We picked Escobar at 47, Pitt grabbed Bell at 48

[CowboysFaninHouston]

Well it didn't make sense to me when Witten was not even 31 yet when Escobar was drafted. Witten has been very durable missing only one game his entire career and TE's can play effectively into their mid to late 30's. I gave a very thorough explanation as to why the pick didn't make sense and I'm not going to waste my time arguing it any further.




Fasano graded out to be the best blocking TE in the draft which is why the Cowboys drafted him and although he reminded Parcells of Mark Bavaro his primary job was to block in a 2 TE offense for Bledsoe. Like I said when Bledsoe was benched in favor of Romo Fasano became expendable which is why he was traded after only 2 seasons and the Cowboys burned another #2 on Bennett who they saw as a better pass receiver. I'm not going to continue arguing this any further.




A player doesn't have to have the same injury repeatedly to be injury prone. A variety of injuries that keep happening makes a player injury prone. That's my opinion and if you don't agree fine.

sorry. we agree to disagree. I go back to the comments that he brass was concerned about witten and wanted to draft his replacement and thus their pick of escobar. again, as I have said repeatedly...if the choice was between TE & RB, taking a TE made sense. if its between TE, and other positions, I would say there were several other higher priority positions we could have drafted.

regarding your comment on injury...is sean lee injury prone? probably. is murray injury prone? probably not. is miles Austin injury prone? yes. I think it depends. its not a hard and fast rule how we label someone.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

None of that has anything to do with my point. I am specifically saying an Escobar vs Bell discussion is pointless. The real point is we need to be spending that 2nd rounder on someone that will get reps, if it's Escobar then so be it, but use him. If it had been Bell, then use him. If you aren't going to use them, don't draft them.

I don't disagree with your point and if you read my other responses, you would know that I have made the same argument that we had other priority needs than TE.

. the comment I made in bell vs. escobar was to those two exactly, some one suggesting taking bell over escobar made more sense, which I fully disagree with.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

Youre the one making it a fuss...by repeating the same points over and over. Poll the board if you need, see who thinks TE made sense, most wont care but....NO ONE liked this pick. Witten will be on this roster at least another 2 years barring major injury. Guess what? Escobar's rookie contract is up then too, will he have shown enough to resign him? If we were looking for eventual replacements it made far more sense to start looking at one for (insert starting FS) ,Ware, & Romo.

In your earlier responses to me you didnt understand why I was gaga for Bell & stated how all these other positions made sense over RB...I never claimed either. Im not gaga for Bell and I already said on the first page of this thread we wouldnt know what we had anyway (what he is today for Pitt). I also said we had other immediate needs, but if you went to secondary needs (outside of the obvious at the time)...in the 2nd round (as we did) Bell (or another RB) made more sense over a TE. The "neither was a #1 back" isnt much of a defense when no one saw Escobar as an immediate challenge for time/replacement for Witten either.

Murray has been prone to injury since college. Im a Sooner fan, even though I loved the pick, I didnt think he would be the long term answer. I love the guy and what he has done this year, but this year (a contract year, go figure) is the first time he has played a full season (knock on wood). There was no reason to believe last year was going to be any different which is why we grabbed Randle later, who had fell, and was great value. You say it made sense, I say the LAST 3 TE PICKS (and the other 2nd we gave away for Claiborne, not to mention the 1st) are reasons there are and have been so many holes in this defense.

holy cr@p. I am not making a fuss. there is plenty of posts that I had responded to with people saying that taking bell over escobar makes more sense and I fully disagree. taking another positions over a TE, I fully agree with it and I made that point on multiple responses.

 

[KJJ]

sorry. we agree to disagree. I go back to the comments that he brass was concerned about witten and wanted to draft his replacement and thus their pick of escobar. again, as I have said repeatedly...if the choice was between TE & RB, taking a TE made sense. if its between TE, and other positions, I would say there were several other higher priority positions we could have drafted.

regarding your comment on injury...is sean lee injury prone? probably. is murray injury prone? probably not. is miles Austin injury prone? yes. I think it depends. its not a hard and fast rule how we label someone.

I don't believe for one second that Escobar was drafted to replace Witten. He was the 3rd TE the Cowboys burned a #2 on since 06. They keep drafting these TE's to play along with Witten as part of a 2 TE offense and they're just wasting the picks. Let's agree to disagree and move on we're just wasting time. As for Murray being injury prone until this season he had been missing games in each of his first 3 seasons. He was injury prone in college which why he slid to the 3rd round. Again let's agree to disagree and move on.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

I don't believe for one second that Escobar was drafted to replace Witten. He was the 3rd TE the Cowboys burned a #2 on since 06. They keep drafting these TE's to play along with Witten as part of a 2 TE offense and they're just wasting the picks. Let's agree to disagree and move on we're just wasting time. As for Murray being injury prone until this season he had been missing games in each of his first 3 seasons. He was injury prone in college which why he slid to the 3rd round. Again let's agree to disagree and move on.

I disagree. perhaps he was drafted to play along side witten short term, but also as the long term replacement. and billicheck spent a lot of picks on TEs as well until he found the right ones so if you miss do you stop trying?

 

[KJJ]

I disagree. perhaps he was drafted to play along side witten short term, but also as the long term replacement. and billicheck spent a lot of picks on TEs as well until he found the right ones so if you miss do you stop trying?

I said Witten is only 32 and Escobar has almost completed his second season. By the time the Cowboys move on from Witten Escobar will be long gone because like Marty B he'll want to go where he'll be given an opportunity to start. Like I said TE's can play effectively into their mid and upper 30's and with Witten being Romo's security blanket the Cowboys won't be fazing him out anytime soon. As for Belichick how many 2nd round picks has he burned on TE's that didn't pan out since 06?

He drafted Aaron Hernandez in the 4th round in 2010 and got more out of him than the Cowboys got out of Fasano, Bennett and Escobar. Belichick drafted Gronk in the 2nd round in the same draft he got Hernandez because he was looking for a starter. The Pats have had outstanding teams and Belichick certainly wouldn't have been wasting #2 picks on TE's every few years if he had the mediocre teams and the defensive holes the Cowboys have had.

 

[Craig]

Bell is the best back in the league. I dont really care though, the mistake was t missing bell, it was missing defense.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

I said Witten is only 32 and Escobar has almost completed his second season. By the time the Cowboys move on from Witten Escobar will be long gone because like Marty B he'll want to go where he'll be given an opportunity to start. Like I said TE's can play effectively into their mid and upper 30's and with Witten being Romo's security blanket the Cowboys won't be fazing him out anytime soon. As for Belichick how many 2nd round picks has he burned on TE's that didn't pan out since 06?

He drafted Aaron Hernandez in the 4th round in 2010 and got more out of him than the Cowboys got out of Fasano, Bennett and Escobar. Belichick drafted Gronk in the 2nd round in the same draft he got Hernandez because he was looking for a starter. The Pats have had outstanding teams and Belichick certainly wouldn't have been wasting #2 picks on TE's every few years if he had the mediocre teams and the defensive holes the Cowboys have had.

New England has drafted a TE
2011
2010 (2)
2006
2005
2004

hernandez fell to the4thround because of character concerns. he slso brought in some free agents in between.

I can give you a list of failed TEs in the league that were drafted higher than Bennett, fasano and escobar. that means nothing.

and once again. not sure how many times I have to say it.

the argument is not if TE was the right pick, vs. DT, DE, OL, etc.

the argument was that we should have picked bell....if you tell me pick RB over TE in the second round.I would say a mistake every time. because it would be the stupid thing to do. all other picks are up for argument and debate.

but you keep wanting to change the context. would picking a RB over a TE been a better decision?
Yes
NO

there is no other answer.

 

[KJJ]

New England has drafted a TE
2011
2010 (2)
2006
2005
2004

hernandez fell to the4thround because of character concerns. he slso brought in some free agents in between.

I can give you a list of failed TEs in the league that were drafted higher than Bennett, fasano and escobar. that means nothing.

and once again. not sure how many times I have to say it.

the argument is not if TE was the right pick, vs. DT, DE, OL, etc.

the argument was that we should have picked bell....if you tell me pick RB over TE in the second round.I would say a mistake every time. because it would be the stupid thing to do. all other picks are up for argument and debate.

but you keep wanting to change the context. would picking a RB over a TE been a better decision?
Yes
NO

there is no other answer.

If you want to waste time and argue try following the discussion and stop diverting. I didn't ask how many TE's failed who were drafted higher than Fasano, Bennett and Escobar. You're the one who brought up Belichick drafting TE's and we're keeping the discussion right there. I asked how many #2's did NE burn on TE's since 06 who didn't pan out? Answer the question or move on! They used a #2 in 2010 on Gronk who's one of the top TE's in the league. Belichick was smart enough to use a premium pick on a starting TE in the 2nd round and a 4th rounder on a TE to compliment them. The fact Hernandez fell to the 4th round made him a good value pick and he produced along with Gronk for 3 seasons until he ended up in jail.

I stated on draft day 2013 that I would have taken Eddie Lacy in the 2nd round over Escobar or any TE in that draft. TE was the last position I would have drafted in the 2nd round. Since Fasano left Dallas he's been a serviceable player who did a lot more in Miami and KC than he ever did in Dallas because he's been given the opportunity. Since Bennett left Dallas he's caught 197 passes for 2206 yards and 16 TD's. He's having a more productive season than Witten this year and is only 179 yards short of a 1000 yard season. His 77 receptions are just 5 shy of what Dez has this season. Once you get past Dez Bennett's numbers would blow away the rest of the Cowboys receivers.

 

[Dirtjunkie]

It was confusing pick but I will say if Dallas didn't have Witten I think Escobar would actually be pretty good player.

That is exactly what I was wondering. No knock on either, but when you're playing behind a future possible HOF, how much time do you really expect? Although I thought we would be in more two tight end sets, but then what about DEZ? Such a conundrum, albeit a sweet one.... But don't waste him, like Bennett...

 

[Hostile]

This guy Leveon Bell has been nothing short of incredible. Imagine if we'd picked him up.

Still on a rookie contract, we'd be able to pay Dez, let Murray walk and pay some of our other FAs.

Just sayin....

You know what's worse? The worst rushing team in the NFL is the Raiders. They passed on him twice for D.J. Hayden and Menelik Watson. If you don't know who they are it sort of proves the point. At least we had Murray. They really don't have an excuse.

 

[Risen Star]

You know what's worse? The worst rushing team in the NFL is the Raiders. They passed on him twice for D.J. Hayden and Menelik Watson. If you don't know who they are it sort of proves the point. At least we had Murray. They really don't have an excuse.

Yeah but this is a Cowboys board and we're talking about the Cowboys making a mistake and taking an inferior player.

 

[Hostile]

Yeah but this is a Cowboys board and we're talking about the Cowboys making a mistake and taking an inferior player.

So am I.

The 2nd worst rushing team in the NFL is the Buccaneers. They passed on him once and took Jonathon Banks. I know how you feel about CBs so that one likely boils your blood.

The Lions, the 3rd worst rushing team took a CB too. They redeemed themselves though by taking a DE with the 5th pick.

Don't these teams realize they needed RBs?

 

[Risen Star]

So am I.

The 2nd worst rushing team in the NFL is the Buccaneers. They passed on him once and took Jonathon Banks. I know how you feel about CBs so that one likely boils your blood.

The Lions, the 3rd worst rushing team took a CB too. They redeemed themselves though by taking a DE with the 5th pick.

Don't these teams realize they needed RBs?

I don't know. I don't justify mistakes by saying others made them too.

Let's talk about the Cowboys missing out on a bell cow RB for a backup TE. Are you capable?

 

[egn22]

Why troll the thread though? If you prefer Escobar over Bell, just say that.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

If you want to waste time and argue try following the discussion and stop diverting. I didn't ask how many TE's failed who were drafted higher than Fasano, Bennett and Escobar. You're the one who brought up Belichick drafting TE's and we're keeping the discussion right there. I asked how many #2's did NE burn on TE's since 06 who didn't pan out? Answer the question or move on! They used a #2 in 2010 on Gronk who's one of the top TE's in the league. Belichick was smart enough to use a premium pick on a starting TE in the 2nd round and a 4th rounder on a TE to compliment them. The fact Hernandez fell to the 4th round made him a good value pick and he produced along with Gronk for 3 seasons until he ended up in jail.

I stated on draft day 2013 that I would have taken Eddie Lacy in the 2nd round over Escobar or any TE in that draft. TE was the last position I would have drafted in the 2nd round. Since Fasano left Dallas he's been a serviceable player who did a lot more in Miami and KC than he ever did in Dallas because he's been given the opportunity. Since Bennett left Dallas he's caught 197 passes for 2206 yards and 16 TD's. He's having a more productive season than Witten this year and is only 179 yards short of a 1000 yard season. His 77 receptions are just 5 shy of what Dez has this season. Once you get past Dez Bennett's numbers would blow away the rest of the Cowboys receivers.

this debate is done.

 

[Hostile]

Why troll the thread though? If you prefer Escobar over Bell, just say that.

I don't prefer him over Bell. I just don't think it really matters. The fact is if we had taken a RB at that point he would either not be having the success Bell is right now, or he would be, and Murray would be being called a bust. It's a self fulfilling thing to whine about.

Every damned team in the NFL passes on talented players to take someone they have rated high, and they miss out. Sometimes it is when they have a glaring need themselves. Why pretend otherwise?

The fact of the matter is, we didn't need Bell. I say we didn't need Escobar either. We took him. He's played well for us in his role here. He might be the guy who replaces Witten. By taking Bell it would have been just another thing to gripe about whether it is him or Murray, because no way on this earth both backs would be doing what they are right now on the same team.

Therefore, I don't regret passing on Bell, even though I liked him a lot and still do.

 

[Hostile]

I don't know. I don't justify mistakes by saying others made them too.

Let's talk about the Cowboys missing out on a bell cow RB for a backup TE. Are you capable?

I didn't justify anything except in your overly sensitive mind. I merely am making the point that RB wasn't exactly a glaring need for us either and other teams who did have a glaring need passed on this player. Come to think of it, don't the Lions play in Michigan? The same state where this kid played college football? I bet their fans are pissed.

 

[KJJ]

this debate is done.

I figured my last post would put an end to it. It could have ended sooner if you would have just agreed to disagree like I suggested.

 

[egn22]

I don't prefer him over Bell. I just don't think it really matters. The fact is if we had taken a RB at that point he would either not be having the success Bell is right now, or he would be, and Murray would be being called a bust. It's a self fulfilling thing to whine about.

Every damned team in the NFL passes on talented players to take someone they have rated high, and they miss out. Sometimes it is when they have a glaring need themselves. Why pretend otherwise?

The fact of the matter is, we didn't need Bell. I say we didn't need Escobar either. We took him. He's played well for us in his role here. He might be the guy who replaces Witten. By taking Bell it would have been just another thing to gripe about whether it is him or Murray, because no way on this earth both backs would be doing what they are right now on the same team.

Therefore, I don't regret passing on Bell, even though I liked him a lot and still do.

That's the problem with this site though, everything seems too sacred to discuss. Whining about thread topics and trade discussion and thread merging, when in reality this is what most guys discuss amongst their friends.

It's not griping if I'm saying "wow I just realized we were one pick away from this guy and opted for Escobar instead".

That's me pointing something out and opening it up for discussion. 9 pages deep I see people are either very interested In The topic or overly critical of the discussion itself.

Either way my job here is done. I shared my opinion and got everyone thinking about it. Go Cowboys