Recap: Bobby Belt on Kelvin Joseph

[G2]

The last part of your post was my point in barging into this thread. Lots of people were predisposed to thinking negatively about Joseph the minute after we drafted him as soon as they found out he also had an interest in rapping. That's why I brought up the outrage around here of him not being at practice last year only to find out it was excused because he wanted to attend a funeral. That was proof positive of where people stood before he did anything on the field. People in the media are paid to study consumer sentiment and make their money by speaking to it so if they know there's a ton of people that really, really want to believe something, I wouldn't put it past them to do stories in reverse, i.e., "let me see if I can find out there what people want to hear," and thus "sources" are found. Some can be true of course but the landscape of media itself isn't some pristine thing as we all know. Heck, this story itself is in the rear view. As someone else just said, where is Joseph's mind and attitude now if this was true?

FYI - any criticism I've given him about his rap skills is warranted because it's awful. It has nothing to do with being a trash human or a troubled young mad or whatever dots you're again trying to connect. I support anyone who has the creative ability, IF they're good at it.
But you probably haven't even listened just like you haven't researched and of the journalists' material. Trashing the messenger is lazy.

 

[BourbonBalz]

The last part of your post was my point in barging into this thread. Lots of people were predisposed to thinking negatively about Joseph the minute after we drafted him as soon as they found out he also had an interest in rapping. That's why I brought up the outrage around here of him not being at practice last year only to find out it was excused because he wanted to attend a funeral. That was proof positive of where people stood before he did anything on the field. People in the media are paid to study consumer sentiment and make their money by speaking to it so if they know there's a ton of people that really, really want to believe something, I wouldn't put it past them to do stories in reverse, i.e., "let me see if I can find out there what people want to hear," and thus "sources" are found. Some can be true of course but the landscape of media itself isn't some pristine thing as we all know. Heck, this story itself is in the rear view. As someone else just said, where is Joseph's mind and attitude now if this was true?

Well let’s be honest. Rappers and the rap business doesn’t exactly have a stellar reputation in general. Personally I couldn’t care less as long as football is his top priority and he keeps his act clean. He isn’t exactly off to a good start in that regard.

 

[MarcusRock]

FYI - any criticism I've given him about his rap skills is warranted because it's awful. It has nothing to do with being a trash human or a troubled young mad or whatever dots you're again trying to connect. I support anyone who has the creative ability, IF they're good at it.
But you probably haven't even listened just like you haven't researched and of the journalists' material. Trashing the messenger is lazy.

There are no dots to connect or leaps to make. As I said, the attitude around here about what turned out to be Joseph's excused absence to attend a funeral said it all. It was proof positive of what was in people already when it came to him. No "sources" were necessary. The people provided their own quotes. They were Kneejerk Nellies who didn't investigate, didn't ask why, and just rolled with their own preconceived bias. What's lazier than that?

I couldn't care less about the quality of Joseph's rapping. That's not my issue here. What you call trashing the messenger is me actually bringing up the environment in which he works. An environment that people around here swear up and down is not to be trusted .... until they say what you believe. Then it's legit all of a sudden. Same with all these Dak ranking threads. He's top 10, see? No, he's not top 10, see? And forgive me for not listening to a radio station that's about 1,500 miles away from where I live, or scouring his Twitter for his takes. You said he doesn't do things for clicks while working in the media. My take is that's unlikely seeing as the clicks and those that tune in are how he makes his living in the realm of the media who "can't be trusted" .... until they can. That's a lot of words instead of saying, "grain of salt."

 

[MarcusRock]

Well let’s be honest. Rappers and the rap business doesn’t exactly have a stellar reputation in general. Personally I couldn’t care less as long as football is his top priority and he keeps his act clean. He isn’t exactly off to a good start in that regard.

Reputation shouldn't lead to the shortcut of prejudging someone before they've done anything or assuming the worst about what they've done before having all the details. Then of course there's the background of what actually led to the reputation in the first place and whether its justified or at least part fear projection but that's a heavier lift than the subject of this thread. Agree on wanting Joseph to get his act together on the field and have his personal life complement that instead of affecting it negatively.

 

[Rayman70]

High risk low reward pick. This was throwing darts blind.

 

[I need 6]

I didn’t argue a specific level of involvement. I just said involved. He was in a car with people who shot and killed someone and then didn’t tell authorities about it until he had no choice.

That tells me a lot about his character. Independent of what his criminal liability, if any, might be.

What does it tell you about his character? One can actually be a decent person and have associates that are not. These are young people from circumstances that need time to develop maturity. We are judging individuals whose brains are fully developed by our standards as mature adults.

I am sure you never did anything wrong when you were 23. I sure wouldn't want to be judged by some of the mistakes I made at that age.

 

[G2]

There are no dots to connect or leaps to make. As I said, the attitude around here about what turned out to be Joseph's excused absence to attend a funeral said it all. It was proof positive of what was in people already when it came to him. No "sources" were necessary. The people provided their own quotes. They were Kneejerk Nellies who didn't investigate, didn't ask why, and just rolled with their own preconceived bias. What's lazier than that?

You're generalizing and ignoring what I've been saying. So it's just like any other attempt at a discussion.
I never mentioned missing practice. No one cares about that ONE detail.
In fact, I said family comes first. I think it's a disingenuous angle as there are other things fans are more concerned with.
You keep repeating yourself with the kneejerk and I'm not sure you know what that means. A journalist who's familiar with the team, along with others laid it out. Just because you demand "sources" doesn't make it untrue. It makes it lazy considering there's a history already of negative decisions & because you haven't researched his content.

Actions speak louder that the words.

Here's how it will go: KJ starts for the season or he doesn't. What's you guess?

 

[G2]

What does it tell you about his character? One can actually be a decent person and have associates that are not.

That he's not equipped with common sense and makes poor choices.

 

[I need 6]

That he's not equipped with common sense and makes poor choices.

Did you make poor choices when you were young?

 

[Pass2Run]

FYI - any criticism I've given him about his rap skills is warranted because it's awful. It has nothing to do with being a trash human or a troubled young mad or whatever dots you're again trying to connect. I support anyone who has the creative ability, IF they're good at it.
But you probably haven't even listened just like you haven't researched and of the journalists' material. Trashing the messenger is lazy.

Actually, he's not that bad. Some of his stuff is very raw, but if you listen to almost any really young artist, it's like that. He actually has a few good ones, mixed with some not so good tracks. He's not totally without talent, especially if he keeps working at it. To me, if he were to approach it the right way and use that as his outlet when he's not playing football, being into music could actually be beneficial to his career.

He wouldn't be the only football player to play or sing on the side.

 

[MarcusRock]

You're generalizing and ignoring what I've been saying. So it's just like any other attempt at a discussion.
I never mentioned missing practice. No one cares about that ONE detail.
In fact, I said family comes first. I think it's a disingenuous angle as there are other things fans are more concerned with.
You keep repeating yourself with the kneejerk and I'm not sure you know what that means. A journalist who's familiar with the team, along with others laid it out. Just because you demand "sources" doesn't make it untrue. It makes it lazy considering there's a history already of negative decisions & because you haven't researched his content.

Actions speak louder that the words.

Here's how it will go: KJ starts for the season or he doesn't. What's you guess?

Are you forgetting that it was you who engaged me on this topic? My point from the very beginning is that Joseph has never gotten the benefit of the doubt and that the actual subject of the thread is stuff people want to believe some because of preconceived ideas about him, so they believe it. I'm not generalizing. Joseph's excused absence from practice was met with outrage before investigation right here on CowboysZone. I bring it up because it is absolute proof of my point. When one debates a topic, support is highly desirable and I've got that.

Your engagement of me was that "the truth" was coming out from the team and staff. I told you we don't know jack because we're hearing this 3rd hand and all and again provided examples to support why a guy in the media might not be the best for considering his 3rd hand account as "the truth," especially considering my example above where people kneejerked before knowing "the truth." I also asked you for quotes from the team and staff so we didn't have to rely on the he said, she said from a media guy and in the place of crickets was met with accusations of trying to change the topic as you changed the topic to "but, but, the drive-by though." Not the subject of this thread nor my take on the subject of this thread. So if you want to believe the media guy because he's not like the other media meanies and thus don't have to investigate whether what he says is actually " the truth," then have at it. The media counts on people doing that. Why? Because they know people are lazy and want what they want. So they give it to them and it's digested, no questions asked. Sometimes I ask questions.

 

[Rayman70]

Did you make poor choices when you were young?

some choices are worse than others and follow us as we age. All poor choices we made when young are not equal. There are lingering consequences sometimes.

 

[G2]

Did you make poor choices when you were young?

I'm sure I did when I was an adolescent. But not to this degree at 22 yrs old. I've never took time away from my career to answer questions about being in THE drive-by vehicle.

 

[Rayman70]

For Kj's sake I hope the kid turns it around and can overcome and not repeat the same mistake.

 

[Rayman70]

I'm sure I did when I was an adolescent. But not to this degree at 22 yrs old. I've never took time away from my career to answer questions about being in THE drive-by vehicle.

AMEN

 

[G2]

Are you forgetting that it was you who engaged me on this topic? My point from the very beginning is that Joseph has never gotten the benefit of the doubt and that the actual subject of the thread is stuff people want to believe some because of preconceived ideas about him, so they believe it. I'm not generalizing. Joseph's excused absence from practice was met with outrage before investigation right here on CowboysZone. I bring it up because it is absolute proof of my point. When one debates a topic, support is highly desirable and I've got that.

Your engagement of me was that "the truth" was coming out from the team and staff. I told you we don't know jack because we're hearing this 3rd hand and all and again provided examples to support why a guy in the media might not be the best for considering his 3rd hand account as "the truth," especially considering my example above where people kneejerked before knowing "the truth." I also asked you for quotes from the team and staff so we didn't have to rely on the he said, she said from a media guy and in the place of crickets was met with accusations of trying to change the topic as you changed the topic to "but, but, the drive-by though." Not the subject of this thread nor my take on the subject of this thread. So if you want to believe the media guy because he's not like the other media meanies and thus don't have to investigate whether what he says is actually " the truth," then have at it. The media counts on people doing that. Why? Because they know people are lazy and want what they want. So they give it to them and it's digested, no questions asked. Sometimes I ask questions.

Lol, ok man.

 

[Vtwin]

Did you make poor choices when you were young?

It's interesting that when I call a 23 year old a "kid" they usually get bent out of shape about it. but when that 23 year old makes a bad choice they get to lean on the 'he's just a kid' excuse.

KJ knew these guys and this scene very well. Writing his poor choice off as just being that of a youngster making youngster mistakes is ridiculous.

 

[Rayman70]

I'm sure I did when I was an adolescent. But not to this degree at 22 yrs old. I've never took time away from my career to answer questions about being in THE drive-by vehicle.

Makes me wonder how he even lasted this long in college.I guess everything catches ^ 2 us as we get older and we either change or we stay the same.

 

[BourbonBalz]

What does it tell you about his character? One can actually be a decent person and have associates that are not. These are young people from circumstances that need time to develop maturity. We are judging individuals whose brains are fully developed by our standards as mature adults.

I am sure you never did anything wrong when you were 23. I sure wouldn't want to be judged by some of the mistakes I made at that age.

Hanging out with murders goes beyond a mistake. I’m a UK fan and want him to thrive, but he’s going to have to make some drastic changes or he’ll be just another talented player that blew it.

 

[gimmesix]

There's the Law of Parties as well as failure to immediately report the crime. I've been googling drive-bys in Texas and I have yet to find another one where everyone in the car wasn't arrested.

I mean, yeah, I doubt KJ went out on the hunt that night. But I have a hard time believing he was an innocent bystander. I doubt any other guy in that vehicle had $3 million. Sure, there are hard crazy people out there who might scare the millionaire from the old hood... but at the same time they've confessed after he talked.

There's also the possibility that he took Cris Carter's advice and has a fall guy or two. That's obviously worst case. There's no reason to believe he would've reported it if his face wasn't put on TV, though.

I agree that those laws could be used against him, but if he is in full cooperation with the authorities now, I doubt that they would. Prosecuting attorneys cut deals all the time in order to put away those who are responsible for the worst part of crimes.

Not being an innocent bystander does not mean that he intended or even hinted that he wanted the person he fought with to be shot. You seem to be assuming some level guilt here, maybe just because he has millions. That doesn't make him guilty. I prefer to see it play out rather than condemn him for his money or even for choosing to be there.

Many here seem to believe in guilty until proven innocent. I agree that he is guilty of not reporting the crime immediately, but who knows if he would eventually have reported it even if he had not been ID'd. Having never been involved in a murder, I don't presume to know what a person's thought process would be. He made several bad choices that night, but that's all we really know that he did. Hopefully, if his role in this was nothing more than being in the vehicle, it will at least cause him to make better choices.