Running game is why the defense looks better

gmoney112 said:
Actually, we are top 10 in points allowed per drive.

And to answer your other question, you accurately judge a defense by how they perform when the opposing team has the ball.

We're also #4 in TO's per drive.

We allow 5.5 plays for their offense on average per drive, which is good for #6 in the NFL.

And our defense holds opposing offenses to an average of 2.32 minutes of possession per drive. #6 in the NFL in that

So we're 6th in how many plays we let opposing offenses run when they have the ball, 6th in how long we let them have the ball, and top 10 in points we let them score every time they have the ball.

I'm not saying running the ball doesn't help the defense, but these are facts. I'd say those are pretty damn good.
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Point. Set. Match.
 
jday said:
The whole thought process behind the Tampa 2 / attacking 43 is Bend, don't Break. What do you think "bend, don't break" means?
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In a way, the problem is that it's not clear what it means. Your prior post suggests you think it means that the D is "forcing the opponent to play perfect football for an extended drive." As 'nabby suggests, that doesn't appear to be what's happening. If it were, we'd expect to see a high number of plays surrendered per drive (that's just what "an extended drive" means, no?). But as gmoney and Percy have demonstrated, we rank 6th in the league in fewest plays surrendered per drive at 5.5.

In other words, it seems fair to suggest that the defense isn't "breaking", since it currently ranks 9th in points surrrendered per drive; the problem with what you're proposing is that it isn't really "bending" all that much either.
 
jday said:
The whole thought process behind the Tampa 2 / attacking 43 is Bend, don't Break. What do you think "bend, don't break" means? I assure you, it has nothing to do with remaining healthy.
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There's a substantial discrepancy between Dallas's defensive yards per drive (14th) and points per drive (9th). You're positing a reason for such a discrepancy: the bend don't break style of the Tampa 2. Looking back at the heyday of the Buccaneers Tampa 2, however, we see no such discrepancy. Every year from '99 to '02, their yards per drive and points per drive numbers were virtually the same (in terms of ranking). The '10-'12 Bears had one year with a similar discrepancy, but they also generated massive numbers of turnovers (making them different from our current defense) and the other years don't look like that. I simply don't see a lot of support for the idea that this discrepancy really is typical of our style of defense or sustainable. I'd be interested in seeing supporting evidence.

Of course, as I said, it's also possible the defense will start playing better, with Carter and Lawrence and maybe others showing up, and the numbers will normalize in that direction. We shall see.
 
To break down the yards per play more (for those concerned):

1st Half 5.42
2nd half/OT 6.54

The 2nd half breaks down:

TEN 8.79
NOR 8.76
HOU 7.63
STL 6.66
NYG 5.76
SEA 3.97
SF 3.97

Worst Offenders

TEN
3rd Quarter 10
4th Quarter 7.17

NOR
3rd 8.85
4th 10.18

HOU
3rd 10.56
4th 6.74

STL
3rd 7.63
4th 5.32

Half of those games Dallas had at least a 2 score lead in the 2nd half. Were they playing a little less aggressive to protect the lead in the 2nd half against TEN and NOR? Maybe. Would explain the YPP increase against NOR (5.18 1st half) and TEN (3.24 1st half). Bend don't break possibly.

The other half... I don't know. Bad games?

As a note... I don't care about yards. They could give up 1000 a game as long as they win.
 
DanteEXT said:
To break down the yards per play more (for those concerned):

1st Half 5.42
2nd half/OT 6.54

The 2nd half breaks down:

TEN 8.79
NOR 8.76
HOU 7.63
STL 6.66
NYG 5.76
SEA 3.97
SF 3.97

Worst Offenders

TEN
3rd Quarter 10
4th Quarter 7.17

NOR
3rd 8.85
4th 10.18

HOU
3rd 10.56
4th 6.74

STL
3rd 7.63
4th 5.32

Half of those games Dallas had at least a 2 score lead in the 2nd half. Were they playing a little less aggressive to protect the lead in the 2nd half against TEN and NOR? Maybe. Would explain the YPP increase against NOR (5.18 1st half) and TEN (3.24 1st half). Bend don't break possibly.

The other half... I don't know. Bad games?

As a note... I don't care about yards. They could give up 1000 a game as long as they win.
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Factor in games and/or halves where we were missing some combination of McClain, Carter and Durant.
 
The run game and TOP has of course helped this defense. However, just by the eye test this is clearly a much improved D from last season.
 
The relatively high YPP and yards per drive numbers, when combined with the low play per drive numbers, indicate that we're giving up some big plays. Opponents aren't consistently getting chunks against us that move the chains or we'd be seeing more plays per drive. Rather, they're hitting some big plays on occasion, which drive up the yards per play and yards per drive surrendered, but not with enough frequency to sustain drives.

If by "bend but don't break" one means "surrender the occasional big play, but prioritize getting off the field and limiting points", it does therefore appear that our D is "bend but don't break". If, in contrast, "bend but don't break" means something like "force the opponent to play perfect football for an extended drive", it doesn't fit this D.
 
blindzebra said:
Factor in games and/or halves where we were missing some combination of McClain, Carter and Durant.
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C'mon BZ I'm no percy :D

Ok, Durant missed TEN and STL
McClain missed STL
Carter missed HOU, SEA and NYG

Not sure about when they got hurt in the games though
 
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ScipioCowboy said:
Point. Set. Match.
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The thing of it is...and you saw this against Seattle...Dallas is a highly disciplined and well coached unit at the moment. If you watched how ragged and undisciplined Washington was in the week before (against Seattle), you get some idea of why this unit is overachieving this year. Marinelli has really put his imprint on those guys and there has been complete, unadulterated buy-in at every position...or so it seems. These guys believe in what they are doing and they can become better by years end. Now...if they can just stay reasonably healthy down the stretch...
 
Outlaw Heroes said:
In a way, the problem is that it's not clear what it means. Your prior post suggests you think it means that the D is "forcing the opponent to play perfect football for an extended drive." As 'nabby suggests, that doesn't appear to be what's happening. If it were, we'd expect to see a high number of plays surrendered per drive (that's just what "an extended drive" means, no?). But as gmoney and Percy have demonstrated, we rank 6th in the league in fewest plays surrendered per drive at 5.5.

In other words, it seems fair to suggest that the defense isn't "breaking", since it currently ranks 9th in points surrrendered per drive; the problem with what you're proposing is that it isn't really "bending" all that much either.
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That was a well thought-out lucid response. The bend don't break mantra is simply a design; that doesnt' necessarily suggest that offenses will always simply take what is given to them, especially when playing from behind, which has been the case for the opposition the majority of the time. Having said that, yielding a high number of yards per play and yet only surrendering a small average of points per game is the end result bend dont' break is supposed to accomplish.
 
Some further granularity:

  • The D is only 21st in punts forced per drive (.384) and 22nd in 3-and-outs per drive (.178). These numbers indicate that the D`s relative success in ending opponents` drives early (as measured by TOP per drive and plays per drive) may be more a function of being able to take the ball away than a function of forcing them to give it back on 4th down. The D ranks 4th in turnovers per drive (.164), as gmoney previously indicated.

  • The D is 14th in points allowed per trip to the red zone (4.84) but only 18th in TDs allowed per trip to the redzone (.579). It seems we`re making up ground on other teams in points per red zone trip as a result of fewer red zone trips resulting in field goals against. Not sure if this is the result of the D taking the ball away in the red zone (something for which the D would obviously deserve credit) or if it is the result of FG misses (no credit, obviously) or blocks (credit to ST, not defense).

 
jimnabby said:
There's a substantial discrepancy between Dallas's defensive yards per drive (14th) and points per drive (9th). You're positing a reason for such a discrepancy: the bend don't break style of the Tampa 2. Looking back at the heyday of the Buccaneers Tampa 2, however, we see no such discrepancy. Every year from '99 to '02, their yards per drive and points per drive numbers were virtually the same (in terms of ranking). The '10-'12 Bears had one year with a similar discrepancy, but they also generated massive numbers of turnovers (making them different from our current defense) and the other years don't look like that. I simply don't see a lot of support for the idea that this discrepancy really is typical of our style of defense or sustainable. I'd be interested in seeing supporting evidence.

Of course, as I said, it's also possible the defense will start playing better, with Carter and Lawrence and maybe others showing up, and the numbers will normalize in that direction. We shall see.
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I'm loving the discussion on this thread. Yet another well thought out response.

To your response – I’m not sure looking at other teams who have employed this style of defense is really comparable, because they had different levels of talent and different tendencies/strengths/weaknesses. The Buccaneers in their heyday actually had a dominant defense and their offense was average to below average, so they absolutely had to win with the defense.

The Cowboys have a different situation. They have an offense that can be dominant, so the approach for the defense is completely different than other teams. But the reason we are seeing a high average of yards per play and at the same time a respectable amount of point allowed per game as compared to the rest of the league is as a result of the bend don’t break philosophy.

The other telling stat that further supports this argument is the number of plays over 20 yards the Cowboys defense has allowed: The Cowboys currently rank 2nd in the league in terms of fewest 20 + yard plays allowed with only 16.
 
jday said:
The Cowboys currently rank 2nd in the league in terms of fewest 20 + yard plays allowed with only 16.
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My guess is that the ranking would suffer a bit if 20+ yd plays surrendered was expressed on a per play basis. I would also expect the average yardage surrendered by our D on 20+ yard plays to be high, relative to the league average. Again, just guesses based upon what the other data suggests.
 
Outlaw Heroes said:
It seems we`re making up ground on other teams in points per red zone trip as a result of fewer red zone trips resulting in field goals against. Not sure if this is the result of the D taking the ball away in the red zone (something for which the D would obviously deserve credit) or if it is the result of FG misses (no credit, obviously) or blocks (credit to ST, not defense).
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We don't have any red-zone turnovers yet, but we have two red-zone stops on fourth downs. Only Denver has more (three), and only four other defenses have two. Thirteen teams have one, and 13 teams have none so far.

Our opponents have missed one field goal from inside the 20 (the 49ers in the opener). Seven other defenses have had opponents miss one, and three teams have had opponents miss two.
 
jday said:
The whole thought process behind the Tampa 2 / attacking 43 is Bend, don't Break. What do you think "bend, don't break" means? I assure you, it has nothing to do with remaining healthy.
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:laugh:
 
AdamJT13 said:
We don't have any red-zone turnovers yet, but we have two red-zone stops on fourth downs. Only Denver has more (three), and only four other defenses have two. Thirteen teams have one, and 13 teams have none so far.

Our opponents have missed one field goal from inside the 20 (the 49ers in the opener). Seven other defenses have had opponents miss one, and three teams have had opponents miss two.
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Thanks. I overlooked turnovers on downs. Very helpful.
 
Outlaw Heroes said:
Thanks. I hope you didn`t think I was suggesting you dig up the data for me. In any case, that site appears not to offer the data.
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No...just trying to be helpful...if they dont' have it, not sure where.
 
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