CFZ 29.8 - average points given up when Dak has thrown it 40 times

[kskboys]

It's not at all out of bounds to point out the defense has been porous in those games. It just struck me that the headline, as it's worded, seems to suggest that Dak passing so much is the reason opponents scored so much. Just pointing out that in most cases it probably works the other way.

3 and outs and quick scores gasses the D. ATL lost a super bowl due to too much downfield passing. As did KC.

Oh, and absolutely, we need a better D. Which starts up front. Stop frickin' basing everything on CBs and WRs, it doesn't work. How many playoff games do we have to lose because we can't stop the run?

 

[OmerV]

3 and outs and quick scores gasses the D. ATL lost a super bowl due to too much downfield passing. As did KC.

Oh, and absolutely, we need a better D. Which starts up front. Stop frickin' basing everything on CBs and WRs, it doesn't work. How many playoff games do we have to lose because we can't stop the run?

Huh? lol How is this a response to my post?

 

[kskboys]

Huh? lol How is this a response to my post?

Your post was about Dak passing too much. My post is saying that's not what it's about.

 

[OmerV]

Your post was about Dak passing too much. My post is saying that's not what it's about.

I didn't say Dak passes too much, nor did I say anything about DBs and WR's, nor did I say anything that suggested we don't need to be able to stop the run. Your post didn't seem to be anywhere near the general direction of what I did say.

 

[kskboys]

I didn't say Dak passes too much, nor did I say anything about DBs and WR's, nor did I say anything that suggested we don't need to be able to stop the run. Your post didn't seem to be anywhere near the general direction of what I did say.

"Just pointing out that in most cases it prolly works out the other way."

That was in regard to the premise of Dak passing too much. You absolutely did discuss this premise.

 

[RonnieT24]

It's not at all out of bounds to point out the defense has been porous in those games. It just struck me that the headline, as it's worded, seems to suggest that Dak passing so much is the reason opponents scored so much. Just pointing out that in most cases it probably works the other way.

Actually my post was in alignment with what you stated here. Sorry if the headline took you down the wrong path. My contention was absolutely that the high passing totals typically are BECAUSE the defense is getting worked and not the REASON the defense is getting worked as some have suggested. As I posted above, the Cowboys have a similarly crappy record in games when the defense has given up at least 30 points even when Dak has attempted fewer than 40 passes. So the fixation on 40 pass attempts is misguided in my view. More attention should be paid to how the defense performs in those games which typically has necessitated more pass attempts.

 

[OmerV]

"Just pointing out that in most cases it prolly works out the other way."

That was in regard to the premise of Dak passing too much. You absolutely did discuss this premise.

"The other way around" being that Dak throws a lot when the defense gives up a lot of points. In other words, when Dak throws a lot it's often because the situation dictates, not because he is throwing too much.

And, again, I didn't say anything about WR's and CB's or not needing to stop the run.

 

[SteveTheCowboy]

Actually my post was in alignment with what you stated here. Sorry if the headline took you down the wrong path. My contention was absolutely that the high passing totals typically are BECAUSE the defense is getting worked and not the REASON the defense is getting worked as some have suggested. As I posted above, the Cowboys have a similarly crappy record in games when the defense has given up at least 30 points even when Dak has attempted fewer than 40 passes. So the fixation on 40 pass attempts is misguided in my view. More attention should be paid to how the defense performs in those games which typically has necessitated more pass attempts.

The thing is...we need a better breakdown of WHY...the defense is giving up those points...win/lose/passing/not passing whatever.

We know we give up rushing yards. What is our offensive TOP. What is our scoring? 1st downs.

I don;t know. I;d venture to say....a lackluster offense, especially early...can really hurt the defense.

I don;t see any breakdown about this is any of your comments.

 

[CowboyFrog]

Micah doesnt get wins loses or 4th qtr comebacks in his stat column.
Why is that?

I mean he does the team has a win/loss record and he is on the team. Again Its just lazy to me to call it "Dak's" playoff record win its a team sport..Not saying you say that but it used alot like Dak is playing the 49rs by himself in the playoffs. And as i said Dak certainly gets the same playoff L as the rest but make no mistake they will win or lose as a team put the coaches and FO in that also.

 

[SteveTheCowboy]

I mean he does the team has a win/loss record and he is on the team. Again Its just lazy to me to call it "Dak's" playoff record win its a team sport..Not saying you say that but it used alot like Dak is playing the 49rs by himself in the playoffs. And as i said Dak certainly gets the same playoff L as the rest but make no mistake they will win or lose as a team put the coaches and FO in that also.

What i am saying is there isnt much use in making an issue of it. Just the way it is.

Which one of marino's team mates never won a super bowl?

All of them of course. None but him are mentioned.

 

[CowboyFrog]

What i am saying is there isnt much use in making an issue of it. Just the way it is.

Which one of marino's team mates never won a super bowl?

All of them of course. None but him are mentioned.

I would think in Dolphins fan circle they are mentioned plenty. During those seasons you probably had a very minor faction of Dolphin fans saying "Man Marino cant win big games" with the majority saying "Marino is not the problem on this team just the easy person to blame" kinda like here.

 

[RonnieT24]

The thing is...we need a better breakdown of WHY...the defense is giving up those points...win/lose/passing/not passing whatever.

We know we give up rushing yards. What is our offensive TOP. What is our scoring? 1st downs.

I don;t know. I;d venture to say....a lackluster offense, especially early...can really hurt the defense.

I don;t see any breakdown about this is any of your comments.

I don't see any breakdown of the defensive lapses in any of this other nonsense either. Apparently the 40 pass attempts happen in a vacuum.. why not the defensive performance? The bottom line is what I have attempted here is illustrate just how empty the "Dallas is 6-14 when Dak attempts 40 or more passes" stat is. We know this team very seldom reaches high high pass attempts when leading. Once they get a big lead they typically have been content to hand it off. Unlike what KC did with Mahomes attempting 58 passes in a game they won 41-14 last year. That will never happen in Dallas.. even as pass happy as Moore is.. he aint THAT pass happy.

Yes lackluster offense, especially early, can really hurt the defense. However can it not also be stated that porous defense can force the offense to have to take more chances and go more pass happy? The issue with Dak this year is that he has clearly decided that he will be more aggressive with the ball even when leading or in a tight game. I highly doubt he arrived at that decision on his own. Make no mistake .. I do NOT like it. I want this team to continue to play it close to the vest until it's down at least three scores. I have no interest in turning into an Air Raid team when the score is 13-10. That's been Moore's M.O. except when Rush was starting .. Some blame Dak, some blame Moore.. I blame them both.. because if it's Moore's doing then Dak needs to be smart enough and strong enough not to bend to it and if it's Dak then Moore needs to be strong enough to reign him in. Obviously none of us actually KNOWS who it is.. so I put it on both of them .. which means I put it on both of them to fix it. And if they can't then Big Mike needs to step in.

 

[plasticman]

Thus far this season, quarterbacks that throw 40 or more passes in a game are 26-59-2 They win 29.9% of those games

Quarterbacks that throw 28 to 39 passes are 113-99-2. They win 52.8% of their games.

Quarterbacks that throw 25 to 27 passes are 33-19. They win 63.5% of their games

 

[RonnieT24]

Thus far this season, quarterbacks that throw 40 or more passes in a game are 26-59-2 They win 29.9% of those games

Quarterbacks that throw 28 to 39 passes are 113-99-2. They win 52.8% of their games.

Quarterbacks that throw 25 to 27 passes are 33-19. They win 63.5% of their games

Yeah that tracks. Teams generally aren't slinging it all over the yard when they're winning. Coaches typically don't want to take any more chances than absolutely necessary and simply put throwing the ball comes with more risk than running it so most aren't going to be throwing it much up two or more scores. Andy Reid being the obvious exception ..

 

[kskboys]

The thing is...we need a better breakdown of WHY...the defense is giving up those points...win/lose/passing/not passing whatever.

We know we give up rushing yards. What is our offensive TOP. What is our scoring? 1st downs.

I don;t know. I;d venture to say....a lackluster offense, especially early...can really hurt the defense.

I don;t see any breakdown about this is any of your comments.

It's actually quite simple. On D, we lose the battle at the LOS way too often. Makes everything on D much more difficult.

 

[SteveTheCowboy]

I don't see any breakdown of the defensive lapses in any of this other nonsense either. Apparently the 40 pass attempts happen in a vacuum.. why not the defensive performance? The bottom line is what I have attempted here is illustrate just how empty the "Dallas is 6-14 when Dak attempts 40 or more passes" stat is. We know this team very seldom reaches high high pass attempts when leading. Once they get a big lead they typically have been content to hand it off. Unlike what KC did with Mahomes attempting 58 passes in a game they won 41-14 last year. That will never happen in Dallas.. even as pass happy as Moore is.. he aint THAT pass happy.

Yes lackluster offense, especially early, can really hurt the defense. However can it not also be stated that porous defense can force the offense to have to take more chances and go more pass happy? The issue with Dak this year is that he has clearly decided that he will be more aggressive with the ball even when leading or in a tight game. I highly doubt he arrived at that decision on his own. Make no mistake .. I do NOT like it. I want this team to continue to play it close to the vest until it's down at least three scores. I have no interest in turning into an Air Raid team when the score is 13-10. That's been Moore's M.O. except when Rush was starting .. Some blame Dak, some blame Moore.. I blame them both.. because if it's Moore's doing then Dak needs to be smart enough and strong enough not to bend to it and if it's Dak then Moore needs to be strong enough to reign him in. Obviously none of us actually KNOWS who it is.. so I put it on both of them .. which means I put it on both of them to fix it. And if they can't then Big Mike needs to step in.

Yes. And Yes and Yes.

I even SAID...."run game"...man I HATE we get pummeled that hard on the ground. We should know...it's an easy way for the offense to keep the ball, score, and keep our defense on the bench.

It's a very dynamic symbiotic relationship. I once caught hell for saying Dak can help the defense. By running a balanced clock-chewing offense and limited TOs. We've seen our share+ of 3 and outs and untimely turnovers that just kill our defense. When that happens...well now we have to pass 40 times.

I KINDA get your crusade here. But...here's where you lost me almost right from the get go:

"The bottom line is that pretty much the only time Dak has had to throw it 40 times it's been because the defense has been as loose as a 20 dollar you know what.."


Yes...the defense has been loose. AND...there's been many times the offense simply sputtered and they made the defense take the heat.

I also think a lot of people saying "we can;t have Dak passing 40 times a game"....it's nothing personal on Dak...and that they also understand we're in trouble in several ways when we do that.

 

[kskboys]

Yes. And Yes and Yes.

I even SAID...."run game"...man I HATE we get pummeled that hard on the ground. We should know...it's an easy way for the offense to keep the ball, score, and keep our defense on the bench.

It's a very dynamic symbiotic relationship. I once caught hell for saying Dak can help the defense. By running a balanced clock-chewing offense and limited TOs. We've seen our share+ of 3 and outs and untimely turnovers that just kill our defense. When that happens...well now we have to pass 40 times.

I KINDA get your crusade here. But...here's where you lost me almost right from the get go:

"The bottom line is that pretty much the only time Dak has had to throw it 40 times it's been because the defense has been as loose as a 20 dollar you know what.."


Yes...the defense has been loose. AND...there's been many times the offense simply sputtered and they made the defense take the heat.

I also think a lot of people saying "we can;t have Dak passing 40 times a game"....it's nothing personal on Dak...and that they also understand we're in trouble in several ways when we do that.

Well said.

Too many people mistakenly take it as a bash on Dak when we are simply saying we need to pay more attention to ball control and sustained drives. We go for the quick strikes way too often, which puts us in 2nd/3rd and long way too often and makes for failed drives and gassed D's.

 

[bewp7]

40+ throw from dak?

that gotta be at least 2 int so that cant help the d haha

 

[CowboyFrog]

Yes. And Yes and Yes.

I even SAID...."run game"...man I HATE we get pummeled that hard on the ground. We should know...it's an easy way for the offense to keep the ball, score, and keep our defense on the bench.

It's a very dynamic symbiotic relationship. I once caught hell for saying Dak can help the defense. By running a balanced clock-chewing offense and limited TOs. We've seen our share+ of 3 and outs and untimely turnovers that just kill our defense. When that happens...well now we have to pass 40 times.

I KINDA get your crusade here. But...here's where you lost me almost right from the get go:

"The bottom line is that pretty much the only time Dak has had to throw it 40 times it's been because the defense has been as loose as a 20 dollar you know what.."


Yes...the defense has been loose. AND...there's been many times the offense simply sputtered and they made the defense take the heat.

I also think a lot of people saying "we can;t have Dak passing 40 times a game"....it's nothing personal on Dak...and that they also understand we're in trouble in several ways when we do that.

With this current offense/ defense THEY HAVE to play ball control, its how the team is constructed. Drives me nuts that once Dak came back the damn shotgun spread (with WR core not made for it) keeps popping back up. Keep Dak under center use your TE/RB group which is stronger than your Current WR group (lets see what hilton has of course)...again this comes back to KM because Dak may be calling audibles but he is not calling the personel group thats in the huddle nor the damn shotgun scheme that KM cant seem to leave.

 

[RonnieT24]

Well said.

Too many people mistakenly take it as a bash on Dak when we are simply saying we need to pay more attention to ball control and sustained drives. We go for the quick strikes way too often, which puts us in 2nd/3rd and long way too often and makes for failed drives and gassed D's.

I disagree.. Most people MAKE it a bash on Dak when making these observations. When was the last time anybody made a "if Cooper Rush passes 40 times we will lose" thread? Did they make these same observations when Dalton was here? Nope.. in fact some argued that the offense was going to "take off now that we have a real quarterback under center." But maybe I read that wrong.. Maybe by "take off" they meant take a vacation from scoring.. No not every person who makes the 40 passes is a death knell for the Cowboys argument is taking a shot at Dak.. but plenty are doing exactly that. It's the old two apparently opposite things can be equally true deal. You know me.. I hate the sling it every down style of offense, which we almost never ran until Kellen Moore became the play caller. Zeke and TP are two of our best weapons on offense.. Getting them the ball should be the focal point of every game plan. The fact that it almost never really seems to be tells me we're never going to see the team we want to see in Dallas until Moore is gone.