We had opportunity to draft a premiere Edge to replace Parsons but passed both times

[kskboys]

I dont recall that. I saw most had him as a late round pick. Maybe not as low as he went .

Talking heads were espousing him as a 1st rounder.

 

[Diehardblues]

Talking heads were espousing him as a 1st rounder.

Understood . I don’t follow those talking heads. I do recall on draft day him falling farther than most thought. But again that’s the exception , not the rule.

For me I didn’t think he was a high pick so it wasn’t surprising.

 

[J-man]

IMHO, Downs was by far the better player over Bain. I heard that they weren't interested in Bain's short arms, but I also heard they would have taken him at 12 if not for Downs at 11. I'd like to know where they actually had Bain on the board. But I'm glad Downs was there.

I liked Mesidor, but I like the combo of Lawrence, Moore and Overton even better.

If you think about it, Mesidor was basically a finished project who was ok at run D and a little better at pass rush. Where as Lawrence is still raw, and if he's not already, he will probably be a better pass rusher eventually. And Overton is better at run D already. Plus add in Moore's potential to be a starting caliber CB and it's a no brainer for me.

 

[Proof]

I know. Downs is solid pick and fills a big need at Safety. And Lawrence was on our board for #20 at Edge . And it could turn out. Time will tell.

But we had the opportunity to draft one of the top edge rushers in the draft with Bain Jr and or Mesidor. Which I’d argue would have gone a lot further to potentially replacing Parsons. A priority for me.

After selecting Downs if we had stayed put at # 20, Mesidor was there. And that would have been great and I could have felt an excellent night.

But Im left with selecting Lawrence could be more of a risk. And I’ll be watching to see if Bain Jr and or Mesidor have greater impacts than Lawrence. Hopefully it won’t be like passing on Watt for Taco.

I’ll give Jethro a B maybe B+ for addressing key weaknesses and need . But Im not sure will be the immediate impacts needed. But selecting either of these other Edge I would have elevated to A or A+.

i'm one of micah's biggest fans, but having him didn't exactly produce what we needed, so is it really that imperative to replace him with a lesser version? they've switched defenses, they've focused on the interior and the back end, they have a vision, and lets see how it pans out.

 

[Diehardblues]

i'm one of micah's biggest fans, but having him didn't exactly produce what we needed, so is it really that imperative to replace him with a lesser version? they've switched defenses, they've focused on the interior and the back end, they have a vision, and lets see how it pans out.

That a fair argument but Id prefer to build around a cornerstone instead of moving in another direction which has cost us at least one potential playoff season and possibly more for the unknown.

 

[Proof]

That a fair argument but Id prefer to build around a cornerstone instead of moving in another direction which has cost us at least one potential playoff season and possibly more for the unknown.

yeah i'd have preferred to keep him personally. but we do have a cornerstone in Q, and now also potentially in Downs.

 

[jaythecowboy]

I saw a report today that Dallas would have taken CJ Allen if Lawrence wasn’t available. Mesidor was never a consideration.

 

[Diehardblues]

yeah i'd have preferred to keep him personally. but we do have a cornerstone in Q, and now also potentially in Downs.

And we could have still traded for Q while keeping Parsons.

 

[Diehardblues]

IMHO, Downs was by far the better player over Bain. I heard that they weren't interested in Bain's short arms, but I also heard they would have taken him at 12 if not for Downs at 11. I'd like to know where they actually had Bain on the board. But I'm glad Downs was there.

I liked Mesidor, but I like the combo of Lawrence, Moore and Overton even better.

If you think about it, Mesidor was basically a finished project who was ok at run D and a little better at pass rush. Where as Lawrence is still raw, and if he's not already, he will probably be a better pass rusher eventually. And Overton is better at run D already. Plus add in Moore's potential to be a starting caliber CB and it's a no brainer for me.

That means we could have actually had Bains and Mesidor in 1st round if we’d stayed put.

Maybe the greatest Edge Rush combo drafted in 1st round by same team in NFL history. That definitely would have been a great replacement of Parsons by any stretch of the imagination.

 

[kskboys]

Understood . I don’t follow those talking heads. I do recall on draft day him falling farther than most thought. But again that’s the exception , not the rule.

For me I didn’t think he was a high pick so it wasn’t surprising.

Greg, that's exactly what this convo was about. He fell in the draft, that's what we were talking about. Many had him higher.

 

[kskboys]

That means we could have actually had Bains and Mesidor in 1st round if we’d stayed put.

Maybe the greatest Edge Rush combo drafted in 1st round by same team in NFL history. That definitely would have been a great replacement of Parsons by any stretch of the imagination.

Or not.

 

[kskboys]

And we could have still traded for Q while keeping Parsons.

Maybe, but then the salary cap hits kick in. You start paying any non-QB 47 mil, you'll have trouble putting a team around him. And if he gets injured, you're done. Look at GB's record after Parsons went down. They based their entire D around him. Not smart.

And now we're having the same issue w/ Pickens. I love Pickens as a player, but you just cannot pay any WR that much.

 

[Diehardblues]

Or not.

We’re all entitled to our opinions . I’m no expert , don’t follow all of the variables of arms length, etc and I truly value your opinion especially on defense but those two were most impressive Edge rushers I’ve seen in recent years.

They dominated games. Playoff games against top 10 caliber opponents. That’s all I have to measure with is what I saw and felt.

And I was glad to see they both went in 1st round. It supports my eye wasn’t all bad. I wish we could have landed one of them. I’ll be following how they do and hope we aren’t sorry for passing on them. Thanks

And it doesn’t mean our draft wasn’t good.

 

[kskboys]

We’re all entitled to our opinions . I’m no expert , don’t follow all of the variables of arms length, etc and I truly value your opinion especially on defense but those two were most impressive Edge rushers I’ve seen in recent years.

They dominated games. Playoff games against top 10 caliber opponents. That’s all I have to measure with is what I saw and felt.

And I was glad to see they both went in 1st round. It supports my eye wasn’t all bad. I wish we could have landed one of them. I’ll be following how they do and hope we aren’t sorry for passing on them. Thanks

It's going to be wildly fascinating to see how Bain works out w/ those short arms. Can he disengage from OL's?

Those OGs he knocked over the create pressure in college won't be knocked over in the pros. Always interesting to see if a player can overcome what is usually a deal breaker.

 

[Diehardblues]

It's going to be wildly fascinating to see how Bain works out w/ those short arms. Can he disengage from OL's?

Those OGs he knocked over the create pressure in college won't be knocked over in the pros. Always interesting to see if a player can overcome what is usually a deal breaker.

It sure will be interesting. The fact he still went 15th in 1st round tells me there’s still some confidence he will. And Mesidor at 22 would support they were both dynamic talents valued in NFL.

 

[kskboys]

It sure will be interesting. The fact he still went 15th in 1st round tells me there’s still some confidence he will. And Mesidor at 22 would support they were both dynamic talents valued in NFL.

No, that's not sound reasoning. Draft status is a poor indicator of NFL success. Draft status is simple an indicator of the perception of the player in the NFL.

Both have positive signs, that's why they went in the 1st. Downs was the better prospect than Bain by far, so no use griping about Bain.

Mesidor at 20 would've been a reach, IMO, due to several factors. Age, a lengthy medical history, average first step, and a high missed tackle rate. Besides, we already have a better version of him in Gary, who is proven. And late developers always throw red flags, reminiscent of Taco.

 

[kskboys]

It sure will be interesting. The fact he still went 15th in 1st round tells me there’s still some confidence he will. And Mesidor at 22 would support they were both dynamic talents valued in NFL.

Also to be considered: Mia has one of the best DT combos in the NFL, both considered 1st round talent, and another youngster coming up who might be. Talent surrounding a player may make that player look better than he really is.

 

[Kwyn]

IMHO, Downs was by far the better player over Bain. I heard that they weren't interested in Bain's short arms, but I also heard they would have taken him at 12 if not for Downs at 11. I'd like to know where they actually had Bain on the board. But I'm glad Downs was there.

I liked Mesidor, but I like the combo of Lawrence, Moore and Overton even better.

If you think about it, Mesidor was basically a finished project who was ok at run D and a little better at pass rush. Where as Lawrence is still raw, and if he's not already, he will probably be a better pass rusher eventually. And Overton is better at run D already. Plus add in Moore's potential to be a starting caliber CB and it's a no brainer for me.

Mesidor was ok, but we kind of have a youth movement going on right now

 

[Kwyn]

It's going to be wildly fascinating to see how Bain works out w/ those short arms. Can he disengage from OL's?

Those OGs he knocked over the create pressure in college won't be knocked over in the pros. Always interesting to see if a player can overcome what is usually a deal breaker.

I think Bain is going to be a beast

 

[Diehardblues]

No, that's not sound reasoning. Draft status is a poor indicator of NFL success. Draft status is simple an indicator of the perception of the player in the NFL.

Both have positive signs, that's why they went in the 1st. Downs was the better prospect than Bain by far, so no use griping about Bain.

Mesidor at 20 would've been a reach, IMO, due to several factors. Age, a lengthy medical history, average first step, and a high missed tackle rate. Besides, we already have a better version of him in Gary, who is proven. And late developers always throw red flags, reminiscent of Taco.

Those factors have already been established. And they were still drafted in 1st round.

I agree draft status doesn’t equate to NFL success but the indicator of the perception dictates where most are selected.