News: Bob Sturm: Why I was so wrong about Cowboys coach Jason Garrett

[CCBoy]

Completely wrong, among them Dallas always drafts BPA.

The very next year they drafted Smith, they went ahead and got Claiborne and leveraged a few players to get him. Even Jason Garrett admitted that the year of Claiborne, they would be drafting BPA and were forced to draft via 'need' the year before, thought again, it could legitimately be argued that was Smith anyways.

The year they drafted Frederik, they were slotted to take Sharif Floyd, and Stephen Jones admitted it. In fact, Stephen confirmed the 'chaos' in the war room. Jerry over-ruled last minute and took Frederik, who was worked out by Callahan. And our DC didn't want Floyd, meaning he was the impetus in rejecting him. Plus, Dallas the last two years has admitted holes on defense even last year they did, Jerry stating 3 defensive players were slotted before Zach and they would have taken one of them, provided they weren't picked. He said this right after the draft, before Zach set the world on fire.

They fired Rob Ryan and when Garrett talked about it, he said explicitly that they needed to generate more TOs to give the offense more opportunities. They were looking at defense.

To argue that the building of this OL was done by design, is belied by pretty much everything. Jason Garrett brought Houck here and they ran a power-blocking scheme. They drafted big, hefty guys and followed that very same style, Garrett always coached with. It was only with Callahan coming here that they revamped the line to smaller, shiftier guards based on his zone-blocking schemes. And Callahan and Garrett were feuding two seasons ago and Callahan wanted to leave before last season.

Wade in fact wanted Solari, a zone-blocking guy...

I forget now, where is it that Callahan is now head coach?

 

[visionary]

What Garrett had proven as OC and HC of the Dallas Cowboys is that the less involved he is in the offense, the better

 

[CowboyRoy]

When you try to distill it down to draft position/charts, you are completely ignoring the other side of what goes on. Fact is they have drafted and developed three All Pro linemen in 4 years. Garrett has repeated ad nauseum in his press conferences about where the game is won and balance on offense.

Yah, he preached plenty about it, then froze up when it came to actually implementing and calling a balanced offense. That didnt happen until Linehan finally got the job done properly in 2014. And we can all see the difference it made.

 

[BigStar]

The draft "fell"? That's utterly laughable. Tyron Smith, I grant you - the case could be made that he was the BPA when he was taken. How can anyone say that Travis Frederick "fell to them", when just about everybody said he would have still, been available in the 2nd, or even the 3rd round? Zack Martin, while not considered a big reach as Fred was, wasn't a slam-dunk BPA. CJ Mosely (LB), and a pair of safeties (Clinton-Dix, and Calvin Pryor), were three of the next four picks after Martin, and all four met a definite need the Cowboys had. Some would argue that S and LB were a bigger need than OG at that point.

It should be obvious to anyone that the building of the offensive line was done by design, and not just luck-of-the-draw. While it can't be proven that Garrett was the impetus behind this focus in draft philosophy, there is no denying that the timing of it coincided with his first draft as a head coach.

Design of mainly first round picks to rebuild the OL? A general rebuild has you taking players later in the draft, flyers in FA, etc. ON TOP of premium picks. We waited 4 years and spent 3 1st round draft picks (intentionally waited until the following draft for the next OL as you claim) so we could waste Romo's prime along the way? That sounds like a very slow rebuild of only one unit of the team?

A 4 year rebuild plan for the OL (using premium draft picks) is what JG had envisioned? No later picks/FAs to help along the way? Nah, we'll just wait until next season's 1st round pick to get back to the rebuild? Happy with the selections, but only Fred was a "scout find" as Smith and Martin were considered top tier talents and Defense was the first choice among team scouts/JJ in the '14 draft (luckily the defenders sought were taken before Martin).

Sorry, missed your last statement regarding JG's personal intention (reduce sarcasm). You're correct though that maybe JG broke JJ/SJ into drafting Smith his first season as HC and allowed for premium picks to be used in the future as well, etc. I do think SJ/JG have some kind of understanding in pulling JJ their way at times.

 

[Idgit]

Meanwhile, the man gets extended. His players still love him. His staff sings his praises. The organization is happy about it's investment of time and money, and the media in Dallas has started writing the guy love letters, or at least backtracking like we're seeing Sturm do here.

That anti-Garrett ice floe is getting pretty skimpy. And the sun is out. Insist you were right all you want, but the cold water is up to your ankles, and we all know it. You can go down with your argument if you really want to, or you can accept the hand that's reaching out to help you into the lifeboat, but one way or another, with each passing season, it's becoming obvious that this is becoming a settled debate in Dallas.

 

[khiladi]

Jerry said himself that he wanted Manziel.

Lets just put it this way..................

The entire organization is better off if:

1. The draft and FA is better off if its left to the Will Clay and Stephen Jones.
2. The team is better off if the majority of the on field coaching and game day management is kept to the coordinators.
3. Garrett is allowed to focus on ONLY being a walk around head coach.

These are the three major factors that have contributed to the talent on the team, and a better all around coached product on the field.

1. Jerry never wanted Manziel and he loves to troll people... He stated explicitly after the draft that they had 4 players slotted, three defense and Zach Martin fourth. And all three of his defensive players were gone. First of all, that means the Cowboys were looking defense, not building the OL intentionally. Secondly, Jerry had signed Romo to a long-term contract the previous year, despite his 'back issues'.

And third, Jerry himself admits that he TOOK Zach Martin, because he was the top player by three players on the board.

The story that he was over-ruled was made up by Dent and Dent didn't even say he did it, but said he could envision Jerry doing something like that from what I recall.

2. Stephen Jones explicitly stated he wanted Sharif Floyd the prior year and that their was a disconnect between him and the coaches. And Jerry over-ruled him based on that coach is who is now DC. Stephen even said that that the disconnect was in not realizing the scheme difference. The problem with this argument is that the Defensive coaches were hired in January and the draft is more than three months later.

Again, Dallas drafts BPA. My point was simply that Dallas wasn't dead set on drafting OL and building it from there on out. Their two hits, Frederik and Martin were primarily a result of their defensive players not being there, or the disconnect with Floyd.

 

[khiladi]

I forget now, where is it that Callahan is now head coach?

Dallas offered him a new contract as OL coach, he rejected. And he's an OL coach with a family friend, Gruden..

Are you trying to argue Callahan can't build OL's, because that is what the argument is... Not whether or not he can HC...

 

[CCBoy]

Dallas offered him a new contract as OL coach, he rejected. And he's an OL coach with a family friend, Gruden..

Are you trying to argue Callahan can't build OL's, because that is what the argument is... Not whether or not he can HC...

Funny, the level of accomplishment, when declaring he was the dominant force in a Garrett lead team, is relevant. But if one doesn't also consider whether or not he can be an offensive coordinator and merit a higher level, head coach, could very easily be relevant in declaring Callahan was the ground zero of all incoming on offense.

But hey, stir blame around and never see the discussive elements, and declare an argument instead. You go Champ.

The offense, that included Scott Linehan under Jason Garrett, with Frank Pollack offensive line coach...I dare say, won't be beholding to Callahn. As Rod Marinelli is not beholding to the previously departed defensive coordinator, who left just before him as well.

As to production, never mind Phillips was great as a defensive coordinator and his defense left behind was the NFL's close to very worst when brought along from where it was with Phillips as the head coach. No, there are disconnects when just giving a person in a position full recognition when a team's full efforts are actually involved in success.

No, I don't think that talent added in the offensive line degenerates because Callahan is gone. No matter how many times one declares that the sky is falling instead.

 

[CowboyRoy]

1. Jerry never wanted Manziel and he loves to troll people... He stated explicitly after the draft that they had 4 players slotted, three defense and Zach Martin fourth. And all three of his defensive players were gone. First of all, that means the Cowboys were looking defense, not building the OL intentionally. Secondly, Jerry had signed Romo to a long-term contract the previous year, despite his 'back issues'.

And third, Jerry himself admits that he TOOK Zach Martin, because he was the top player by three players on the board.

The story that he was over-ruled was made up by Dent and Dent didn't even say he did it, but said he could envision Jerry doing something like that from what I recall.

2. Stephen Jones explicitly stated he wanted Sharif Floyd the prior year and that their was a disconnect between him and the coaches. And Jerry over-ruled him based on that coach is who is now DC. Stephen even said that that the disconnect was in not realizing the scheme difference. The problem with this argument is that the Defensive coaches were hired in January and the draft is more than three months later.

Again, Dallas drafts BPA. My point was simply that Dallas wasn't dead set on drafting OL and building it from there on out. Their two hits, Frederik and Martin were primarily a result of their defensive players not being there, or the disconnect with Floyd.

I was simply commenting on what Jones said. Which he specifically said he wanted Manziel and they had to talk him out of it. Now if your going to say that Jerry was lying about what he said, then that is up to you.

 

[CowboyRoy]

Meanwhile, the man gets extended. His players still love him. His staff sings his praises. The organization is happy about it's investment of time and money, and the media in Dallas has started writing the guy love letters, or at least backtracking like we're seeing Sturm do here.

That anti-Garrett ice floe is getting pretty skimpy. And the sun is out. Insist you were right all you want, but the cold water is up to your ankles, and we all know it. You can go down with your argument if you really want to, or you can accept the hand that's reaching out to help you into the lifeboat, but one way or another, with each passing season, it's becoming obvious that this is becoming a settled debate in Dallas.

The only thing that has been settled is that Garrett was not a good OC and that he was not a good HC/OC. So all the Anti-Garrett fans were dead right about that and the debate is now over and in the books. The only debate left is whether Garrett can be a good walk around coach with less responsibility and by staying out of the way of coordinators. So far, one year in, there seems to be positive results. But in my mind, there are many coaches that could walk around this team with the people in place to run the football and player acquisition side of it. Nothing special about Garrett. After 8 years of failing to measure up, Jones finally found something he could do right. Which is stay out of the way of the game day management and walk around and be likable.

 

[Primetime42]

The only thing that has been settled is that Garrett was not a good OC and that he was not a good HC/OC. So all the Anti-Garrett fans were dead right about that and the debate is now over and in the books. The only debate left is whether Garrett can be a good walk around coach with less responsibility and by staying out of the way of coordinators. So far, one year in, there seems to be positive results. But in my mind, there are many coaches that could walk around this team with the people in place to run the football and player acquisition side of it. Nothing special about Garrett. After 8 years of failing to measure up, Jones finally found something he could do right. Which is stay out of the way of the game day management and walk around and be likable.

"Staying out of the way"

lol

 

[Tommy]

The only thing that has been settled is that Garrett was not a good OC and that he was not a good HC/OC. So all the Anti-Garrett fans were dead right about that and the debate is now over and in the books. The only debate left is whether Garrett can be a good walk around coach with less responsibility and by staying out of the way of coordinators. So far, one year in, there seems to be positive results. But in my mind, there are many coaches that could walk around this team with the people in place to run the football and player acquisition side of it. Nothing special about Garrett. After 8 years of failing to measure up, Jones finally found something he could do right. Which is stay out of the way of the game day management and walk around and be likable.

It's still early but this has "dumb post of the day" potential!

 

[Idgit]

The only thing that has been settled is that Garrett was not a good OC and that he was not a good HC/OC. So all the Anti-Garrett fans were dead right about that and the debate is now over and in the books. The only debate left is whether Garrett can be a good walk around coach with less responsibility and by staying out of the way of coordinators. So far, one year in, there seems to be positive results. But in my mind, there are many coaches that could walk around this team with the people in place to run the football and player acquisition side of it. Nothing special about Garrett. After 8 years of failing to measure up, Jones finally found something he could do right. Which is stay out of the way of the game day management and walk around and be likable.

Oh, right. You're still pretending that's what he got the $30M dollars for--walking around.

Look, you're confusing 'what's been settled' with 'what you want to continue to believe.' It happens. Your opinions are at odds with the productivity of our offense under JG, with the opinions of the players, the coaches, the staff, the management, and the media. Your opinions are at odds with the team's actual record under Garrett. There's literally nothing supporting anything you choose to believe other than your interpretations of events that may or may not be even remotely accurate or which in some cases have already been proven to be flat out wrong.

In your defense, you've got two or three posters on CZ who still agree with you. People are talking about the guy in Coach of the Year conversations and you're trying to convince yourself that all he does is 'be likable.' I'm not trying to change your opinion. It's obvious you're going down with your iceberg. I'm just pointing out again that you believing something doesn't make it believable to anybody paying any attention whatsoever to the facts.

 

[CCBoy]

The only thing that has been settled is that Garrett was not a good OC and that he was not a good HC/OC. So all the Anti-Garrett fans were dead right about that and the debate is now over and in the books. The only debate left is whether Garrett can be a good walk around coach with less responsibility and by staying out of the way of coordinators. So far, one year in, there seems to be positive results. But in my mind, there are many coaches that could walk around this team with the people in place to run the football and player acquisition side of it. Nothing special about Garrett. After 8 years of failing to measure up, Jones finally found something he could do right. Which is stay out of the way of the game day management and walk around and be likable.

For sure, Dez Bryant versus the world, Day II...and don't forget to run out and purchase a Lowe's cooling towel.

 

[CowboyRoy]

Oh, right. You're still pretending that's what he got the $30M dollars for--walking around.

Look, you're confusing 'what's been settled' with 'what you want to continue to believe.' It happens. Your opinions are at odds with the productivity of our offense under JG, with the opinions of the players, the coaches, the staff, the management, and the media. Your opinions are at odds with the team's actual record under Garrett. There's literally nothing supporting anything you choose to believe other than your interpretations of events that may or may not be even remotely accurate or which in some cases have already been proven to be flat out wrong.

In your defense, you've got two or three posters on CZ who still agree with you. People are talking about the guy in Coach of the Year conversations and you're trying to convince yourself that all he does is 'be likable.' I'm not trying to change your opinion. It's obvious you're going down with your iceberg. I'm just pointing out again that you believing something doesn't make it believable to anybody paying any attention whatsoever to the facts.

Nah, you just think Garrett is a great coach, and I dont. I like what he is doing now, but he plum failed prior to this. Those are the facts. Whether you want to look at his record, the play of the team, the reaction of fans, media, his boss, they all point to disappointment. Nothing you say or do can change that.

After 8 years of grueling learning curves, he has finally gotten to the point where he has some abilities that can be harvested. And Jones has him limited in that regard. Which is away from game day management.

 

[CowboyRoy]

Oh, right. You're still pretending that's what he got the $30M dollars for--walking around.

Look, you're confusing 'what's been settled' with 'what you want to continue to believe.' It happens. Your opinions are at odds with the productivity of our offense under JG, with the opinions of the players, the coaches, the staff, the management, and the media. Your opinions are at odds with the team's actual record under Garrett. There's literally nothing supporting anything you choose to believe other than your interpretations of events that may or may not be even remotely accurate or which in some cases have already been proven to be flat out wrong.

In your defense, you've got two or three posters on CZ who still agree with you. People are talking about the guy in Coach of the Year conversations and you're trying to convince yourself that all he does is 'be likable.' I'm not trying to change your opinion. It's obvious you're going down with your iceberg. I'm just pointing out again that you believing something doesn't make it believable to anybody paying any attention whatsoever to the facts.

My belief is based on facts and records. And has been backed up the last 8 years by the owner, Garrett himself on occassions, some players, the fans and plenty of media. Up until 2014 Garrett was at the bottom of the coaching polls regularly and was a lame duck coach and considered #1 on the hot seat.

Nothing can change those facts for you or anyone else. Now you want to talk about 2014, that is fine with me. But to try to imply that pre 2014 gets completely washed away because of 1 winning season is ridiculous. You cant erase anything. It happened.

Now you want to talk about the Job Garrett did last year with less responsibility, then I will be more than happy. And if your going to argue he had less responsibility, then again that is ridiculous. He was the HC and OC pre 2014. He is NOT the OC in 2014. Those are facts AGAIN, that you cant get away from.

 

[CowboyRoy]

Oh, right. You're still pretending that's what he got the $30M dollars for--walking around.

Look, you're confusing 'what's been settled' with 'what you want to continue to believe.' It happens. Your opinions are at odds with the productivity of our offense under JG, with the opinions of the players, the coaches, the staff, the management, and the media. Your opinions are at odds with the team's actual record under Garrett. There's literally nothing supporting anything you choose to believe other than your interpretations of events that may or may not be even remotely accurate or which in some cases have already been proven to be flat out wrong.

In your defense, you've got two or three posters on CZ who still agree with you. People are talking about the guy in Coach of the Year conversations and you're trying to convince yourself that all he does is 'be likable.' I'm not trying to change your opinion. It's obvious you're going down with your iceberg. I'm just pointing out again that you believing something doesn't make it believable to anybody paying any attention whatsoever to the facts.

So Jerry Jones got executive of the year or was in the running last year. So are you trying to tell me that all his blunders from the last 20 years gets completely erased because of one good year? Cmon, lets give it a rest. You Garrett guys are reaching way too hard. One good record does not erase history for anyone.

 

[CowboyRoy]

For sure, Dez Bryant versus the world, Day II...and don't forget to run out and purchase a Lowe's cooling towel.

Thanks for the response, but I have no idea what you are talking about.

 

[CCBoy]

Thanks for the response, but I have no idea what you are talking about.

Alright, does Skip Kelly ride the arm of Nick Foles?

 

[Idgit]

...Those are the facts. Whether you want to look at his record, the play of the team, the reaction of fans, media, his boss, they all point to disappointment. Nothing you say or do can change that....

My belief is based on facts and records. And has been backed up the last 8 years by the owner, Garrett himself on occassions, some players, the fans and plenty of media. Up until 2014 Garrett was at the bottom of the coaching polls regularly and was a lame duck coach and considered #1 on the hot seat.

Nothing can change those facts for you or anyone else. Now you want to talk about 2014, that is fine with me. But to try to imply that pre 2014 gets completely washed away because of 1 winning season is ridiculous. You cant erase anything. It happened.

Now you want to talk about the Job Garrett did last year with less responsibility, then I will be more than happy. And if your going to argue he had less responsibility, then again that is ridiculous. He was the HC and OC pre 2014. He is NOT the OC in 2014. Those are facts AGAIN, that you cant get away from

These things you keep saying are 'facts' aren't actually facts. Or else, like in the case of your generic reference to coaching polls and 'was considered a lame duck' or 'was considered on a hot seat' they're statements that I'm sure were true someplace on the internet, but they're still not consistent with the performance of his offenses on a points/series basis during his time here, or with the record of his teams during his time here, or with the big fat extension he was given for being good at his job during his time here. I'm not washing away anything that happened before 2014, because I've been saying for years that it's been obvious that the work Jason Garrett did during that period was good work in the first place.

Now, I won't keep addressing every flurry of posts you want to take the time to make. I'm just wading into the thread every now and then to point out that you're trying to win an argument with the volume of your opinions, when your opinions aren't actually supportable. You're just wrong on the topic no matter how much you don't want to be.