CFZ Why I think the team should switch to a 3-4

[RustyBourneHorse]

Do we have enough quality linebackers?

Not sure. I would say definitely next year when Clark returns.

 

[xwalker]

I think switching to a more through hybrid/proper 3-4 may be smart for the defence. They're built for it imo. I'd have, just picturing it in my head, Gallimore or Osa rotating, John Ridgeway or Bohanna, and Tank Lawrence on the Dline. Then I'd have Sam Williams on one end and Parsons on the other end of LB, we'd then have LVE and Cox at the interior LB position.

I think this may be a deadly way to deal with those two. Firstly, having that Dline lineup means the oline can't really try to double team anyone for starters because those dlinemen are very strong pass rushers in their own right. Secondly, they're also very good run stoppers, and they are very good (especially Ridgeway) at being able to push the oline back as he swallows the blocks making the RB have to hesitate. This would allow LVE and Cox to get him down on the backfield. As for the pass bit, even if the oline wanted to try to double team, they can't. Double team Parsons or LVE, and the other basically has free run at the QB and are men on a mission. Also, the defence seems to be built to handle more of the 3-4 with the players we have.

At least in my head, the way I see it is the players I mentioned would make it incredibly difficult for the QB to get the pass off, and it'll make stopping the run easier because of the personnel on the field. Furthermore, it allows a bit more ease for Sam Williams to rush the passer. Sort of like having a Charles Haley and a DWare both going at the QB at the same time. The secondary's job would be much easier.

Keep in mind that in the modern era, NFL offenses averaged about 70% of snaps with 3 or more WRs.

Defenses primarily play Nickel vs 3 WR sets and against some 2 TE sets because many modern TEs are just over-sized WRs.

Some offenses have averaged 90%.
- The 2021 Rams averaged 90% with 3 or more WRs.

For 2021, the 49ers are the only team listed as playing 3 WR sets less than 50% of snaps.
- However, when WR Deebo Samuel lines up at RB, he is considered a RB in those stats.
- i.e. Their actual percent of snaps with 3 WRs is well over 50%.

3-4
.....Edge.....DL.....NT.....DL.....Edge
.................ILB.................ILB

3-3-5 Nickel
.....Edge.....DL.....DL....DL.....Edge
.................LB..................................Nickel DB

4-2-5 Nickel
..........Edge.....DL......DL.....Edge
...................LB................LB..................Nickel DB

 

[fivetwos]

I think switching to a more through hybrid/proper 3-4 may be smart for the defence. They're built for it imo. I'd have, just picturing it in my head, Gallimore or Osa rotating, John Ridgeway or Bohanna, and Tank Lawrence on the Dline. Then I'd have Sam Williams on one end and Parsons on the other end of LB, we'd then have LVE and Cox at the interior LB position.

I think this may be a deadly way to deal with those two. Firstly, having that Dline lineup means the oline can't really try to double team anyone for starters because those dlinemen are very strong pass rushers in their own right. Secondly, they're also very good run stoppers, and they are very good (especially Ridgeway) at being able to push the oline back as he swallows the blocks making the RB have to hesitate. This would allow LVE and Cox to get him down on the backfield. As for the pass bit, even if the oline wanted to try to double team, they can't. Double team Parsons or LVE, and the other basically has free run at the QB and are men on a mission. Also, the defence seems to be built to handle more of the 3-4 with the players we have.

At least in my head, the way I see it is the players I mentioned would make it incredibly difficult for the QB to get the pass off, and it'll make stopping the run easier because of the personnel on the field. Furthermore, it allows a bit more ease for Sam Williams to rush the passer. Sort of like having a Charles Haley and a DWare both going at the QB at the same time. The secondary's job would be much easier.

Like MM has said more than once, he does not want a "one call" defense.

I think mixing things up and confusing offenses is the best thing we can possibly do.

Unfortunately the timing was wrong and we couldn't land DQ in MMs first year, but we got him now.

I truly think this defense will be special and will carry the team this year. Problem is the league isn't built to win it all via that method. I'm equally concerned about about offense on several fronts but that's another discussion.

 

[xwalker]

5-1 is just one variation of the Nickel, usually.

And we're totally moving to a 3-4, although I don't think we totally abandon the 4-3.

Quinn rarely, if ever played a 4-3 or true 3-4.

The 3 LBs in 2021 were Parsons, LVE and Neal.
- LVE and Neal rarely played together unless Parsons played as a true DE.
- i.e. Only 2 true LBs on the field.
- Parsons only played as a true DE a few snaps per game except for the 4 games when he started at DE.
- The majority of his Edge rushes were as a LB (i.e. Snaps when there were 4 DL on the field).

Quinn already played a multi-front Defense in 2021.
- They're not 'moving' to anything.
- It's just a matter of altering the percentages of snaps played in specific formations & personnel groupings.

Nickel & Big Nickel were and will remain the primary personnel groupings.

A true 3-4 front 5 has generally has DEs that are 290+.
- They used this on some 3rd & 1 or goalline type plays, but that's only about 1 or 2 percent of the snaps.
.....Parsons.....DT.....DT.....DT.....sDE
...................LB........................LB

This was a common alignment with their Big Nickel personnel:
- It 'looks' similar to a 3-4 with Gregory normally standing up but DLaw@6-3, 265 is not a 3-4 DE.
.....Parsons.....DLaw.....DT.....DT.....Gregory
.......................LB...........................................Nickel DB = Kearse

 

[xwalker]

Tank is a great DE vs the run, but imo, no way he can play the 3-4 DE inside shoulder of the OT. He’s not nearly big enough. I’d see him as more of a stand up pass rusher like Greg Ellis if we moved to the 3-4.
However, I don’t see this happening at all. You need two thumpers at Inside LB, and we don’t have even one unless you think LVE is an inside thumper.

You can't play Nickel in a 3-4 or 4-3...

They played the vast majority of snaps in 2021 with either Nickel (3 CBs) or Big Nickel (3 Safeties) personnel.

 

[JBS]

Wake up!

What you think is dumb most fans, and more importantly, coaches think is smart.

Yeah they think it’s so smart they don’t do it!!! Brilliant post

 

[john van brocklin]

Not sure. I would say definitely next year when Clark returns.

There Ya go!

 

[john van brocklin]

The NFL trend now is not to nail yourself down with one particular scheme- 4-3 or 3-4. The dominant passing game offenses have made defensive coordinators be very creative in deployment of personnel.

Truth
Situational substitution is the rage.

 

[CowboyRoy]

I think switching to a more through hybrid/proper 3-4 may be smart for the defence. They're built for it imo. I'd have, just picturing it in my head, Gallimore or Osa rotating, John Ridgeway or Bohanna, and Tank Lawrence on the Dline. Then I'd have Sam Williams on one end and Parsons on the other end of LB, we'd then have LVE and Cox at the interior LB position.

I think this may be a deadly way to deal with those two. Firstly, having that Dline lineup means the oline can't really try to double team anyone for starters because those dlinemen are very strong pass rushers in their own right. Secondly, they're also very good run stoppers, and they are very good (especially Ridgeway) at being able to push the oline back as he swallows the blocks making the RB have to hesitate. This would allow LVE and Cox to get him down on the backfield. As for the pass bit, even if the oline wanted to try to double team, they can't. Double team Parsons or LVE, and the other basically has free run at the QB and are men on a mission. Also, the defence seems to be built to handle more of the 3-4 with the players we have.

At least in my head, the way I see it is the players I mentioned would make it incredibly difficult for the QB to get the pass off, and it'll make stopping the run easier because of the personnel on the field. Furthermore, it allows a bit more ease for Sam Williams to rush the passer. Sort of like having a Charles Haley and a DWare both going at the QB at the same time. The secondary's job would be much easier.

 

[CowboyRoy]

We have the linebackers/DE's for it, but we dont have the lineman for it. All of our good DT's are on the small side.

 

[CowboyRoy]

We have the linebackers/DE's for it, but we dont have the lineman for it. All of our good DT's are on the small side.

And we actually dont have enough linebackers for it.

 

[CowboyRoy]

Wake up!

What you think is dumb most fans, and more importantly, coaches think is smart.

Cowboys dont have the personnel to properly run the 3-4. Nothing to do with fans liking it, the coaches have to like it and the coaches understand they dont have the horses for 3-4 as a base unit. They would have drafted a DT, not a DE in the 2nd round if they were making the 3-4 switch.

 

[jnday]

Tank is a great DE vs the run, but imo, no way he can play the 3-4 DE inside shoulder of the OT. He’s not nearly big enough. I’d see him as more of a stand up pass rusher like Greg Ellis if we moved to the 3-4.
However, I don’t see this happening at all. You need two thumpers at Inside LB, and we don’t have even one unless you think LVE is an inside thumper.

He would be a LB and I doubt that he would be as good as Spencer when he played.

 

[RustyBourneHorse]

Like MM has said more than once, he does not want a "one call" defense.

I think mixing things up and confusing offenses is the best thing we can possibly do.

Unfortunately the timing was wrong and we couldn't land DQ in MMs first year, but we got him now.

I truly think this defense will be special and will carry the team this year. Problem is the league isn't built to win it all via that method. I'm equally concerned about about offense on several fronts but that's another discussion.

I agree, and I want a multidefence. I just think leaning a bit more to the 3-4 would be good. Sorta like a switch hitter can hit both ways, but they prefer some options.

 

[Typhus]

Quinn plays a hybrid 4-3, 3-4 look anyway, and he shifts his linemen in different gaps. I am sure you will see a lot of 3-4 looks this year. it takes a couple or three years to get the right players to be able to play a scheme. so with Parson, Williams, Cox and the two big NT type DTs, he has the players to pull off many looks. imagine Ridgeway, Bohanna, Lawrence and Williams/Golston on the line on running downs. that's a tough line to run on, then you switch to OSa, Gallimore, Fowler/williams, Lawrence and parsons roaming back there, williams could rush from stand up position or hands down. the more looks you give an offense to prepare for, the harder it is for them to prepare for it. I like the hybrid look more than just being 4-3 or 3-4 alone.

Exactly, he is just now getting his necessary pieces in place, bringing in Neal and the other safeties las year was only foreshadowing of the transitional defense that he wants to build, and the pieces are only now really starting to fall into place.
Getting a returning Jabril Cox back healthy is a nice return from last years draft class, and if Mukuamu and Wright can grab a role then its going to be a great draft class.
Some rooks on this roster could bounce Mukuamu, and Wright if they arent bringing it.

 

[Maxmadden]

We run a 3Fifty. Not a 4-3 and not a 3-4 but a 3.50 - 3.50 split.

 

[Loso86]

I think switching to a more through hybrid/proper 3-4 may be smart for the defence. They're built for it imo. I'd have, just picturing it in my head, Gallimore or Osa rotating, John Ridgeway or Bohanna, and Tank Lawrence on the Dline. Then I'd have Sam Williams on one end and Parsons on the other end of LB, we'd then have LVE and Cox at the interior LB position.

I think this may be a deadly way to deal with those two. Firstly, having that Dline lineup means the oline can't really try to double team anyone for starters because those dlinemen are very strong pass rushers in their own right. Secondly, they're also very good run stoppers, and they are very good (especially Ridgeway) at being able to push the oline back as he swallows the blocks making the RB have to hesitate. This would allow LVE and Cox to get him down on the backfield. As for the pass bit, even if the oline wanted to try to double team, they can't. Double team Parsons or LVE, and the other basically has free run at the QB and are men on a mission. Also, the defence seems to be built to handle more of the 3-4 with the players we have.

At least in my head, the way I see it is the players I mentioned would make it incredibly difficult for the QB to get the pass off, and it'll make stopping the run easier because of the personnel on the field. Furthermore, it allows a bit more ease for Sam Williams to rush the passer. Sort of like having a Charles Haley and a DWare both going at the QB at the same time. The secondary's job would be much easier.

It really doesn't matter what the base in, the better Defenses can just switch it up and run whatever

 

[Majic]

If you look at the NFL as a whole there is definitely a move towards a more 3-4 looks. Teams like the Vikings (who clearly have had enough of Mike Zimmer's Scheme), the Raiders and the Eagles are moving in that direction as are the Seahawks. Perhaps surprisingly under Arron Glenn (a Parcells disciple) the Lions are expecting to run more of a 4 man line as he thinks that suits the roster. But overall the 3-4 is the most popular scheme.

 

[BAT]

Do we have enough quality linebackers?

Not in the middle.

 

[RustyBourneHorse]

If you look at the NFL as a whole there is definitely a move towards a more 3-4 looks. Teams like the Vikings (who clearly have had enough of Mike Zimmer's Scheme), the Raiders and the Eagles are moving in that direction as are the Seahawks. Perhaps surprisingly under Arron Glenn (a Parcells disciple) the Lions are expecting to run more of a 4 man line as he thinks that suits the roster. But overall the 3-4 is the most popular scheme.

Didn't Parcells have us in a 3-4?