Did the Refs Rob the Commanders of a Gutsy Road Win?

[Ranching]

those of us who are discussing it obviously. your declaration of "done deal" has been duly noted but we will continue to question as we see fit.

yes we did win but that isn't the subject of this thread.

The subject of this thread is, did the commanders get robbed of a win....that's why, we won the game is relevant.

 

[MarcusRock]

A few years ago, a receiver caught the ball running in the endzone, both feet in bounds as he was leaning, but he tumbled out of bounds and lost the ball despite taking 3 steps inbounds. Because he was off balance and went to the ground out of bounds and lost the ball, it was called incomplete.

If this happened with the current rules in place then that was wrongly called too. You take "3 steps inbounds" and that's a catch whether you stay upright or if you're stumbling on the way to the ground (the latter is what changed about the rule). Losing the ball after that does not matter. The rule even states, "an additional step" beyond the required 2 to qualify something as a catch.

 

[Amarth]

Who cares who questioned it. The call was made by those that are supposed to make it. Done deal. BTW, we won the game.

Lol, “the call was made by those who were supposed to make it”. First of all, we all realize that but that isn’t what this thread is about, try to stay on topic or don’t “contribute”. Second of all, I guarantee if this call went the other way around your demeanor would be completely different and you would have plenty more to say about it.

 

[Amarth]

Just an FYI @MarcusRock I lurk a lot more than I post so I can’t say we agree on everything but you’ve always stood out to me for keeping it real when it comes to the officiating whether it benefits the cowboys or not. 90% of us here want to see the Cowboys win but about half that number, if that, want to see it done fairly. I think the majority would take a win regardless of how obvious a penalty may or not be, that’s not my style.

I understand there will be missed calls, bad calls and almost always subjective calls in every game but the league needs to fix this, it ruins the “product”. I guarantee every play there are at least 2-3 penalties that could be called, it’s just whether they want to throw a flag or not. It’s partially on the refs and a lot on the league for making so many subjective rules to the point they might as well just play flag football.

IMO, we probably would have won either way (much closer) but it’s a fair question whether that non TD call changed the game enough that we may have lost. I promise you, if it went the other way, or if it was our RB who got that clear face mask last week and we lost, there would be 20 threads about the NFL “hates the Cowboys” and how we were robbed. When it’s the other way around I admire that yourself, and the others who have chimed in, at least acknowledge how bad the officiating was and clearly benefited us.

I guarantee one of these games it will be the other way around and the same people justifying and/or minimizing these obvious calls, or non calls, that hurt us will be the first ones starting threads and crying about it.

 

[gimmesix]

But the reason it was first called a catch is the on-field official didn't see the ball hit the ground. If you ignore that it did, the Dez catch is absolutely a catch. You keep the ball off the ground and you can hot potato that ball 50 times so long as you grasp it in the end. In Gene Steratore's pool report after the game, he said that in replay they confirmed the ball hit the ground and that's because it was labeled as going to the ground even before they even hit replay.

That's why the call was that "the receiver did not maintain possession of the ball ..." when it was made. The going to the ground part was the given. The debate was over trying to go backward to say going to the ground didn't apply because Dez made a football move but GTTG applied from beginning to end. If that's the call from jump and video helps you confirm the ball did hit the ground, it's rather simple to apply that rule.

It is your opinion that the on-field official didn't see the ball hit the ground. I don't believe the official who signaled it as a catch ever indicated that. Clearly, the ball came out when Dez hit the ground. The official could have seen what I saw, that Dez switched the ball from one hand to the other and lunged for the goal line.

It's irrelevant, though, since it is what it is, so there's no use rehashing this argument with you.

 

[MajesticRey]

I know what a catch is. After explaining it to you all over the years, you know what a catch is. Apparently, this ref crew (and replay crew) don’t know what a catch is. Was the fix in here? This play changed the whole complexion of the game. Dak, who was looking pretty shaky, seemed to settle in once he knew the game was in the bag (wink, wink). I mean, congrats to him on the All-Time Cowboys TD record but will he be able to sleep tonight knowing how he got it? Probably. He has a Sleep Number bed afterall.

Here’s the video. Look at the assuredness of the Commanders fan here, only to be disappointed moments later and watch his innocence go down the drain along with the Commanders' chances. I’m sure he doesn’t believe in anything anymore after this highway robbery.

Having a knee down doesn’t absolve responsibility of maintaining control of the ball.

 

[Ironicalicon]

Impossible to say if it lost them the game but I hate blown calls no matter what team it involves. Hell, we could be in the NFCCG with the Eagles, have the game come down to the wire and if the refs blew a call on a Devonta Smith TD catch and we won because of it, that game would have the mother of all asterisks next to it and be forever tainted in my eyes. And if we won the Super Bowl it would be bittersweet. There needs to be multiple levels call confirmation and unrestricted review protocol. How many times has a blown call been sustained because of ego or reputation?

 

[G2]

I honestly wish they would call any attempted catch incomplete if the ball touches the group. Maybe it would make deciphering a completion easier.

 

[Doomsay]

Bobble

 

[ReverendFelcher]

Loss of control doesn't necessarily mean it isn't a catch, and therein lies the problem with the rules. Too many shades of grey. League is over 100 years old. Should have this figured out by now.

 

[Fla Cowpoke]

Ya'll do realize that almost every ball moves when the player hits the ground? Especially ones like this where the player is landing on the elbow & side of the body where the ball is at.

Looked like he had firm control when knee\shin came down. After that he is only required to maintain "control".

It was not firmly in his hands…it literally shifted. Knee was down for sure…but has to have clear control all the way through. I don’t think he did…we can disagree.

Not the reason they lost the game though.

 

[TheMightyVanHalen]

My man, James. My second favorite TV dad behind George Jefferson. George was wild.

 

[DandyDon52]

It was close , could have gone either way.
IMO replay reviews are often wrong though.

As for a fix, why would this game need a fix?

 

[ghst187]

Probably not a win but a TD. Funny how they have video replay reviews and still get it wrong about 50% of the time.

 

[Alohawg1]

If I'm wearing red, it's a td. If I'm wearing blue, it's a good call, still bobbling etc... . If I'm wearing stripes, I'm consistently inconsistent and nobody knows *** I'm gonna call it until I do.

 

[MarcusRock]

It is your opinion that the on-field official didn't see the ball hit the ground. I don't believe the official who signaled it as a catch ever indicated that. Clearly, the ball came out when Dez hit the ground. The official could have seen what I saw, that Dez switched the ball from one hand to the other and lunged for the goal line.

It's irrelevant, though, since it is what it is, so there's no use rehashing this argument with you.

The official who signaled it as a catch isn't going to indicate that to anyone except the crew chief Steratore before the review. It's Steratore that speaks on behalf of the crew. Here's the angle taken from right behind the ref that people use to claim the ball never hit the ground. If you see this, it totally looks like Dez' hand kept the ball off the ground and he just pinned it to his shoulder pad before the ball rode up even more. However, the reverse angle clearly shows it did touch. I mean, right? And when GTTG is applied, switching hands (or more accurately here, deciding to take one hand off) is irrelevant. The ONLY thing that gets you out of going to the ground is a lunge (because that shows you aren't just falling, you're actually under control). Not an attempted lunge where your foot slips like here, but an actual one.

 

[MarcusRock]

Just an FYI @MarcusRock I lurk a lot more than I post so I can’t say we agree on everything but you’ve always stood out to me for keeping it real when it comes to the officiating whether it benefits the cowboys or not. 90% of us here want to see the Cowboys win but about half that number, if that, want to see it done fairly. I think the majority would take a win regardless of how obvious a penalty may or not be, that’s not my style.

I understand there will be missed calls, bad calls and almost always subjective calls in every game but the league needs to fix this, it ruins the “product”. I guarantee every play there are at least 2-3 penalties that could be called, it’s just whether they want to throw a flag or not. It’s partially on the refs and a lot on the league for making so many subjective rules to the point they might as well just play flag football.

IMO, we probably would have won either way (much closer) but it’s a fair question whether that non TD call changed the game enough that we may have lost. I promise you, if it went the other way, or if it was our RB who got that clear face mask last week and we lost, there would be 20 threads about the NFL “hates the Cowboys” and how we were robbed. When it’s the other way around I admire that yourself, and the others who have chimed in, at least acknowledge how bad the officiating was and clearly benefited us.

I guarantee one of these games it will be the other way around and the same people justifying and/or minimizing these obvious calls, or non calls, that hurt us will be the first ones starting threads and crying about it.

Just call 'em like I see 'em. Cowboys game threads, other games threads, it doesn't matter. It's football and it's the truth as I see it. It is funny though to watch those who don't even want to discuss the topic go straight for the "you're not a real fan" angle as if the "you can't sit with us at lunch" ostracizing thing still works past high school except on the likewise frail egoed who attempt it. But grunters are gonna do those things that make them grunters in the first place. Lol.

 

[Ranching]

Lol, “the call was made by those who were supposed to make it”. First of all, we all realize that but that isn’t what this thread is about, try to stay on topic or don’t “contribute”. Second of all, I guarantee if this call went the other way around your demeanor would be completely different and you would have plenty more to say about it.

Settle down Kmart.....I don't care about those calls...thread was did it cost Washington the game, others started crying about the call. Who cares??? We won, it's a done deal. You pissed off???? You're scary when you talk so tough....

 

[Illiniferret]

If anyone robbed the Commanders of a win it was Dan Quinn. Losing Daniels when they should have kicked a field goal was dumb.

 

[Vtwin]

The ONLY thing that gets you out of going to the ground is a lunge (because that shows you aren't just falling, you're actually under control). Not an attempted lunge where your foot slips like here, but an actual one.

Can you admit that there is a significant degree of subjectivity involved in interpreting this replay?

First, I would argue that a clearly attempted lunge is equal to a lunge as it still shows the ability and wherewithal to attempt it and the failure to complete it has nothing to do with possessing the ball. Somewhat like murder vs attempted murder.

Second, I would say that there is clear evidence that Dez did in fact execute a lunge. He took a couple steps and clearly managed to get some pushoff, indicated by the clod of dirt kicked up in the air (i.e physics) and his body clearly gained a bit of forward momentum, (more physics).

I have no interest in arguing with you over lunge vs no lunge or catch vs no catch. Can you at least admit that there is at least a reasonably reasonable argument to be made that there was a lunge, a football move and a catch?