Is there any credible evidence beyond fans speculation Jethro hasn't been involved in offseason?

[Mark]

I mainly follow local coverage of Cowboys so may have missed an official announcement or Jethro conceding he’s hasn’t been involved in bringing in new talent in FA and draft on defense.

Keep hearing claims that the better decisions and acquisitions this offseason must mean he isn’t as involved. I’ve been traveling quite a bit this year so maybe I missed some coverage or admissions from Jethro as such.

I must remind fans we have built some other playoff teams this era with Jethro and as recent as with McCarthy had a 5th ranked defense. So it really isn’t that much of a stretch he was involved again.

As long as he is GM, he still gets credit. Same reason he’s been blamed this era. I’ve been a huge critic and I’d lead the parade if he was stepping back.

I've subscribed to this theory all offseason. No doubt whatsoever that Jerry is "involved" - he writes the checks, still. But the fingerprints of others have been all over football operations in recent months.

There is a palpable sense of resignation (not to be confused with lack of determination) within the traditional monarchical court in Dallas. We are seeing a more collaborative, less singular-ego-driven atmosphere...which many have clamoured for, for decades now.

Let's face it: The Jaydon Blue and Joe MIlton cuts would have been almost inconceivable a few years back...Exhibits "1" and "2," among a host of others.

I welcome this trend, and long may it continue.

 

[gimmesix]

Yep and we knew he was gonna be forced on whoever was the head coach.

They had interviewed him, but they did not hire him until after interviewing head coaching candidates. If they had hired him before they started interviews, then we could say he was forced on him. As the GM, Jerry saw the opportunity to get someone he respected and felt would be a great DC, he likely shared that knowledge with his head coaching candidate and the offensive head coaches didn't have a problem with it. Or maybe Kellen did and that's why he seemed to drop out of the race.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

I don't think saying Eberflus was forced on him is consistent with the other hires. If we say that No-Schott made the decision on those hires, then why do we say No-Schott didn't make the decision on Eberflus? Because Eberflus was a bad hire?

It doesn't makes sense to me to say Jerry let No-Schott do whatever he wanted at every other coaching position except DC. I think Eberflus was brought up in conversations with head coaching candidates before he was hired and No-Schott didn't say no, I don't want him. He may not have picked him, but he didn't object to him. Therefore, Eberflus wasn't forced on him.

Oh Eberflus wasn’t the only bad hire. Sorensenson was too probably even worse than Eberflus. But I do believe he was a Shotty hire. Because he was consistent with the Whitecotton, Adam’s, Sorensen hires. Young football minds who were hungry. Eberflus didn’t represent that. Even watching him on the sideline he looked defeated. Mentally checked out.

I think Eberflus was forced on him just like Garrett was forced on Wade. This is how Jerry operates.

 

[Bobhaze]

As long as Jerry is breathing there is no scenario where he does not have the “final say”. That’s what he says anyway. Doesn’t mean he doesn’t let other people have a big say. But he has final call on EVERYTHING.

The question now to me is, can Jerry and Stephen take advice and criticism to learn and grow from, or do the coaches and whoever else have JJs and SJs ears, have the ability to convince them that a new idea is actually Jerry’s idea? LOL. Can these guys actually learn?

My long standing concern about Jerry and Stephen is their complete lack of accountability for failure on the field. They have no problem holding players, coaches and assistant coaches accountable. But not themselves. They are 100% bulletproof. That’s cancer for any big organization.

Research has shown consistently over the years that a lack of accountability at the top is really bad for any organization supposedly operating a “meritocracy” which is the heart of all sports competition. Winners keep their jobs. Losing FO people and even mediocre ones get fired. Except here.

Can this organization succeed with an on field product as the only outlier left in pro sports where the owner is also the GM? No other NFL owner is foolish enough to do that anymore. Just Jerry. Will Stephen hire a real GM someday? Who knows?

But until Jerry is buried at midfield at AT&T with the blinding sun shining beautifully through his beloved stayjum we won’t know the answer to that question.

 

[gimmesix]

Oh Eberflus wasn’t the only bad hire. Sorensenson was too probably even worse than Eberflus. But I do believe he was a Shotty hire. Because he was consistent with the Whitecotton, Adam’s, Sorensen hires. Young football minds who were hungry. Eberflus didn’t represent that. Even watching him on the sideline he looked defeated. Mentally checked out.

I think Eberflus was forced on him just like Garrett was forced on Wade. This is how Jerry operates.

You can think that. I'm just saying that the evidence points to No-Schott being complicit. Again, it may not have been someone he would have chosen, but that doesn't mean he couldn't have said no if he had someone specific in mind.

I just can't back the idea of Adams was all No-Schott, Whitecotton was all No-Schott, Sorenson was all No-Schott, but Eberflus? Well, he was forced on No-Schott. I simply think No-Schott gave no push-back because he didn't really care who his defensive coordinator was. Eberflus was a respected coach who had done well as a defensive coordinator. Defense wasn't No-Schott's side of the ball. Why would he care?

I think after last year, he cared and made more of an effort to have a say in it this year. And I think based on past coaches we've had here that the Joneses are OK with that. This idea that Jerry forces coaches on his coaches doesn't really have a lot of proof. Even with Garrett, I don't think Wade Phillips had the backbone to say anything other than Great hire, Jerry, and similar to No-Schott, he was more focused on getting his specialty right.

McCarthy was a little different to me because he inherited an offensive coordinator (Moore). Usually, offensive head coaches want to bring in their offensive guys and the same with defensive ones. I don't know if McCarthy actually sought to keep Moore or just thought he could work with him, so he didn't balk at the suggestion. Based on what he said, I really think he did want to keep the language and system intact and just add to it.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

You can think that. I'm just saying that the evidence points to No-Schott being complicit. Again, it may not have been someone he would have chosen, but that doesn't mean he couldn't have said no if he had someone specific in mind.

I just can't back the idea of Adams was all No-Schott, Whitecotton was all No-Schott, Sorenson was all No-Schott, but Eberflus? Well, he was forced on No-Schott. I simply think No-Schott gave no push-back because he didn't really care who his defensive coordinator was. Eberflus was a respected coach who had done well as a defensive coordinator. Defense wasn't No-Schott's side of the ball. Why would he care?

I think after last year, he cared and made more of an effort to have a say in it this year. And I think based on past coaches we've had here that the Joneses are OK with that. This idea that Jerry forces coaches on his coaches doesn't really have a lot of proof. Even with Garrett, I don't think Wade Phillips had the backbone to say anything other than Great hire, Jerry, and similar to No-Schott, he was more focused on getting his specialty right.

McCarthy was a little different to me because he inherited an offensive coordinator (Moore). Usually, offensive head coaches want to bring in their offensive guys and the same with defensive ones. I don't know if McCarthy actually sought to keep Moore or just thought he could work with him, so he didn't balk at the suggestion. Based on what he said, I really think he did want to keep the language and system intact and just add to it.

Well I agree that he didn’t really care which is why I said I don’t think he was a hire of his. I’m sure he got hired with the understanding Eberflus would be coming along. He probably didn’t mind it. It’s a known fact Garrett was hired before Wade. He for sure was thrown onto him.

I guess I’m kind of confused here so if not Shotty who do you think are behind there hires?

 

[Kwyn]

I don't think saying Eberflus was forced on him is consistent with the other hires. If we say that No-Schott made the decision on those hires, then why do we say No-Schott didn't make the decision on Eberflus? Because Eberflus was a bad hire?

It doesn't makes sense to me to say Jerry let No-Schott do whatever he wanted at every other coaching position except DC. I think Eberflus was brought up in conversations with head coaching candidates before he was hired and No-Schott didn't say no, I don't want him. He may not have picked him, but he didn't object to him. Therefore, Eberflus wasn't forced on him.

Because based on the timing and every insiders opinion on the subject, Eberflus was Jerry’s hire.

Schottenheimer finally got a shot at head coaching and was not going to sabotage a chance he had been pursuing his whole career by making Eberflus a line in the sand. Eberflus hiring was leaked to the media jsut hours after Schottenheimers intro press conference.

Schottenheimer and Eberflus long careers had never overlapped and in addition to the piece below, Schottenheimer’s huge Atheltic article said

“Defensive coordinator Matt Eberflus, a former Cowboys assistant who was fired as the Chicago Bears’ head coach last November, was recruited directly by Jerry Jones”

Don’t forget, Jerry made Eberflus an offer to become DC while he was on Marinellis staff. Marineli was going to be “assistant head coach” to make room and Eberflus was promised play calling

Eberflus declined and instead went to be the Colts DC

The attempt to promote him in 2018 has all been documented many time

Here’s an article that discussed the Eberflus hire

"He's had tremendous experience. He's dealt with adversity. He's had some great successes. ... I jumped at it when we had the chance to get him. I still feel as strongly (about him as the day we hired him)."

https://cowboyswire.usatoday.com/st...erflus-hire-brian-schottenheimer/86687929007/

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/65...&source=user_shared_article&smid=ta-ios-share

 

[Diehardblues]

You aren’t going to get anything concrete until years down the road.

For instance I hear guys now speak on McCarthy. According to Bobby Belt the issue they had was McCarthy didn’t want to do more than he had to. He didn’t want to take part in shopping for the groceries he just wanted to cook. Cowboys wanted someone who was more hands on. So if that’s true then that’s how Shottu got the job. He is more hands on. We know he wanted Klayton Adam’s. We know he hired the majority of these guys and had Eberflus forced on him. Who was the worst coach for them? Eberflus. Year later they get Christian Parker who is similar to hiring Adam’s.

I think you’re looking for a written statement but I don’t think you’re going to get it.

Just because Quinn had good defenses doesn’t mean it was the right hire. Because when Packers scored 50 points on us that was Quinn as the DC. Sometimes it’s not who you hire but how and why you do it. And Parker seems to represent what they want to be and become. Guys like Mike and Quinn don’t despite their regular season success.

But you’re assuming Parker and even Shotty are the right hires. That hasn’t come to bear yet.

Once this all reaches its potential in the playoffs , assuming it does, then the accolades can begin.

Until then , most of us anxiously await sitting on edge of our seats a little more excited than usual with suspect eyes knowing who is still at the helm .

 

[Diehardblues]

I've subscribed to this theory all offseason. No doubt whatsoever that Jerry is "involved" - he writes the checks, still. But the fingerprints of others have been all over football operations in recent months.

There is a palpable sense of resignation (not to be confused with lack of determination) within the traditional monarchical court in Dallas. We are seeing a more collaborative, less singular-ego-driven atmosphere...which many have clamoured for, for decades now.

Let's face it: The Jaydon Blue and Joe MIlton cuts would have been almost inconceivable a few years back...Exhibits "1" and "2," among a host of others.

I welcome this trend, and long may it continue.

The problem I have is we haven’t done anything yet. The season hasn’t even begun and so many are already crowning all the achievements we’ve made .

We still have a 2 year HC who’s has never been a HC before with a losing record , a DC who has never been a DC, a totally rebuilt defense we haven’t seen yet and an aging QB in his prime who has continued to underperform against the best in NFL and stumble in playoffs .

And why this still sounds more like our typical preseason over hype heading into the season. While I totally get the increased excitement with the changes which have occurred and I must admit have a little more interest than usual I’d caution to put the cart before the horse . It’s a long season, much can happen .

I prefer to let it play out, see how it develops sitting on edge of my big chair and ottoman hoping we might have put together a better team than we’ve seen this era all the while averting major injuries and there aren’t several better teams out there.

It’s a long time until January. And if we are still playing in February then I might begin to consider Jethro wasn’t quite as involved. Assuming he doesn’t throw a fit if fans and media aren’t giving him credit and fire our new coveted coaching staff like he did last time we built a champion.

 

[Diehardblues]

It’s a fair question Greg and I understand your point.

But this is after all an “opinion forum”. Quite a bit of the content on here is pure fan speculation, even if many of the fans speculating are convinced it’s “almost fact”, lol.

Understood but it’s why I enjoy pushing back cause many are “convinced it’s almost fact”.

And if it doesn’t come to fruition in January they will probably be right back here claiming Jethro derailed it. Lol

All that said this effort to push back in no way or shape is a push back on the good efforts and moves in offseason to rebuild defense and the prospects it could potentially bring. Only that Jethro wasn’t still involved or has in any official capacity stepped back not taking credit.

 

[Diehardblues]

You'll never get a definitive answer.

If you ever meet people in local sports media, you'll find that there are many things that are common knowledge to them that they'll never report.

For example:

1: Stephen runs football operations but he has to find ways to make Jerry feel comfortable with the big decisions.

2: Stephen wanted to trade Parsons. It was "convenient" for him that Parsons/Agent irritated Jerry.

I tend to agree. We’ve all witnessed how Stephen has been more out front in recent years but as you concluded it still has to be ran by Jethro. I’d call that still being involved and at the helm.

 

[RustyBourneHorse]

Yep and we knew he was gonna be forced on whoever was the head coach.

Yup, and it was dumb. There's a reason most FOs hire the HC first and THEN let the HC choose his DC lol.

 

[Diehardblues]

I am so tired of this nonsense. Every time they have a press conference you see who is in charge. Every time they show war room video you see who is in charge. Stephen can't burp until his daddy nods his approval.

Yep. It appears fairly obvious to me he’s still involved as ever .

I think what’s so amazing to me is fans already assume this roster is the next championship caliber team finally putting to rest 30 years of frustration and why Jethro must not be as involved .

And if that comes to fruition that might be a worthwhile discussion . What happens if it ends in disappointment and frustrating loss in playoffs again, does that mean Jethro is still as involved? Fans are so fickle.

Fans seem so desperate that I think it just makes them feel better or there is a greater chance for success if Jethro has taken a back seat and this has become nothing more than another type of offseason or preseason hype for hope.

Some fans must not believe we can put together a better team with Jethro but it’s always been a possibility. Afterall he made the right hire once before . And I’ve always been one who said he deserves some credit for approving Jimmy’s decisions along with making some good hires.

There’s always been the possibility he could do that again. He’s just always got in the way undermining and meddling along with not usually making the right hires which didn’t assemble the best talent .

It’s entirely too early to be having these type of conversations. We’ll have ample time to have these discussions after we make the championship game or Super Bowl . Until that happens we should put all of these prospects on hold . Just more hype !!

 

[Diehardblues]

I don't think we know the bolded part. We can't say that the offensive coaches were all his selections but the defensive selection was "forced on him." We seemed to be mainly looking at offensive coaches to be the next head coach last year and none of them may have expressed any specifics about what defensive coach they wanted. In fact, they may not have had any problem with Eberflus because of the success he had had in Indy as a coordinator. I just don't think there's evidence to say that Eberflus was hired despite the head coach selection rather than because of it. This year, maybe No-Schott wanted a bigger role in it, but I see nothing that says he had any issue with the Eberflus hiring.

I think some fans are confused what Jethro’s role has always been. He’s always listened to advice from Stephen, Will, HC and staff. But it has to be ran by him.

 

[Vtwin]

The last two seasons clearly show a change in philosophy.

What is more likely?

Jerry's mindset changed completely.
or
The influence leading to the change is coming from somewhere else.

Jerry said this in February,
“That ol’ mirror [pronounced more like mirrah in Jones’ Arkansas twang], that self-evaluation really is appropriate and has to be done. My way of things doesn’t work. If I don’t change, I’m not successful. There’s no other way if you want to be hot and go to the dance.”

Bunch of other good quotes in the article that came from.
https://www.star-telegram.com/sports/nfl/dallas-cowboys/article314596293.html

 

[JayFord]

Did we address key positions?

If yes

Then he wasnt involved

 

[Diehardblues]

I do think there is limited adjustment from year to year. Two years ago, we practically did nothing in free agency and had a bad year. Last year, we made quite a few moves, and several of them earlier than we had been, and attempted to coach up failed first-round picks. That failed, so this year we again made quite a few moves early but we avoided going after failed players. We still mainly stuck with spending low in free agency, but we've morphed when and who we do that on a few times. I think some of that comes down to coaching input. Pretty much anyone you talk to on the team says that it is a team effort. The Joneses' part of it is the final decision and setting the free agent philosophy IMO. The rest operate under those limitations.

Last years debacle on defense with the trade and loss of Parsons dictated the moves and decisions on defense this offseason and draft.

I sincerely doubt that needed much convincing on Jethro’s part.

Again, I think fans have always over estimated his part as GM. He’s admitted he doesn’t even watch film. He’s not a talent evaluator, etc. He takes advice and uses his instincts .

And some seasons they have better slots in draft and more Cap to use. It looks like they did a pretty good job overall but we haven’t played a single game yet.

And if it meets expectations then Jethro and entire staff will deserve accolades .

 

[Diehardblues]

Did we address key positions?

If yes

Then he wasnt involved

We’ve addressed key positions on defense before , they just were bust more often than not.

We don’t know yet that some of our picks this year might be bust.

Maybe we should wait and see how all this shakes out before making such claims .

 

[Diehardblues]

I've subscribed to this theory all offseason. No doubt whatsoever that Jerry is "involved" - he writes the checks, still. But the fingerprints of others have been all over football operations in recent months.

There is a palpable sense of resignation (not to be confused with lack of determination) within the traditional monarchical court in Dallas. We are seeing a more collaborative, less singular-ego-driven atmosphere...which many have clamoured for, for decades now.

Let's face it: The Jaydon Blue and Joe MIlton cuts would have been almost inconceivable a few years back...Exhibits "1" and "2," among a host of others.

I welcome this trend, and long may it continue.

We’ve had fingerprints of other HC’s and staff in recent years but results still came up short.

Perhaps we should wait for this discussion until the results come in.

I’m assuming if it disappoints again with frustrating ending that it’s still Jethro’s fault.

And why this rhetoric appears more hopeful hype thinking Jethro has stepped back and why things look better.

Instead it’s entirely possible Jethro has hired the right guys and their suggestions which he’s approved could finally work out.

 

[Diehardblues]

The last two seasons clearly show a change in philosophy.

What is more likely?

Jerry's mindset changed completely.
or
The influence leading to the change is coming from somewhere else.

Jerry said this in February,
“That ol’ mirror [pronounced more like mirrah in Jones’ Arkansas twang], that self-evaluation really is appropriate and has to be done. My way of things doesn’t work. If I don’t change, I’m not successful. There’s no other way if you want to be hot and go to the dance.”

Bunch of other good quotes in the article that came from.
https://www.star-telegram.com/sports/nfl/dallas-cowboys/article314596293.html

And if the results come in then we definitely have a story. And the discussions will be valid . Until then it’s hype of hope fans have been desperate for decades.