Hardy Investigation Thread

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tyke1doe

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You guys need to quit saying her.
Nobody, including her, has ever said that.

3 shoves and he put his hands around her knock...the latter being the worst by far.

He took the bait and was an idiot for losing his cool, but he never hit or beat her.

:huh:

I said she said what?

As I said with superoynx, I'll say to you. You quoted a post from me and interpreted me saying "she said something." But the post you quoted doesn't have me saying anyone said anything.

So I'm not really following you. Sorry.

Oh, and for the record, I've said in other threads on this topic, I don't know exactly what transpired, but I did believe Hardy put his hands on her.
 

tyke1doe

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You guys need to quit saying her.
Nobody, including her, has ever said that.

3 shoves and he put his hands around her knock...the latter being the worst by far.

He took the bait and was an idiot for losing his cool, but he never hit or beat her.

On second read, I see what you're saying.

I'm not focusing simply on the Hardy case. I'm focusing on all cases of domestic violence. The league has had a history of ignoring these situations. It's not any more. And it shouldn't.
 

Idgit

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Just for clarity on the Hardy matter, I feel this needs to be detailed thoroughly AGAIN.....

In North Carolina, misdemeanors are first tried before a judge in district court. If the defendant is acquitted, that’s the end of the case. If convicted, the defendant may appeal to superior court for a trial de novo, this time with a jury. The state saves considerable money and time in prosecuting misdemeanor cases because the district court trial is without a jury or court reporter and most defendants accept the verdict there, while the constitutional right to a jury is preserved by the option of carrying the case to superior court.

A Trial de novo means new, so the concept is a new trial. It’s still an appeal, though, but it doesn't limit how new the new trial is to be conducted.

The most commonly stated explanation of appeal to superior court for a trial de novo is that “it is as if the case had been brought there originally and there had been no previous trial.” State v. Sparrow, 276 N.C. 499, 507 (1970). Or, put another way, “The judgment appealed from is completely annulled and is not thereafter available for any purpose.” Id. The appeal to superior court, unlike an appeal to the Court of Appeals or Supreme Court, is not an appeal on the record. It is not an appeal based on error in the district court; it is an appeal of right. The appeal is available even if the defendant pled guilty in district court. “It is a new trial as a matter of absolute right from the beginning to the end. It totally disregards the plea, trial, verdict, and judgment of the District Court.” State v. Brooks, 287 N.C. 392, 405 (1975).

The United States Supreme Court has characterized the verdict in the lower court in a trial de novo system as “no more than an offer in settlement” of the state’s case. Colten v. Kentucky, 407 U.S. 104, 119 (1972). The defendant is free to either accept the offer or appeal and seek the decision of a jury in superior court. As the North Carolina Supreme Court has said:

"The purpose of our de novo procedure is to provide all criminal defendants charged with misdemeanor violations the right to a ‘speedy trial’ in the District Court and to offer them an opportunity to learn about the State’s case without revealing their own. In the latter sense, this procedure can be viewed as a method of ‘free’ criminal discovery."

Brooks, 287 N.C. at 406.

Because the appeal is a trial de novo and the slate is wiped clean of the district court proceedings, the superior court may impose a harsher sentence than the defendant received below. Colten v. Kentucky, supra; State v. Sparrow, supra. The defendant may not be questioned about having pled guilty in district court. State v. Overby, 4 N.C. App. 280 (1969). Nor may the defendant be asked about failing to testify in district court. State v. Ferrell, 75 N.C. App. 156 (1985). On the other hand, the state is no longer bound by a plea bargain which allowed the defendant to plead to a lesser charge in district court; it may proceed on the original charge in superior court. State v. Fox, 34 N.C. App. 576 (1977).

In other words, Hardy has no conviction on his record and as discussed previously he is in the process of having the arrest expunged from his record as well. If one were to conduct a background check on Mr. Hardy this matter would not even exist.

Further, the Prosecution had every right to pursue the charges without the alleged victim. As stated in the Charlotte Observer:

"Victims and witnesses routinely stop cooperating in domestic-abuse cases and prosecutors still take the cases to court. Murray (District Attorney Andrew Murray), though, said the Hardy case was different. He also appeared to raise doubts about Holder’s credibility in a statement to the judge.

But other details also raised unanswered questions about prosecutors’ handling of the case. Hardy’s defense team announced an appeal of his conviction before leaving court in July. But Murray said prosecutors only “recently” had compared what Holder told police the night of the alleged assault with her testimony at Hardy’s first trial.

That’s because prosecutors didn’t have a trial transcript. Hardy’s defense team did – attorney Chris Fialko hired a court reporter at Hardy’s trial in District Court where transcripts are not normally prepared. According to court records, Fialko also fought the prosecution’s request for a copy of the transcript in the weeks leading up to Hardy’s trial this week.

Murray’s office would not elaborate on what prosecutors found when they compared Holder’s statements, but the district attorney said in court that with Holder unavailable, they “did not have sufficient legal basis” to enter her statements to police as evidence.

Several legal experts around town speculated that prosecutors spotted inconsistencies that prevented them from building their case around Holder’s former accounts. To enter an unavailable witness’s prior testimony and statements as evidence, prosecutors have “to vouch” for its truthfulness, said Charlotte defense attorney George Laughrun.

“If they’re seeing something in the evidence that gives them pause, they may have been placed in a ethical dilemma where they don’t want to vouch for their witness.”

Apologies for the length of the post but the legal minutiae needs to be parsed out. There are a number of false statements on this board and every other medium being presented as legal truth or fact. I am merely trying to offer clarity. This case is more gray than black and white as a previous poster stated. The fact that some fall on one side of guilt or innocence and other people fall on the opposite side is totally understandable.

This is a really nice post, slick. I hope everybody read it.
 

GimmeTheBall!

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I blame people who lie under oath in order to shake ex-boyfriends down for money. Guilty as charged.

So a lie and monetary motives are more serious than hitting a human being? yeah, no wonder he roughed her up!

Me too, guilty as charged. Now we can share a jail cell . . . wait, let's not.
 

SilverStarCowboy

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This is a really nice post, slick. I hope everybody read it.

And the 49ers were Felonies with Weapons and someone got shot...so drunk Aldon Smith was passed out at the wheel......not to take away from Slick325s comments in any way.
 

Kaiser

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So a lie and monetary motives are more serious than hitting a human being? Me too, guilty as charged. Now we can share a jail cell . . . wait, let's not.

The point (which has been posted a thousand times, going back to January) is there is absolutely zero credible evidence that Hardy hit the girl. And there is mountains of evidence that she isn't credible in anything she says.
 

SilverStarCowboy

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So a lie and monetary motives are more serious than hitting a human being? yeah, no wonder he roughed her up!

Me too, guilty as charged. Now we can share a jail cell . . . wait, let's not.

If a person is poking a dog in a cage with a sharp stick. It's the dogs fault? Okay...
 

DFWJC

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On second read, I see what you're saying.

I'm not focusing simply on the Hardy case. I'm focusing on all cases of domestic violence. The league has had a history of ignoring these situations. It's not any more. And it shouldn't.

Okay...I see where you're coming from
 

GimmeTheBall!

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The point (which has been posted a thousand times, going back to January) is there is absolutely zero credible evidence that Hardy hit the girl. And there is mountains of evidence that she isn't credible in anything she says.

Yes, I tried closing mein eyes to ever thing and i feel better now.
She is bad and he deserves to play for millions. I git it.
 

Kaiser

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Yes, I tried closing mein eyes to ever thing and i feel better now.
She is bad and he deserves to play for millions. I git it.

Your eyes were closed from the start. There were long threads about this going back to January, before Hardy was ever declared a Free Agent. The people who actually did their homework all came the same conclusion.
 

GimmeTheBall!

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If a person is poking a dog in a cage with a sharp stick. It's the dogs fault? Okay...

I think the allegation was the Hardy did the brutality, not the victim.
I know, it is customary to drag the victim through a sewer of insinuations upon reputation and motives.
End result is that, even on a good day, the victim could have done zilch harm to Hardy.
And Hardy, with one arm tied behind his back, could have easily brutalized the woman. From what I understand thtee was credible evidence for the police to get involved. But defense attorneys will twist things around and in the end, the victim is made out to be the brutalizer and the brutalizer . . . I means, the defendant . . . goes happily on to fulfill his dreams.

Ah, I love the judicial system and our folksy system of denial.
 

dragon_mikal

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I think the allegation was the Hardy did the brutality, not the victim.
I know, it is customary to drag the victim through a sewer of insinuations upon reputation and motives.
End result is that, even on a good day, the victim could have done zilch harm to Hardy.
And Hardy, with one arm tied behind his back, could have easily brutalized the woman. From what I understand thtee was credible evidence for the police to get involved. But defense attorneys will twist things around and in the end, the victim is made out to be the brutalizer and the brutalizer . . . I means, the defendant . . . goes happily on to fulfill his dreams.

Ah, I love the judicial system and our folksy system of denial.

Oh they'd be calling for his head if he wasn't wearing the star but now that he's on the team they'll wade through muck in order to pull some sort of justification for what he did out of their arse. It's pathetic and this board is better than that, IMHO.

This dude was a Commander or Patriot he'd be the devil.
 

Stash

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Your eyes were closed from the start. There were long threads about this going back to January, before Hardy was ever declared a Free Agent. The people who actually did their homework all came the same conclusion.

And there's a million of them around. Just glance at the headline rather than face the burden of thinking. I mean why waste time processing the facts for yourself when you can just have someone give your opinion to you?
 

Stash

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Oh they'd be calling for his head if he wasn't wearing the star but now that he's on the team they'll wade through muck in order to pull some sort of justification for what he did out of their arse. It's pathetic and this board is better than that, IMHO.

This dude was a Commander or Patriot he'd be the devil.

Speaking for myself, I did my own homework back before he ever became a Cowboy, because I do take real domestic violence seriously and felt I owed it to myself to find out if this guy was really what some were painting him out to be.

After extensive research of all facts made available to the public, I saw this case as a golddigger going after whatever free money she could get. And that's why I advocated for the Cowboys to sign Hardy.

If people want to look at a real domestic violence case, look at Seahawks draftee Frank Clark. There's a guy who's case left little doubt to me that he was guilty.
 

slomoxn

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I think the allegation was the Hardy did the brutality, not the victim.
I know, it is customary to drag the victim through a sewer of insinuations upon reputation and motives.
End result is that, even on a good day, the victim could have done zilch harm to Hardy.
And Hardy, with one arm tied behind his back, could have easily brutalized the woman. From what I understand thtee was credible evidence for the police to get involved. But defense attorneys will twist things around and in the end, the victim is made out to be the brutalizer and the brutalizer . . . I means, the defendant . . . goes happily on to fulfill his dreams.

Ah, I love the judicial system and our folksy system of denial.

I've said it in a different thread and I'll say it again, as far as her not being nutty enough or able to do any damage to him; I'll let my 250lb wrestler friend with the stab wound in his side from his nutty ex know that.
 

superonyx

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:huh:

I said she said what?

As I said with superoynx, I'll say to you. You quoted a post from me and interpreted me saying "she said something." But the post you quoted doesn't have me saying anyone said anything.

So I'm not really following you. Sorry.

Oh, and for the record, I've said in other threads on this topic, I don't know exactly what transpired, but I did believe Hardy put his hands on her.

Since you don't know what happened that night you may want to consider the evidence. Sort of like the NFL investigator did. They conducted interviews, reviewed photos, case file, reports, ect.... Much more than any of us has done. So what was the conclusion the league came to regarding that night? They concluded that hardy pushed her. He pushed her. They didn't mention what she was doing at the time of this push. They failed to mention the probability that she was lunging at him or acting aggressive in any way. Instead they concluded that he pushed her.

So what should the punishment be for Hardy since he was found guilty by the league of pushing her?

I am very sensitive towards domestic violence. I grew up in a home with a great deal of domestic violence. I was a human shield for my mother on way too many occasions. I've lived through it all. I have no tolerance for men or women hitting each other. I won't blame the victim. But I also wont condemn Hardy if the evidence doesn't show proof of who the victim really is.

My gut feeling on what happened that night... I believe they were fighting. I believe she was hitting him. I believe he pushed her away. I believe he picked her up and threw her on the couch. I don't believe he beat her. I believe he showed restraint in how he handled it. I believe he really thought he was doing the right thing by calling the police.

When a man beats a women it is generally a form of control. It is rarely an isolated event.
 

GimmeTheBall!

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I've said it in a different thread and I'll say it again, as far as her not being nutty enough or able to do any damage to him; I'll let my 250lb wrestler friend with the stab wound in his side from his nutty ex know that.

Being that yur wrestler friend was the victim, then I blame him. He had it coming.
 

pancakeman

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The three strikes law doesn't apply to the situation I'm talking about. The three strike law applies to actual convictions. I'm talking about information about prior criminal cases being introduced in an active, ongoing criminal case.

From my understanding, a defendant has a right to a fair trial, which prohibits the state from bringing up prior criminal cases that could prejudice the jury against the defendant.

You're right, I misread when you said "the league considered Spygate in rendering its decision in Deflategate," thinking you were saying the league considered Spygate in determining its punishment in Deflategate.
 
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