MP=Micah Parson
sDE = Stand-Up DE

Big Nickel with DTs
.....MP.....DT.....DT.....DT.....sDE
.....................LB...........................Nickel DB = Kearse

Nickel with extra DEs (Often with DL next to MP, Gregory at sDE and Armstrong inside of Gregory).
.....MP.....DE.....DT.....DE.....sDE
.....................LB...........................Nickel DB = CB Lewis

Nickel (MP=Edge)
.....MP.....DE.....DT.....DT.....sDE
.....................LB...........................Nickel DB = CB Lewis

Nickel (MP=LB)
......DE.....DT.....DT.....sDE
..........MP..................LB..............Nickel DB = CB Lewis

5-man DL
.....sDE.....DE.....DT.....DE.....sDE
..........................MP..........................Nickel DB

Good post.

 

[blueblood70]

I think switching to a more through hybrid/proper 3-4 may be smart for the defence. They're built for it imo. I'd have, just picturing it in my head, Gallimore or Osa rotating, John Ridgeway or Bohanna, and Tank Lawrence on the Dline. Then I'd have Sam Williams on one end and Parsons on the other end of LB, we'd then have LVE and Cox at the interior LB position.

I think this may be a deadly way to deal with those two. Firstly, having that Dline lineup means the oline can't really try to double team anyone for starters because those dlinemen are very strong pass rushers in their own right. Secondly, they're also very good run stoppers, and they are very good (especially Ridgeway) at being able to push the oline back as he swallows the blocks making the RB have to hesitate. This would allow LVE and Cox to get him down on the backfield. As for the pass bit, even if the oline wanted to try to double team, they can't. Double team Parsons or LVE, and the other basically has free run at the QB and are men on a mission. Also, the defence seems to be built to handle more of the 3-4 with the players we have.

At least in my head, the way I see it is the players I mentioned would make it incredibly difficult for the QB to get the pass off, and it'll make stopping the run easier because of the personnel on the field. Furthermore, it allows a bit more ease for Sam Williams to rush the passer. Sort of like having a Charles Haley and a DWare both going at the QB at the same time. The secondary's job would be much easier.

pretty sure Quinn has that covered..they arent taking notes from fans at this point..he didnt run one style last year..hes got it covered..

 

[john van brocklin]

I think switching to a more through hybrid/proper 3-4 may be smart for the defence. They're built for it imo. I'd have, just picturing it in my head, Gallimore or Osa rotating, John Ridgeway or Bohanna, and Tank Lawrence on the Dline. Then I'd have Sam Williams on one end and Parsons on the other end of LB, we'd then have LVE and Cox at the interior LB position.

I think this may be a deadly way to deal with those two. Firstly, having that Dline lineup means the oline can't really try to double team anyone for starters because those dlinemen are very strong pass rushers in their own right. Secondly, they're also very good run stoppers, and they are very good (especially Ridgeway) at being able to push the oline back as he swallows the blocks making the RB have to hesitate. This would allow LVE and Cox to get him down on the backfield. As for the pass bit, even if the oline wanted to try to double team, they can't. Double team Parsons or LVE, and the other basically has free run at the QB and are men on a mission. Also, the defence seems to be built to handle more of the 3-4 with the players we have.

At least in my head, the way I see it is the players I mentioned would make it incredibly difficult for the QB to get the pass off, and it'll make stopping the run easier because of the personnel on the field. Furthermore, it allows a bit more ease for Sam Williams to rush the passer. Sort of like having a Charles Haley and a DWare both going at the QB at the same time. The secondary's job would be much easier.

Do we have enough quality linebackers?

 

[Jfconrow]

I’d do the same think only Keep Parsons at ILB and tank at OLB, like a Greg Ellis type.