Regarding Linehan

[Chocolate Lab]

your point being that garrett is on the last year of his deal? that he is or is not a lame duck coach? that he has not shaped the cowboys at all? IMO, yes he has done things...could wade Phillips have driven the bus at all? no, absolutely not, he was the stay-puft marshmallow man, he had no backbone as a HC...the last several coaches have not...even when parcells was there, jones was very involved...now, garrett is trying to put his stamp on the team and jones is still there, but unless you and others are hiding under a rock, jones has given up some of the responsibility for staffing to others, do you think that garrett had nothing to do with that? do you think he had nothing to do with linehan being brought in (as an example)?

Look, I know this can go on forever, and you can believe the Earth is flat if you want to. But what evidence is there for Garrett "showing more backbone" and having any more special or positive influence than any other coach?

In fact, you could make the argument he's shown less backbone than anyone else. Did Jerry march down on the field during a game to tell any other coach to take out the starting QB? No. Did he yank playcalling away from any other coach not once but twice? No. Did he fire the brother of any other coach? No. Did he call any other coach a trainee and admit that he'd made numerous coaching mistakes that cost us games? No.

Said it before and I'll say it again: If we had a coach who did the exact same things on and off the field but who was named John Smith, who went to school at Western Arizona, and who was a career backup for the Cardinals and not the Cowboys, people wouldn't be seeing all these imaginary positive qualities. But people want to believe, so they do.

 

[cowboyblue22]

who ever is falls on this team the last three years has been 8 and 8 and cannot find a andway to win a game to get into the playoffs. whoever it falls on coach gm or players they are not winners they are just 8 and 8 stuck in a rut

 

[gmoney112]

who ever is falls on this team the last three years has been 8 and 8 and cannot find a andway to win a game to get into the playoffs. whoever it falls on coach gm or players they are not winners they are just 8 and 8 stuck in a rut

"They aren't winners" is such a copout. Changing defensive schemes and significant roster turnover with marginal talent for the new scheme account for more than some are willing to admit. Get some consistency on the defensive side of the ball and accrue some more talent and you'll see a better team.

 

[visionary]

Look, I know this can go on forever, and you can believe the Earth is flat if you want to. But what evidence is there for Garrett "showing more backbone" and having any more special or positive influence than any other coach?

In fact, you could make the argument he's shown less backbone than anyone else. Did Jerry march down on the field during a game to tell any other coach to take out the starting QB? No. Did he yank playcalling away from any other coach not once but twice? No. Did he fire the brother of any other coach? No. Did he call any other coach a trainee and admit that he'd made numerous coaching mistakes that cost us games? No.

Said it before and I'll say it again: If we had a coach who did the exact same things on and off the field but who was named John Smith, who went to school at Western Arizona, and who was a career backup for the Cardinals and not the Cowboys, people wouldn't be seeing all these imaginary positive qualities. But people want to believe, so they do.

It is the whole hope and believe narrative
At what point do real results trump this crap?

No response from the Garrett faithful

 

[jobberone]

They are one and the same.

He is in the final year of his deal. And that fact makes him a lame duck.



He's been around and applied his flavor, just like Chan Gailey did, just like Dave Campo sort of did, just like Parcells did, just like Phillips did.



So the charm of Garrett continues to be he is better than Phillips? Even now? Are you serious?

Garrett has been in his position long enough. This upcoming season he will be around as long as Wade Phillips. Who, for some strange reason, gets demonized, but then Garrett gets a pass because of the supposed mess he left.

The mess was not created by either coach. Each man is trying is hardest to succeed under a horrific regime.



The point that is clearly escaping you is that if Garrett were getting the job done, he would not be operating in a one year window. What I, or anyone else has to say will not influence Jerry Jones.



I agree here. I am in full support of Jerry Jones in regards to Garrett's contract. He has to prove it. Prove he can operate and cope with the "ambiguity".

no it isn't one and the same. He has a good chance of being rehired next year. A lame duck is finishing out his term and will be gone at the end of his term/contract...period.

Jerry and Jason will decide if he's been around long enough. The bolded statement is absurd and is fatally flawed. The smart play for jerry is to see how the season progresses before even considering an extension for Jason. Doing so now is too late to issue a vote of confidence. Garrett needs to do reasonably well and that definition is per Jerry and some per Jason or what they agree to. There's nothing wrong with a put up or shut up contract. Jason hasn't set the world on fire since the first 3/4 of the 07 season. He needs to prove he can do that at a higher level over more than one year. I'm not convinced he can but also not convinced he can't.

But you are operating under some false pretenses and assumptions that aren't going work out well.

 

[jobberone]

It is the whole hope and believe narrative
At what point do real results trump this crap?

No response from the Garrett faithful

We aren't Garrett faithful but play those cards right up front. You don't care whether it's true or not IMO.

And you have no right to assume you know what we think and esp no right to tell us what we are thinking. Most of what you have to say doesn't require a response.

How about you play fair and respond to what we say and not what you beleive you think we believe. Deal in reality.

 

[Beast_from_East]

I bet you if he runs the ball and we are more effective, everyone will say, "See, garrett couldn't do it and we should have had an OC sooner, and Jerry did a great job brining in Linehan"

if he ends up passing more and sticking tot he passing game, the same group will say, this was the guy that garrett wanted and he wanted him to run his pass happy offense, and he put another nail in his coffin.

this is what you call a lose-lose situation.

and I am sure somebody will call me a Pro-Garrett fan, which I am not. just stating how its going to work out.

You just answered your own question. The fact that a new OC is being brought in and given carte blanch over play calling tells you all you need to know about the job Garrett is doing.

If your boss hired a new employee to start doing your work for you, do you think it is because he likes the job you are doing?

Pretty obvious the organization doesn't think Garrett can call the plays and be an effective head coach at the same time................probably all of his game day blunders (which Jerry acknowledged as "mistakes") has something to do with their thinking here. Sean Payton, Andy Reid, and Chip Kelley can all call plays and manage the game at the same time, Garrett cant.

 

[Beast_from_East]

If Linehan's influence results in wins for JG, I think he would take that (at this point for job security). It would result in another contract but I would gladly swallow my pride in exchange for a meaningful playoff appearance. Skeptics of JG can wish for the success of the team and still be critical of his "contribution."

Exactly.........I am probably Garrett's harshest critic on this board and I frankly think he is one of the worst head coaches in the NFL. However, I still root for the team and hope for wins.

I just understand that the team wins despite Garrett, not because of Garrett.

 

[Beast_from_East]

Lots of arguing going on in this thread...............LOL

Can we all agree on this............"in professional sports, ultimately the head coach is responsible for the performance of the team"

Regardless of injuries, scheduling, overbearing owner, poor drafts, bad officiating, little green men from mars, ect.......at some point Garrett is responsible for the performance of this team and in the major American sports leagues, performance is indicated by the win and loss record of the team. The fact is that Garrett is entering his 4th year as the head coach of this team and the team has failed to post a winning record under any previous season he has the been head coach. These are the facts, not insults, not personal attacks, not anti-Garrett, not pro-Garrett, these are simply the facts ultimately, this cannot continue.

Now as far as an extension goes, Jerry probably realizes that he cannot give a head coach that has missed the playoffs every single year he has been head coach an extension. Name me one coach in modern times (last 15 years or so) that has missed the playoffs 4 consecutive seasons in the NFL and was given an extension by their team.

 

[Idgit]

Lots of arguing going on in this thread...............LOL

Can we all agree on this............"in professional sports, ultimately the head coach is responsible for the performance of the team"

Regardless of injuries, scheduling, overbearing owner, poor drafts, bad officiating, little green men from mars, ect.......at some point Garrett is responsible for the performance of this team and in the major American sports leagues, performance is indicated by the win and loss record of the team. The fact is that Garrett is entering his 4th year as the head coach of this team and the team has failed to post a winning record under any previous season he has the been head coach. These are the facts, not insults, not personal attacks, not anti-Garrett, not pro-Garrett, these are simply the facts ultimately, this cannot continue.

Now as far as an extension goes, Jerry probably realizes that he cannot give a head coach that has missed the playoffs every single year he has been head coach an extension. Name me one coach in modern times (last 15 years or so) that has missed the playoffs 4 consecutive seasons in the NFL and was given an extension by their team.

We're not going to agree on Garrett, but I wouldn't dispute anything you say here. At some point, the won-loss record matters. He was lucky to get this fourth year.

 

[BigStar]

Exactly.........I am probably Garrett's harshest critic on this board and I frankly think he is one of the worst head coaches in the NFL. However, I still root for the team and hope for wins.

I just understand that the team wins despite Garrett, not because of Garrett.

We're on the same page

 

[jobberone]

Lots of arguing going on in this thread...............LOL

Can we all agree on this............"in professional sports, ultimately the head coach is responsible for the performance of the team"

Regardless of injuries, scheduling, overbearing owner, poor drafts, bad officiating, little green men from mars, ect.......at some point Garrett is responsible for the performance of this team and in the major American sports leagues, performance is indicated by the win and loss record of the team. The fact is that Garrett is entering his 4th year as the head coach of this team and the team has failed to post a winning record under any previous season he has the been head coach. These are the facts, not insults, not personal attacks, not anti-Garrett, not pro-Garrett, these are simply the facts ultimately, this cannot continue.

Now as far as an extension goes, Jerry probably realizes that he cannot give a head coach that has missed the playoffs every single year he has been head coach an extension. Name me one coach in modern times (last 15 years or so) that has missed the playoffs 4 consecutive seasons in the NFL and was given an extension by their team.

At some point you have to win.....at some point being the key phrase. We agree on that. Where you set that point should be from an objective analysis of the team. Would another coach have gotten me to the promised land with the same assets and liabilities as this one? Is it a problem with acquiring assets and keeping them which is the GMs role or is it a failure to use his tools properly?

I wouldn't look at the issue so simply as to say well he's had three years and he's not produced so he's got to go.

I don't read anything into the extension. Jerry is handling it perfectly. I wouldn't assume because he didn't get an extension then he's a goner. I also would look at it as well I haven't had success so they aren't going to hand me an extension. Nor would I assume he has to produce a 'winner' this year.

 

[Beast_from_East]

At some point you have to win.....at some point being the key phrase. We agree on that. Where you set that point should be from an objective analysis of the team. Would another coach have gotten me to the promised land with the same assets and liabilities as this one? Is it a problem with acquiring assets and keeping them which is the GMs role or is it a failure to use his tools properly?

I wouldn't look at the issue so simply as to say well he's had three years and he's not produced so he's got to go.

I don't read anything into the extension. Jerry is handling it perfectly. I wouldn't assume because he didn't get an extension then he's a goner. I also would look at it as well I haven't had success so they aren't going to hand me an extension. Nor would I assume he has to produce a 'winner' this year.

I think most people would agree that 4 years is enough time to show that your program leads to tangible signs of success, mainly wins. If you cannot make the playoffs in 4 consecutive years, I think most rational people would say it is time to move on.

Like I said in my post, name me one head coach in the NFL in the last 15 years that missed the playoffs 4 consecutive seasons in a row and was rewarded with a new contract.

 

[Fredd]

I think most people would agree that 4 years is enough time to show that your program leads to tangible signs of success, mainly wins. If you cannot make the playoffs in 4 consecutive years, I think most rational people would say it is time to move on.

Like I said in my post, name me one head coach in the NFL in the last 15 years that missed the playoffs 4 consecutive seasons in a row and was rewarded with a new contract.

I will agree that if they don't make the playoffs this year, then he has to go...4 years is a long time with nibbling at the playoffs and not making it...the injuries are a small part of why they haven't been in as well, but there are no excuses any longer...if they don't get in, then he should go...if they have injuries again, then I will fault him for not getting enough depth on the roster to compete...

playoffs and you get to coach the team in 2015...no playoffs and time to update your resume...I won't care that he has made changes to the team, if those changes fail to bring the playoffs at the end of this season, sayonara

 

[Idgit]

I think most people would agree that 4 years is enough time to show that your program leads to tangible signs of success, mainly wins. If you cannot make the playoffs in 4 consecutive years, I think most rational people would say it is time to move on.

Like I said in my post, name me one head coach in the NFL in the last 15 years that missed the playoffs 4 consecutive seasons in a row and was rewarded with a new contract.

It all depends why you're missing the playoffs. You'd have a hard time finding a team that missed out in three division crowns in a row after a team implosion--to three different division rivals--too. That's a different circumstance from just not qualifying because you're not competitive.

And Dallas' situation is different, too, in that there's not a GM here looking over his shoulder for his own job.

 

[jobberone]

I think most people would agree that 4 years is enough time to show that your program leads to tangible signs of success, mainly wins. If you cannot make the playoffs in 4 consecutive years, I think most rational people would say it is time to move on.

Like I said in my post, name me one head coach in the NFL in the last 15 years that missed the playoffs 4 consecutive seasons in a row and was rewarded with a new contract.

Depends on where they started and what has held them back. You started off with wins and now wins with playoffs in a 4 year window. Actually normally I'd loosely agree with that. There hasn't been anything normal with this franchise for awhile. If you want someone to fix it then you're going to have to be more patient. IMO. You can't absorb the hits on defense we've had and now have to rebuild it due to loss of some players to age/injury but also cap casualties. And the latter is on the GM and has been for some time. So Jerry may feel the way you do which I don't find particularly unreasonable in general but unreasonable in this instance.

Why limit this to four years and the last 15 years and just coaches? Denver, NYG, and Philly all had 17 year playoff droughts. NO 20 and Wash and Ariz 25. Kubiak missed the playoffs his first five years as coach of the Texans BTW. He signed a three year contract extension in Feb 2010 with one year left on his original contract.

 

[Beast_from_East]

Depends on where they started and what has held them back. You started off with wins and now wins with playoffs in a 4 year window. Actually normally I'd loosely agree with that. There hasn't been anything normal with this franchise for awhile. If you want someone to fix it then you're going to have to be more patient. IMO. You can't absorb the hits on defense we've had and now have to rebuild it due to loss of some players to age/injury but also cap casualties. And the latter is on the GM and has been for some time. So Jerry may feel the way you do which I don't find particularly unreasonable in general but unreasonable in this instance.

Why limit this to four years and the last 15 years and just coaches? Denver, NYG, and Philly all had 17 year playoff droughts. NO 20 and Wash and Ariz 25. Kubiak missed the playoffs his first five years as coach of the Texans BTW. He signed a three year contract extension in Feb 2010 with one year left on his original contract.

I think Jerry is going to have a hell of a time trying to sell the fan base on an extension for Garrett if we miss the playoffs again. I really cant see Jerry calling a press conference and handing Garrett a fresh new extension just after missing the playoffs for the 4 consecutive season.

Maybe you and Idgit are right and Jerry will not care about the fan backlash. I still think Jerry cares what the fans think, he may not admit it, but I think on some level he cares about being booed in his own stadium and it will only be 1000 times worse if he gives Garrett a new contract after missing the playoffs 4 consecutive seasons in a row.

I guess we shall see.................of course Garrett could lead this team to the playoffs and make all this a moot point.

 

[jobberone]

I think Jerry is going to have a hell of a time trying to sell the fan base on an extension for Garrett if we miss the playoffs again. I really cant see Jerry calling a press conference and handing Garrett a fresh new extension just after missing the playoffs for the 4 consecutive season.

Maybe you and Idgit are right and Jerry will not care about the fan backlash. I still think Jerry cares what the fans think, he may not admit it, but I think on some level he cares about being booed in his own stadium and it will only be 1000 times worse if he gives Garrett a new contract after missing the playoffs 4 consecutive seasons in a row.

I guess we shall see.................of course Garrett could lead this team to the playoffs and make all this a moot point.

I haven't made any prognostications. I have no idea what Jerry will do. For me I would have to sit down and look at all the reasons we didn't go to the playoffs and ask myself how much of that is on coaching. I'd also have to see significant improvements on defense and some on offense which I think will be harder to do. I don't care whether Garrett is coach of the Cowboys or not but I do care we stop playing coaches on a carousel. There are so many things the FO has to do for this club to become a consistent contender and that's one of them. They appear to be drafting better although that needs improvement. They also need to get out of cap jail. You can't have so much on the books you can't make reasonable contract offers to retain good players or not be able to plug one or two hole judiciously with a FA now and then. We've been in it so long we don't know what it's like to have a reasonable cap debt.

I don't know if Garrett is THE answer or not but I don't see him as being the largest input into why we're not breaking out of mediocre and that's taking into consideration him possibly losing a game here and there due to play calling or poor decisions. I'm certain some are on him. We don't get to see the other things that coaches do to contribute to not winning. We just aren't privy to them. I'm concerned with what appears to me to be opponents jumping routes. That's a coaching problem even if there is a player tell.

Likely no matter what happens even getting into the playoffs I'd have to see a bit of progress on the offense and a lot on the defense.

 

[Idgit]

I think Jerry is going to have a hell of a time trying to sell the fan base on an extension for Garrett if we miss the playoffs again. I really cant see Jerry calling a press conference and handing Garrett a fresh new extension just after missing the playoffs for the 4 consecutive season.

Maybe you and Idgit are right and Jerry will not care about the fan backlash. I still think Jerry cares what the fans think, he may not admit it, but I think on some level he cares about being booed in his own stadium and it will only be 1000 times worse if he gives Garrett a new contract after missing the playoffs 4 consecutive seasons in a row.

I guess we shall see.................of course Garrett could lead this team to the playoffs and make all this a moot point.

I don't claim to guess what Jerry's thinking, but my guess is any extension for Garrett would be a two year deal signed at some point during the season when things look relatively rosey. You're right that he won't do it at season end and let it look bad.

I'm not saying he'll do it at all, either. Only guessing how it would go down if it were to happen.

 

[ElGatoGrande]

When we see persons of worth, we should think of equaling them; when we see persons of a contrary character, we should turn inwards and examine ourselves.
Confucius