We picked Escobar at 47, Pitt grabbed Bell at 48

[CowboysFaninHouston]

If you have 2 good backs you run them both.
You don't sit a RB you spent a high draft pick on. Especially one as good as bell. There is no reason to not give him any carries. None. He would offer something murray cant. Make guys miss in space and take it to the house. As well as being able to pass protect and catch the ball out of the backfield.

its not a question of having two good RB and running them both..its a argument if picking a RB in the 2nd round would have been a good idea?

so last year where would you rank RB in terms of team needs? for us to have spent a 2nd round pick?

is it a bigger need than a 10 year vet TE? OL? DT? DE? LB? CB? Saftey? WR? would we all not gotten upset for picking a RB over any of those positions? where does RB rank for a 2nd round pick (yes rounds matter).

 

[KJJ]

do you know how many draft picks billicheck spend on TEs until he hit on one? he took two the year he took gronkowski. plus RBs are more easily found.

and teams run a lot more double TE sets than do two RB sets or have a first half, second half back. and cowboys have randle. who has shown to be effective relief when given the chance, so its more the case of them keep giving it to murray.

so to your other comment regarding already having witten why draft a TE. the reports had been that they wanted to draft witten's eventual replacement given he has been around for a sometime now. and having a two TE set is the formations that a lot of teams are trying for as well. that's why we drafted Bennett way back when. except he was a head case.

and compare witten to murray. last year when bell was selected. murray was in his second year. witten in his 10th. so which position do you want to draft to replace for?

come on its not that difficult.

plus how do you know what the scouting grades were on Bell vs. Escobar?

everyone is speaking after the fact. the consideration for the draft pick at the time of the pick is based on draft grades then. bell fell into the second round for a reason according to 32 teams and their scouts. so did escobar. but its not like all you all in here knew bell was going to be a great RB. that's how this conversation is coming across.

and if you do know who the next great college star that's going to fall into the 2nd and 3rd round is going to be please let us know. I will keep track and touch base with you next year this time.

Bellichick has a system where he can utilize multiple TE's. In 2012 Gronk had 55 catches for 790 yards and 11 TD's while Aaron Hernandez had 51 catches for 483 yards and 5 TD's. That seems to be what the Cowboys have been looking for by drafting these TE's but it hasn't worked out. RB's can be easily found but not elite RB's which is one reason the Cowboys have struggled to run the ball consistently since Emmitt left. The Cowboys have tried for years to take some of the pressure off Romo by giving him a solid running game and you need an elite runner to do that. In todays game a lot of teams rotate backs because carrying the load can be too much for one back. Randle has been effective only after Murray has softened up the defense. Randle wasn't effective at all last season when he got a start against Detroit and averaged only 1.9 a carry which greatly contributed to the Cowboys blowing that game in the final minute. Randle is a decent back but had the Cowboys drafted Bell or Lacy they wouldn't have had to burn a #5 on him.

I'm not going to waste my time looking up the draft grades but from what I remember Escobar was ranked around the 3rd best TE entering the draft. Most had Lacy as the top rated RB. TE is more coveted than RB's in todays pass happy game. RB's aren't viewed the same as they were years ago the top rated backs are lasting into the 2nd round. I mentioned the Cowboys already burned a couple of #2 picks on TE's who didn't amount to much due to Witten being the teams #1 TE. You think they would have learned by now. Receiver was a one of the Cowboys strengths entering the 2013 draft so TE didn't make any sense in the 2nd round especially after having drafted Hanna in the 6th round a year earlier.

Murray was coming off yet another injury plagued season and the Cowboys needed a solid RB who could possibly replace him. With his contract being up Bell or Lacy would have come in handy if we end up losing him. Randle is not a starting caliber back Romo will be back to carrying the offense if the running game isn't as effective if Murray leaves. Escobar is 29 games into his career and only has 18 catches for 239 yards and 6 TD's. He's producing less than Marty B did his first 2 seasons. He might be a terrific TE in NE or with some other team but his talents are being wasted here. I said the day we drafted him he wasn't going to get much of an opportunity to produce. The worse thing that could have happened to him was the emergence of Beasley and had the Cowboys known Beasley was going to become an impact player in the slot I doubt they would have drafted Escobar.

Witten may be in his 10th year but he never gets injured and TE's can play into their mid to late 30's. The Cowboys won't be quick to faze Witten out because he continues to be Romo's security blanket. Murray was entering his 3rd year when Bell was drafted and he missed games every year with injuries which is why RB made sense in the 2nd round and TE didn't. RB's can flame out by 28-29 so Bell or Lacy would have been a much better choice than a TE who's stuck in a log jam behind a group of talented receivers.

 

[TheCount]

its not a question of having two good RB and running them both..its a argument if picking a RB in the 2nd round would have been a good idea?

Picking ANYONE that would have gotten a lot of reps is a good idea in the 2nd round. If Escobar was a part of the offensive plan on a regular basis, I don't think anyone would complain.

 

[manster4ever]

This guy Leveon Bell has been nothing short of incredible. Imagine if we'd picked him up.

Still on a rookie contract, we'd be able to pay Dez, let Murray walk and pay some of our other FAs.

Just sayin....

Meh, I told this WHOLE board I watched the kid play every one of his college games for 3 years and we should draft him. NO one on here wanted anything to do with him. He's special and Escobar isn't. Move on I suppose....

 

[Frozen700]

I knew someone would be butthurt. You guys never disappoint

Lol I can see Nero saying this for real.

 

[hornitosmonster]

The expectations are too high for Escobar. HOF tight ends don't grow on trees. So everyone is disappointed that Escoabr can't put up HOF numbers? How does that makes sense? The reality is that Witten is going to be very hard to replace. Two current tight ends are guaranteed hall of fame, Witten and Gates. Gronkowski and Graham have a long way to go in order to earn that jacket.

 

[ghst187]

We could get another chance at this in the second round with the kid from Indiana next draft

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

Bellichick has a system where he can utilize multiple TE's. In 2012 Gronk had 55 catches for 790 yards and 11 TD's while Aaron Hernandez had 51 catches for 483 yards and 5 TD's. That seems to be what the Cowboys have been looking for by drafting these TE's but it hasn't worked out. RB's can be easily found but not elite RB's which is one reason the Cowboys have struggled to run the ball consistently since Emmitt left. The Cowboys have tried for years to take some of the pressure off Romo by giving him a solid running game and you need an elite runner to do that. In todays game a lot of teams rotate backs because carrying the load can be too much for one back. Randle has been effective only after Murray has softened up the defense. Randle wasn't effective at all last season when he got a start against Detroit and averaged only 1.9 a carry which greatly contributed to the Cowboys blowing that game in the final minute. Randle is a decent back but had the Cowboys drafted Bell or Lacy they wouldn't have had to burn a #5 on him.

I would venture to say elite RBs aren't why cowboys struggled running the ball. it was the offensive line. when we drafted Fredrick we had our first 1000 yard back. when we added martin, we turned murray into an elite RB. no RB, even bell could have run effectively behind the crappy OL we had. its no coincidence.

again why spend a 2nd round pick on a RB. is that a bigger need than another OL? (think last year) or DT? or DE or LB or or TE or safety or CB? when you already have your #1 back on the team. how many teams in the league feature two elite #1 RBs? does any team really need to?

I'm not going to waste my time looking up the draft grades but from what I remember Escobar was ranked around the 3rd best TE entering the draft. Most had Lacy as the top rated RB. TE is more coveted than RB's in todays pass happy game. RB's aren't viewed the same as they were years ago the top rated backs are lasting into the 2nd round. I mentioned the Cowboys already burned a couple of #2 picks on TE's who didn't amount to much due to Witten being the teams #1 TE. You think they would have learned by now. Receiver was a one of the Cowboys strengths entering the 2013 draft so TE didn't make any sense in the 2nd round especially after having drafted Hanna in the 6th round a year earlier.

Bell ranked anywhere from 4th to 10 best RB depending on who you believe. nobody had a 2nd round grade on him. but with that said, team grade players differently based on their philosophy, make up of their team and their needs. hanna was a project and limited from the time he was drafted. it was a developmental pick that could/could not pay off. its toughto count on low round picks working out (but great if they do). hanna didn't and team had first hand previewof what he could be (very limited as TE). so lets not put hanna on a pedestal as the answer to our back up TE and future TE needs. that's quite a reach.

the cowboys wanted to go to a two TE set (started with parcells, who had this idea about 2 TE sets, so we had drafted fasano in the 2nd round, billicheck showed everyone how it could work and be difficult to defend against). we drafted Bennett when fasano didn't work out and had spend several low round picks on TE prior (as we did on other positions so lets not just say TE). Bennett was continuation of chase for a two TE set, but the head case didn't work out. the team had been trying to find Witten's replacement. he was in his 10th year in the league when we drafted escobar....and as you said escobar was highly rated with the caveat that everyone knew he needs a coupleof seasons of seasoning (no pun intended)

Murray was coming off yet another injury plagued season and the Cowboys needed a solid RB who could possibly replace him. With his contract being up Bell or Lacy would have come in handy if we end up losing him. Randle is not a starting caliber back Romo will be back to carrying the offense if the running game isn't as effective if Murray leaves. Escobar is 29 games into his career and only has 18 catches for 239 yards and 6 TD's. He's producing less than Marty B did his first 2 seasons. He might be a terrific TE in NE or with some other team but his talents are being wasted here. I said the day we drafted him he wasn't going to get much of an opportunity to produce. The worse thing that could have happened to him was the emergence of Beasley and had the Cowboys known Beasley was going to become an impact player in the slot I doubt they would have drafted Escobar.

Witten may be in his 10th year but he never gets injured and TE's can play into their mid to late 30's. The Cowboys won't be quick to faze Witten out because he continues to be Romo's security blanket. Murray was entering his 3rd year when Bell was drafted and he missed games every year with injuries which is why RB made sense in the 2nd round and TE didn't. RB's can flame out by 28-29 so Bell or Lacy would have been a much better choice than a TE who's stuck in a log jam behind a group of talented receivers.

murray's injuries were of different varieties. breaking your foot in a freak tackle...that's not injury prone. but murray had also shown what he could be and given the cowboys knew they needed to address the OL, they were also aware of Murray's potential as a featured back. again, going back to what I said earlier, escobar needed a couple of seasons and with the emphasis on the running game this year and it success the TEs are featured less anyway, including witten. its just how it has worked out this year.

again, I still ask does a RB rank above needs for OL? DL? Saftey? CB? LB? TE? WR? if you argue that a RB is above those needs I call bull shiet. so its not about justifying drafting a RB in the 2nd round. its about what would have been a better choice and defintley not a RB to address needs for us to spend a 2nd round pick on, you mentioned that protecting ourselve's against losing murray, but that's looking at it after the fact (when now murray is inMVP talks and proven elite RB this year). on the other hand you mention that he hadn't shown signs of eliteness. so why protect yourself in case your RB is going to leave? again we are speaking after the fact this year because there is a great chance he might leave. plus we have no idea where the cowboys ranked bell as a RB since he had questionable speed (4.6) coming out of college and was suppose to be more of a power back and last year the cowboys had not transitioned to a power running game like this year.

 

[HappyOnions]

Bell wouldn't have been the Bell that we all know now if he was on this team. When was the last time a RB aside from Murray was used properly? Julius Jones? MAYBE Marion Barber...

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

Picking ANYONE that would have gotten a lot of reps is a good idea in the 2nd round. If Escobar was a part of the offensive plan on a regular basis, I don't think anyone would complain.

again, given murray's performance this year. how many reps would bell get? how many reps does the back up to bell get? apprantley not much since he got p!ssed off and blew off the team and subsequently picked up by patriots.how many carries does sproles get behind McCoy? behind lynch? how many carries did foresett get behind rice? its the same across the league. there is not one team in the league that has two elite RB featured. I can't remember the last time any team had it.... so its wishful thinking to say hey great lets have two elite RBs and split carries and run the ball 40 times a game. it just doesn't work that way. this ain't fantasy football.

so to your point the question is about the game plan. would having bell guarantee that he would have been part of the game plan and get 10-15 carries a game? I seriously doubt it. there is no proof anywhere that teams do that in the past 10 years...with the league going towards more passing......again wishful thinking.

if this group would argue instead of escobar we should have picked a DT. DE. OL or LB, then there would be an argument. to say we should have picked Bell. its asinine. we even questioned Garrett when he picked murray way back when we had felix jones and barber as one-two punch...now everyone is arguing we should have picked a RB in the2nd round!!!!!!

 

[alicetooljam]

yes. it would have. again put your crystal ball away. its easy to sit and say it today because we have all the data to make a decision. at that time they are prospects. and you have no idea how they might turn out. so at that time. when you have taken murray the year before with a high pick. taking another RB without knowing anything more than your scouting assessment would have been colossal mistake. but you have are having a big problem putting your crystal ball down. you are making an assessment two years from the actual event of picking a player. not sure why this is such a hard concept for you. plus, bell is the starting RB for pitt. he is getting chances to prove he is good. do you think he would have the same chances here? playing back up to murray? you keep avoiding the question.... and want to continue to speak through your crystal ball.

My first point was we did not take Murray the year before....yet here you are spouting the same incorrect info again. 2. We did not need ANOTHER TE with a high pick that would not see the field for 2+ years with other pressing needs AND a RB wouldve been more justifiable. It has nothing to with a crystal ball or hindsight being 20/20...we had bigger needs than both positions, but if you are going to roll to secondary needs that early, RB undoubtedly made much more sense.

 

[KJJ]

I would venture to say elite RBs aren't why cowboys struggled running the ball. it was the offensive line. when we drafted Fredrick we had our first 1000 yard back. when we added martin, we turned murray into an elite RB. no RB, even bell could have run effectively behind the crappy OL we had. its no coincidence.

It's clearly been part of the reason. Every back the Cowboys have had since Emmitt flamed out after only a few seasons. Before the OL was even built Murray showed flashes rushing for a franchise record 253 yards his rookie year. Murray had some big games before Frederick and Martin solidified it but injuries caused him to miss games.

 

[alicetooljam]

murray's injuries were of different varieties. breaking your foot in a freak tackle...that's not injury prone. but murray had also shown what he could be and given the cowboys knew they needed to address the OL, they were also aware of Murray's potential as a featured back.

Murray has had injury concerns dating back to college or he wouldve been drafted even higher...

 

[MarionBarberThe4th]

Meh, I told this WHOLE board I watched the kid play every one of his college games for 3 years and we should draft him. NO one on here wanted anything to do with him. He's special and Escobar isn't. Move on I suppose....

I wanted bell more than you did

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I would prefer Swearinger or Hankins to Bell or Lacey if I am going to go revisionist but I like Escobar.

He showed marked gains from a strength standpoint from year 1 to 2. If he can put in a similar offseason and have similar gains then I think he could end up being very good. Witten is on the downward portion of his career arc. It is usually in that third year that NFL strength training plateaus.

 

[IAmLegend]

Look, we could play this game forever. The Cowboys had a chance to draft Tom Brady in 2000 but didn't.

 

[TrailBlazer]

its not a question of having two good RB and running them both..its a argument if picking a RB in the 2nd round would have been a good idea?

so last year where would you rank RB in terms of team needs? for us to have spent a 2nd round pick?

is it a bigger need than a 10 year vet TE? OL? DT? DE? LB? CB? Saftey? WR? would we all not gotten upset for picking a RB over any of those positions? where does RB rank for a 2nd round pick (yes rounds matter).

I wouldnt have went RB in round 2. We needed dline and Lawrence was the best available. Of course hindsight is 20/20. I did like bell when he was at Michigan state though.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

My first point was we did not take Murray the year before....yet here you are spouting the same incorrect info again. 2. We did not need ANOTHER TE with a high pick that would not see the field for 2+ years with other pressing needs AND a RB wouldve been more justifiable. It has nothing to with a crystal ball or hindsight being 20/20...we had bigger needs than both positions, but if you are going to roll to secondary needs that early, RB undoubtedly made much more sense.

ok, even if we took murray two years before. really doesn't change anything. 1st and 2nd round picks are expected to be starters and regular contributors to your team. you don't spend 1st or second round picks on players to add depth. you even use those to get ready for a player to be retiring/leaving and you finding its replacement. you use those to address needs. murray to your point was in his 3rd year. why draft a RB with the highly valued 2nd round pick for a player to be back up? again murray wasn't close to retirement. would I have rated a TE over a DT, OL man or a WR? no I wouldn't probably. with that said at the time Witten was in his 10th year. close to retirement and concerns over his decline (really obvious this year). so grabbing a TE made more sense than grabbing a back up RB. given the TE would be groomed to replace an aging declining TE. I still would have liked for us to grab a DT, DE, LB, OL man over a TE if they had players in those positions rated closely to escobar.

you can not justify a RB over a TE, no matter how you cut it. I totally disagree that you spend a 2nd round pick for back up position when there are no plans to replace the starter at the time (and there was no plans to replace murray). we had a young RB. we had an aging TE. we wanted a second TE more than a back up RB to use in two TE sets (but we since changed philosophy given the running game success). plus at the time bell wasn't this can't miss prospect. he dropped for a reason. I don't have access to NFL teams prospect ratings, but various boards had him ranked 4th to 10th best RB. escobar about the same. so given two equally ranked prospects (again you are going gaga over bell because of how he is doing now, and at the time had no idea). do you draft a back up RB? or a TE to replace and aging player? in fact if bell wasn't doing well you wouldn't be here arguing about drafting a RB, instead it would be why not another OL to solidify the OL or another DT or DE to replace an aging often injred DE (or OLB) in D. Ware.

 

[xwalker]

I would prefer Swearinger or Hankins to Bell or Lacey if I am going to go revisionist but I like Escobar.

He showed marked gains from a strength standpoint from year 1 to 2. If he can put in a similar offseason and have similar gains then I think he could end up being very good. Witten is on the downward portion of his career arc. It is usually in that third year that NFL strength training plateaus.

Swearinger was my favorite Safety that year.

 

[TellerMorrow34]

Lol so your saying leveon bell wouldn't get any carries for the cowboys this year? What a joke. Like murray is that good he could keep bell off the field. Bell can take it the distance and make guys miss. He would get his share of touches no doubt

Okay. Cool story.

I'm saying you wouldn't know that Bell could do that on a regular basis because he'd be getting exactly the kind of work load that Randal is getting this year.

Which is nothing.