CFZ 29.8 - average points given up when Dak has thrown it 40 times

[noshame]

Never have I ever seen a QB so needlessly defended to the death. If you have to make 1000+ posts to prove your point and scrap for straws (including pulling out wild stats and situations where context is desperately needed)… doesn’t that mean he’s a problem? Why do people so desperately defend him? Why have multiple people been fired because of his incompetence? There’s a single denominator and it’s Dak. It’s not hard to understand and it doesn’t make you a bad fan for criticizing and pointing out an extreme Achilles heel of your team.

Dak supporters and the crew of the Titanic

 

[MountaineerCowboy]

He went from Garrett being in control of the offense to Moore being in control of the offense. Has Garrett succeeded at other stops? No! What was the complaint we kept hearing from Giant fans while Garrett was there? Offense too predictable/no creativity.

Some act like Dak has had the best of the best when it comes to coaches and play calling.

The difference in the 2018 Cowboys offense and the 2019 Cowboys offense was drastic:

The 2018 Cowboys was 23rd in passing yards, 10th in rushing yards, and 22nd in PPG

The 2019 Cowboys (Moores first year as OC) the Cowboys were 2nd in passing yards, 5th in rushing yards, and 6th in PPG.

You're going to try and say Dak is more the problem though? The change from 2018 to 2019 was Kellen Moore becoming the OC.

 

[SteveTheCowboy]

Top 3 offense in multiple offensive categories including scoring for the last 2 years when Dak is in -- why are people so desperate to disparage him? And Moore while we are at it?

What's our playoff stats?

Maybe that has something to do with it.

 

[SteveTheCowboy]

Tom Brady won 6 SBs throwing short passes to TEs, slots and RBs. And how do you throw it long when all you’re facing is cover 2s and deep single high zones?

BTW Dak is one of the most proficient at passes greater than 15yds. No idea where anyone comes up with the myth that he only throws it short….

Source please.

 

[Oz-of-Cowboy-Country]

The difference in the 2018 Cowboys offense and the 2019 Cowboys offense was drastic:

The 2018 Cowboys was 23rd in passing yards, 10th in rushing yards, and 22nd in PPG

The 2019 Cowboys (Moores first year as OC) the Cowboys were 2nd in passing yards, 5th in rushing yards, and 6th in PPG.

You're going to try and say Dak is more the problem though? The change from 2018 to 2019 was Kellen Moore becoming the OC.

That's just evidence that the talent overcome the play calling. I can do a better job at play calling than Moore.

 

[SteveTheCowboy]

Well said. Logic is lost on a lot of people

"logic"? You commented on a very simplified talking point without drilling down.

I'm NOT saying it's all Dak. Or that the defense never caves.But it's just too big of a...scope...to boil down that hard.

I also think there are VERY EXTREMELY few people that only blame just Dak. So this crusade...is silly, unnecessary Dak Protection.

 

[SteveTheCowboy]

Never have I ever seen a QB so needlessly defended to the death. If you have to make 1000+ posts to prove your point and scrap for straws (including pulling out wild stats and situations where context is desperately needed)… doesn’t that mean he’s a problem? Why do people so desperately defend him? Why have multiple people been fired because of his incompetence? There’s a single denominator and it’s Dak. It’s not hard to understand and it doesn’t make you a bad fan for criticizing and pointing out an extreme Achilles heel of your team.

It's okay to "defend Dak"....but doing it as a crusade against the *millions* of forum members who only blame Dak....

well it's just odd man. I'm not even sure I have seen ONE person only blame Dak. Let alone the need for this inane forum clogging nonsense.

 

[RonWashington]

But it wasn't "thrown up." It just looked that way because the DE beat the RT like a drum and hit Dak's arm. It's disingenuous to characterize it as some sort of heave with your eyes closed. If you watch the play you will see that had Dak been able to follow throw there is a nice window to Schultz and that's probably an easy completion.

Ronnie you know football , go down field with the pass too many things can go wrong with that play . The defender was like in the hip pocket of the receiver . Better awareness from a 7 yr vet .

 

[MountaineerCowboy]

That's just evidence that the talent overcome the play calling. I can do a better job at play calling than Moore.

How come that talent didn't overcome in the first 3 years without Moore as the OC?

And if you could do better that the OC that is play calling what you all brag about as "the number 1 offense in the NFL" then you'd be doing it for a living.

 

[Beaker42]

There has been a lot of brain dead talk lately about the Cowboys' record when Dak throws the ball 40 or more times. It's 6-14. But since football is a team game that got me wondering.. Why was Dak putting it up 40 or more times in the first place.. I probably kinda knew the answer but went and looked for myself. The bottom line is that pretty much the only time Dak has had to throw it 40 times it's been because the defense has been as loose as a 20 dollar you know what..

I wonder what other QBs records are when their defenses are giving up 30 or more. I bet it aint all that good. None of which is to say Dak doesn't need to play better. Just that these cherry picked numbers in a vacuum don't really tell you a whole lot. The team is 6-14 when giving up a boatload of points. Shocking right? How many times Dak threw the ball probably didn't have much to do with it. In those 14 losses the defense held the opponent to under 20 points twice. Philly in 2019 and KC in 2021. They managed to hold the opponent under 30 three other times.. So in those 14 losses that the talking heads beat their chests about the Cowboys gave up at least 30 points 9 times.

But I can already hear it.. If Dak had only thrown it less the defense would have given up fewer points.. Because we can't play defense if the offense is throwing the ball more than 40 times. It's apparently against the rules. I suspect the defense being porous probably had a lot to do with all those pass attempts. Not every time.. but I would wager more often than not, the pass heavy games featured the defense coming out flat and letting the other team waltz up and down the field, which in turn gave Kellen Moore the excuse he needed to just start slingin it every down!!

RonnieT, is Dak your brother? C’mon dude, he needs to stop throwing it that many times. And I can tell you why - it’s because he’s thrown a pick that led to an easy score.

 

[RonnieT24]

Patrick Mahomes is 19-5 when throwing 40 or more passes. Dak is 6-14.

I think we can agree that Mahomes plays on a better team and has had better coaching than Dak .. He also plays for a team that is pass oriented and who will keep slingin it whether ahead or behind. Mahomes threw the ball 50 times in a game they won 41-14 last year.!!!!
But just to compare apples to apples.. let's look at the defensive performances in those games.

In the games where Mahomes has attempted at least 40 passes the KC defense, which people would swear is the worse in the league has surrendered an average of...

Drumroll please.

23.1 points..

So basically a TOUCHDOWN less than what Dak has had to fight against.

If I go back and look at how many games the Cowboys would have won with Dak throwing it for if the defense held the opponent to 23 points.. By my count his record would have been 15-5. Basically if the defense gives up one less TD per game his record flips. Even if everything else HE does stays the same..

Interesting .. aint it?

 

[RonnieT24]

RonnieT, is Dak your brother? C’mon dude, he needs to stop throwing it that many times. And I can tell you why - it’s because he’s thrown a pick that led to an easy score.

Is it your contention that the defense has only given up big points in games in which Dak has had turnovers? I won't even bother to post the data to prove how wrong you are.. You won't believe it anyway.

 

[CowboyFrog]

no matter what the thread, Dak is brought up by his bois because they are emotionally invested in him and is always in the forefront of their collective minds. It is what it is.

if Dak fails, they feel like it’s a condemnation on them so we see way too many threads trying to manipulate and perform mental gymnastics with nitpicking obscure stats to persuade others

here’s a stat…..1-3 playoff record of a guy that commands approximately 20% of the teams salary cap

nobody’s mind is gonna change until he does what he’s getting paid to do….win in the playoffs. Our last quarterback was judged that way so I see no reason to change the criteria just because some self identify with the current guy

The whole team owns that stat...Micah is 0-1 in the playoffs, again if thats your barameter then the Cowboys as a whole (even the players you like) have failed in crunch time, 26 years of failing players and I'm pretty sure Dak has not been here for all of it...BTW i believe Dak is included in this failure but so is every other player and coach through those years....Whats Zak Martins playoff record?

 

[Flamma]

There has been a lot of brain dead talk lately about the Cowboys' record when Dak throws the ball 40 or more times. It's 6-14. But since football is a team game that got me wondering.. Why was Dak putting it up 40 or more times in the first place.. I probably kinda knew the answer but went and looked for myself. The bottom line is that pretty much the only time Dak has had to throw it 40 times it's been because the defense has been as loose as a 20 dollar you know what..

I wonder what other QBs records are when their defenses are giving up 30 or more. I bet it aint all that good. None of which is to say Dak doesn't need to play better. Just that these cherry picked numbers in a vacuum don't really tell you a whole lot. The team is 6-14 when giving up a boatload of points. Shocking right? How many times Dak threw the ball probably didn't have much to do with it. In those 14 losses the defense held the opponent to under 20 points twice. Philly in 2019 and KC in 2021. They managed to hold the opponent under 30 three other times.. So in those 14 losses that the talking heads beat their chests about the Cowboys gave up at least 30 points 9 times.

But I can already hear it.. If Dak had only thrown it less the defense would have given up fewer points.. Because we can't play defense if the offense is throwing the ball more than 40 times. It's apparently against the rules. I suspect the defense being porous probably had a lot to do with all those pass attempts. Not every time.. but I would wager more often than not, the pass heavy games featured the defense coming out flat and letting the other team waltz up and down the field, which in turn gave Kellen Moore the excuse he needed to just start slingin it every down!!

I've seen it too many times. I'm not blaming Dak because like you said, it's a team sport. But I fully expect our offense to sputter when it counts. When we're playing a tough opponent.

I fully expect the Cowboys to win the first round in the playoffs. Because they will be the better team. I also fully expect our offense to be a no show in the divisional round, because we won't be the better team. And all the regular season stats aren't going to mean anything. I'm saying this because most of my predictions are wrong. Hopefully this is too. I know our D is better, but our O is the same crap people keep bragging about. Just because we can beat a crap team by 50 points doesn't mean a hell of a lot when it comes to the playoffs.

 

[conner01]

Most QB’s have a kissing record when throwing 40 times. That’s mostly because the only reason you throw 40 times is to keep up or catch up
The NFL as a whole had about a 30% win record when throwing 40 times

 

[RonnieT24]

Ronnie you know football , go down field with the pass too many things can go wrong with that play . The defender was like in the hip pocket of the receiver . Better awareness from a 7 yr vet .

No he wasn't. The LB was trailing by 5 yards and the DB that got the pick was setting down in the flat. Go watch the play again. Schultz did not have a defender within 10 feet of him on either side when the ball was thrown.


Look at this.




Notice how far away #1 who got the INT was from Schultz... And also notice that #48 who was the LB in coverage is not even in the picture. That play was wide open. Only the hit on the arm stopped it from being completed.

 

[SteveTheCowboy]

The whole team owns that stat...Micah is 0-1 in the playoffs, again if thats your barameter then the Cowboys as a whole (even the players you like) have failed in crunch time, 26 years of failing players and I'm pretty sure Dak has not been here for all of it...BTW i believe Dak is included in this failure but so is every other player and coach through those years....Whats Zak Martins playoff record?

Micah doesnt get wins loses or 4th qtr comebacks in his stat column.
Why is that?

 

[Whiskey Cowboy]

Not if the defense can hold the opponent under 25 points. It's not the number of passes the QB threw.. it's the number of points the opponent scores that determines the games.

If a high number of passes leads to shorter fields and a higher time of possession for the other team, the number of opposing points scored is a reflection of the inadequacy of the offense.

 

[RonnieT24]

If a high number of passes leads to shorter fields and a higher time of possession for the other team, the number of opposing points scored is a reflection of the inadequacy of the offense.

If I'm not mistaken the Cowboys were getting killed on time of possession when Rush was starting.. despite attempting over 10 less passes per game. Other theories?

 

[pansophy]

What's our playoff stats?

Maybe that has something to do with it.

25 years of that. Maybe someday people will realize winning has more to do with the team than the QB. Eli Manning was an average QB that had good moments given time — he won twice because of the Giants invest in the trenches.