Cowboys' first-team defense to start drills

[fivetwos]

Don't you worry.

Barham is likely going to be on the field a ton. You need 3 or 4 lbs that can play. This is a good problem to have.

Right. Players get beat up along the way. Depth is necessary.

Honestly the second biggest weakness during the Garrett years was the roster being very top heavy.

The depth is finally there. Now we just need to avoid being slaughtered by injuries and we will see it have an effect.

 

[dogberry]

What percent are we playing with 3 safety
defense?

Erod gave 90 percent, sorry missed that.

 

[gimmesix]

Nice, thank you.

The Hooker over Caleb thing might just be a respect type of thing. They’ll need Hooker along the way.

I remember when Kevin Smith didn’t start in his rookie year. It didn’t take long. I expect the same.

Yeah, I think with Downs and Barham, they are going to mix them in and let them show they deserve to replace the veterans. I don't mind that ... if they don't just defer to the veterans because they are veterans. I mean, experience counts for something, but the better player needs to play the most.

I've seen enough of Hooker to know that he's not ideal. He's an OK starter, but there's nothing game-changing about his play. I don't know what to expect from Winters. From everything I've seen, he'll fly to the ball against the run or pass but can get engulfed and overwhelmed by linemen and get stuck on blocks. If Downs and Barham are dynamic when they are out there, then they need start stealing snaps.

 

[fivetwos]

Yeah, I think with Downs and Barham, they are going to mix them in and let them show they deserve to replace the veterans. I don't mind that ... if they don't just defer to the veterans because they are veterans. I mean, experience counts for something, but the better player needs to play the most.

I've seen enough of Hooker to know that he's not ideal. He's an OK starter, but there's nothing game-changing about his play. I don't know what to expect from Winters. From everything I've seen, he'll fly to the ball against the run or pass but can get engulfed and overwhelmed by linemen and get stuck on blocks. If Downs and Barham are dynamic when they are out there, then they need start stealing snaps.

I’d say by week 4-6 those two will begin to force the issue.

They need Hooker though, and don’t we need him sulking. So this is probably the way to approach things. Remember they will probably use a lot of Caleb and even Thompson in the slot.

Can you see a dime situation with several safeties in it? That’d be odd vs history, but those two are flexible.

(I realize I’m taking to someone who understands much more of this particular stuff than I do, so please be patient lol)

 

[gimmesix]

Don't you worry.

Barham is likely going to be on the field a ton. You need 3 or 4 lbs that can play. This is a good problem to have.

One of the reasons I'm not worried about depth at the linebacker position (ILB, not OLB since that's essentially just defensive ends) is I don't think we'll need more than three that we need to rely on to play unless there's an injury. We won't have more than two true linebackers out there at a time. We'll either be in the 4-3 (5-2) or the 4-2-5. Players like Shemar James and Justin Barron (if he's kept) will be primarily special teammers. I'm not sure we'll go more than four deep on the 53.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

This is just for the public practice. It's not some declaration of how things will be during the year.

 

[gimmesix]

I’d say by week 4-6 those two will begin to force the issue.

They need Hooker though, and don’t we need him sulking. So this is probably the way to approach things. Remember they will probably use a lot of Caleb and even Thompson in the slot.

Can you see a dime situation with several safeties in it? That’d be odd vs history, but those two are flexible.

(I realize I’m taking to someone who understands much more of this particular stuff than I do, so please be patient lol)

For the dime, I have Bell out there as the second linebacker, but I think that's going to depend on how Overshown and Winters are doing in coverage. Ideally, you'd prefer to leave the two true linebackers out there in the 4-2-5 nickel for more run-stopping power in case there's a run. I know some fans are down on Bell, but he was at his best when he was playing dime linebacker. It's when we are manning him up in downfield coverage or having him play the run as a true linebacker instead of nickel or dime linebacker that he has struggled.

Even though Thompson can play slot, I don't see him doing it with Downs here ... although I could see us bringing Downs up to blitz and having Thompson slide into the slot over the slot receiver at times. (Hooker would then be the single-high safety in that look.) I think Thompson will primarily be one of the deep safeties, though, as we play a lot of zone.

 

[gimmesix]

One of the reasons I'm not worried about depth at the linebacker position (ILB, not OLB since that's essentially just defensive ends) is I don't think we'll need more than three that we need to rely on to play unless there's an injury. We won't have more than two true linebackers out there at a time. We'll either be in the 4-3 (5-2) or the 4-2-5. Players like Shemar James and Justin Barron (if he's kept) will be primarily special teammers. I'm not sure we'll go more than four deep on the 53.

Whoops, I meant we'll either be in the 3-4 or 4-2-5, not the 4-3. I don't expect us to run much 4-3, if any.

 

[jazzcat22]

They need to stop calling it first-team defense and just say what the offense is running. This isn't meaningful if the offense came out in 12. For all we know, they were in nickel the next 10 plays.

Guys like Machota should know better.

Right.
And it is not so much who are the starting 11.
It is who the top 15 or 16 are. As they will use a rotation. And as you say, what is the offense on the field.

 

[TheMightyVanHalen]

OP said "close" to the starting lineup. Caled came in on the second play. Why is everyone flipping out? Maybe they are resting JaiB because of his groin. I know he played in the Cardinals game but maybe he felt something wrong and they are taking no chances because he is going to be our junkyard dog on defense.

 

[fivetwos]

For the dime, I have Bell out there as the second linebacker, but I think that's going to depend on how Overshown and Winters are doing in coverage. Ideally, you'd prefer to leave the two true linebackers out there in the 4-2-5 nickel for more run-stopping power in case there's a run. I know some fans are down on Bell, but he was at his best when he was playing dime linebacker. It's when we are manning him up in downfield coverage or having him play the run as a true linebacker instead of nickel or dime linebacker that he has struggled.

Even though Thompson can play slot, I don't see him doing it with Downs here ... although I could see us bringing Downs up to blitz and having Thompson slide into the slot over the slot receiver at times. (Hooker would then be the single-high safety in that look.) I think Thompson will primarily be one of the deep safeties, though, as we play a lot of zone.

Sounds right on Thompson not doing slot much, but the roles ought to be interchangeable with him and Caleb, yes? So we aren’t absolutely screwed on that package with one injury, which has happened plenty to this team in recent years.

I don’t know that many are down on Bell more so than they’ve just really added a ton of better players since he has been here, and folks are looking for better.

It’ll be interesting to see how many holdovers CP wants to keep. Guys like Bell, Williams and Liafau could very well be cut in favor of guys that he brought in. I very much question if and how the latter two are a fit within this scheme. Again, you’d know better than me, but it looks as if they are asking them to cover. I dunno there. Two very overdrafted players.

 

[LouBrown]

Yeah, I'm just saying, if Barham doesn't gain meaningful snaps within the first month of the season, now you're compromising winning football games. Get the best players on the field!

I don't know why we are assuming a third-round pick who played as much edge as ILB last year gives you a significantly better chance to win than guys who have already done it at the NFL level.

The reality is that Barham has some nice splash plays but we have no real sense of how he is performing in coverage or understanding the defense and his assignments entirely.

 

[817Gill]

This is good info, thanks.

I fully expect it’ll change however, and quickly.

Caleb was too good to expose in the preseason but not good enough to start? Interesting.

OO and Hooker are not among the best 11 IMO but the word “starter” doesn’t really mean a whole lot with the amount of subbing they do down to down and series to series.

One way to look at it is the depth is finally there. Who’d have thought TWO Dallas first rounders would not be “starting” players?

OO is your other starting 3-4 end. Clearly the second best there after QW, so yeah he’s amongst the best 11 if we are in a traditional 3-4 look.

 

[Cowboyny]

This is probably close to the real starting lineup

Compared to last year, total new group on defense outside of just a few players.

 

[jazzcat22]

I've seen enough of Hooker to know that he's not ideal. He's an OK starter, but there's nothing game-changing about his play.

Hooker is still a solid player. He has never had a surrounding group of players like there will be this year, or so it seems.
Will be interesting to see the difference.

They need Hooker though, and don’t we need him sulking. So this is probably the way to approach things. Remember they will probably use a lot of Caleb and even Thompson in the slot.

Why would Hooker sulk? Never seen that in him before.
Hooker will get his time when Downs is in the slot as you said.

I think it will work out pretty well.

 

[big dog cowboy]

It's laughable they they just handed the starting LB jobs to Overshown and Winters.

Where is the evidence of that?

 

[big dog cowboy]

The overreaction to the OP is ridiculous. But also somewhat expected.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

I don't know why we are assuming a third-round pick who played as much edge as ILB last year gives you a significantly better chance to win than guys who have already done it at the NFL level.

Winters was a sixth round pick. What makes him so good that Barham can't be better?

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

Yeah, I'm just saying, if Barham doesn't gain meaningful snaps within the first month of the season, now you're compromising winning football games. Get the best players on the field!

How do we know Barham is the best player? Make him earn it.

 

[rambo2]

Yeah, I'm just saying, if Barham doesn't gain meaningful snaps within the first month of the season, now you're compromising winning football games. Get the best players on the field!

He will have snaps in the 1st quarter of the 1st game.