CFZ Why I think the team should switch to a 3-4

[Majic]

Didn't Parcells have us in a 3-4?

He certainly did and Glenn was a great signing by Bill

 

[RustyBourneHorse]

He certainly did and Glenn was a great signing by Bill

Yes, and that was where DWare had his success. He was lethal in the 3-4, and Parsons has the makings of another DWare. It was why I was thinking leaning a bit towards a 3-4 base (obviously mixing defences, but this would be the base I'd use) would be smart. Especially since we also now have Sam Williams, which would make double teaming Sam or Parsons a very bad idea.

 

[Majic]

Yes, and that was where DWare had his success. He was lethal in the 3-4, and Parsons has the makings of another DWare. It was why I was thinking leaning a bit towards a 3-4 base (obviously mixing defences, but this would be the base I'd use) would be smart. Especially since we also now have Sam Williams, which would make double teaming Sam or Parsons a very bad idea.

I'm with you on this, makes sense to me.

 

[RustyBourneHorse]

I'm with you on this, makes sense to me.

Also, as I remember, DWare would use the 3-4 to find the weaker tackle or tight end, end then beat that tackle or tight end like a drum. Now we basically have a possible DWare in Parsons and another monster pass rusher in Sam Williams who looks to be more of a 3-4 OLB to me. It'd be foolish to me to not use every tool available, including using the 3-4 more, to take advantage of their skills.

 

[CATCH17]

Everyone is running Nickel. Stop worrying about base packages.

 

[RustyBourneHorse]

Everyone is running Nickel. Stop worrying about base packages.

However we can make the most of Parsons' and Sam's pass rush ability, the better.

 

[Mobinvans]

99% of the team teams are running 3wr

Nickel defense is where we need to focus

 

[RustyBourneHorse]

99% of the team teams are running 3wr

Nickel defense is where we need to focus

Perhaps there might be a sort of 3-4 Nickel hybrid to where Sam and Micah can rotate to find the weaker blocker.

 

[john van brocklin]

Not in the middle.

That's my concern

 

[xwalker]

Didn't Parcells have us in a 3-4?

Parcells stayed with 4-3 for his first 2 seasons in Dallas because he had kept D-Coordinator Mike Zimmer.

Parcells first season was 2003.

• Cowboys Defensive Rankings:
  • 2003: 1st in points allowed (2nd in yards allowed).
  • 2004: 4th in points allowed.
  • 2005: 12th in points allowed (1st season in 3-4)
  • 2006: 20th in points allowed.

 

[jterrell]

For the love of all that is holy, stop pretending it is 1995.
There is no 4-3 vs 3-4 debate anymore.
Teams play 6 in the front now.

Being multiple means you either have 3 or 4 Down linemen still but it's all relative as the 4th usually will be a pass rushing linebacker who is no longer some 3-4 OLB that rushed 90% of the time or just drops into zones when he isn;t rushing as a change up.
Now that 4th DL can be Micah Parsons; an ILB.

Dallas has zero incentive to move to any other concept and most especially one that relies on more LB.
Quinn has this figured out and the draft was just to bolster the multiple design he put in behind Parsons.

 

[gimmesix]

First thought - here is our annual let’s move to a 3-4 thread

second thought

osa and tank as 5 techs is absolutely a disaster - let’s put this dumb idea to rest

In the pseudo-3-4, Lawrence is more of a DPR/OLB. Watkins played NT probably because we didn't have anyone else who could consistently handle it. The hope is either Ridgeway or Bohanna can, so we can move Watkins to 5-tech. If Gallimore keeps getting bigger, we may see him as a possibility at NT as well. If not, we'll probably play him at 3-tech. I disagree with Odighizuwa being a disaster at 5-tech, and that may be where he ends up in that scheme, but he's a 3-tech fit as well. Golston appears to have beefed up and could be a 5-tech option as well. I think it's likely that Armstrong ends up out there mainly at the other "OLB" spot because Fowler and Williams aren't considered the best run defenders.

So essentially, Quinn's 3-4 has:

5-tech: Watkins/Odighizuwa/Golston
1-tech: Ridgeway/Watkins/Bohanna
3-tech: Gallimore/Odighizuwa/Hill

OLB Armstrong/Williams
ILB Vander Esch
ILB Parsons
OLB Lawrence/Basham

Nickel

DE Fowler/Williams
DL: Odighizuwa/Golston
DL: Gallimore/Hill
DE: Lawrence

LB: Cox
LB: Parsons
LB/S: Kearse

Parsons often will creep up to the line as a pass rusher with one of the linemen or OLBs dropping into short zone coverage.

 

[quickccc]

Quinn plays a hybrid 4-3, 3-4 look anyway, and he shifts his linemen in different gaps. I am sure you will see a lot of 3-4 looks this year. it takes a couple or three years to get the right players to be able to play a scheme. so with Parson, Williams, Cox and the two big NT type DTs, he has the players to pull off many looks. imagine Ridgeway, Bohanna, Lawrence and Williams/Golston on the line on running downs.

that's a tough line to run on, then you switch to OSa, Gallimore, Fowler/williams, Lawrence and parsons roaming back there, williams could rush from stand up position or hands down. the more looks you give an offense to prepare for, the harder it is for them to prepare for it. I like the hybrid look more than just being 4-3 or 3-4 alone.

Bohanna was mediocre as a rookie, never showed flashes that he will be a run factor next year- so it's too much a long shot. Ridgeway was a rookie that hasn't
played a single down at the NFL level, so we dunno what he will do in his rookie year. He may even need to be a player with a peanut butter offseason before he
can impact the game. - Watkins is average to decent, Gallimore and Hill lack experience and still developmental mode.
There's just no established run stuffer right off the bat.

i keep hearing hybrid 3-4 and 4-3 .. but from what i understood we play 70% in the nickel base 5-2 set.

 

[jrumann59]

The NFL trend now is not to nail yourself down with one particular scheme- 4-3 or 3-4. The dominant passing game offenses have made defensive coordinators be very creative in deployment of personnel.

Defenses are becoming more like monster back defenses where you have guy that can either bump back to cover LB or move up and be rusher or move from a LB role to coverage DB role.

 

[DanA]

Our primary edge players like Lawrence, Armstrong, Folwer Jnr and Basham make us a poor fit to predominantly play 3-4 defense. But as others have said, we already have been running a hybrid system and I've got no doubt that with Parsons and the options at DT that we intend to continue playing some 3-4 in our hybrid system.

 

[noshame]

Naming a alignment isn't really important anymore it's the overall scheme and the design of attack that matters. Putting packages together that use everybody's best talents is is the way to fly.

 

[cowboyschmps3]

I think switching to a more through hybrid/proper 3-4 may be smart for the defence. They're built for it imo. I'd have, just picturing it in my head, Gallimore or Osa rotating, John Ridgeway or Bohanna, and Tank Lawrence on the Dline. Then I'd have Sam Williams on one end and Parsons on the other end of LB, we'd then have LVE and Cox at the interior LB position.

I think this may be a deadly way to deal with those two. Firstly, having that Dline lineup means the oline can't really try to double team anyone for starters because those dlinemen are very strong pass rushers in their own right. Secondly, they're also very good run stoppers, and they are very good (especially Ridgeway) at being able to push the oline back as he swallows the blocks making the RB have to hesitate. This would allow LVE and Cox to get him down on the backfield. As for the pass bit, even if the oline wanted to try to double team, they can't. Double team Parsons or LVE, and the other basically has free run at the QB and are men on a mission. Also, the defence seems to be built to handle more of the 3-4 with the players we have.

At least in my head, the way I see it is the players I mentioned would make it incredibly difficult for the QB to get the pass off, and it'll make stopping the run easier because of the personnel on the field. Furthermore, it allows a bit more ease for Sam Williams to rush the passer. Sort of like having a Charles Haley and a DWare both going at the QB at the same time. The secondary's job would be much easier.

I think we are fine with the hybrid looks Quinn brings. If it ain’t broke don’t break it. Year 2 for Dan Quinn getting the guys he needs in place. 4-3 over 4-3 under. He does do some 3-4 action here and there depending on opponent.

 

[thunderpimp91]

Perhaps there might be a sort of 3-4 Nickel hybrid to where Sam and Micah can rotate to find the weaker blocker.

The Cowboys already run a 3-3-5 look pretty often, which I believe is what you are referring to. It has three down lineman play two gaps then bring a 4th rusher from the second level. You can move Parsons around pretty much wherever you want here.

A true 3-4 is probably the worst thing you can do for a guy like Parsons. A 3-4 is more focused on stopping the run than the pass. I really like the Cowboys using him as an MLB and letting him play DE a few times per game. Parsons can be put in several different positions with the Cowboys current scheme. Give them another offseason to build around him, and I'm sure they will get more creative.

 

[fivetwos]

For the love of all that is holy, stop pretending it is 1995.
There is no 4-3 vs 3-4 debate anymore.
Teams play 6 in the front now.

Being multiple means you either have 3 or 4 Down linemen still but it's all relative as the 4th usually will be a pass rushing linebacker who is no longer some 3-4 OLB that rushed 90% of the time or just drops into zones when he isn;t rushing as a change up.
Now that 4th DL can be Micah Parsons; an ILB.

Dallas has zero incentive to move to any other concept and most especially one that relies on more LB.
Quinn has this figured out and the draft was just to bolster the multiple design he put in behind Parsons.

Agree with your overall point, and you can run XO circles around me so it's not that, but it sure looked like Wade Phillips was running a traditional 34 defense here during his tenure.

I think the 34/43 thing went out the window with the rule changes which opened up scoring so every housewife in America wanted a fantasy team.

The memory ain't what it once was lol, but maybe 2012 on that?

 

[RustyBourneHorse]

The Cowboys already run a 3-3-5 look pretty often, which I believe is what you are referring to. It has three down lineman play two gaps then bring a 4th rusher from the second level. You can move Parsons around pretty much wherever you want here.

A true 3-4 is probably the worst thing you can do for a guy like Parsons. A 3-4 is more focused on stopping the run than the pass. I really like the Cowboys using him as an MLB and letting him play DE a few times per game. Parsons can be put in several different positions with the Cowboys current scheme. Give them another offseason to build around him, and I'm sure they will get more creative.

Good points, then yes, I like the 3-3-5