The defense will be better with Zeke

[bsheeern]

Ain't too many people running on 3rd and 3 either.

But the teams that are effective at it just 1 time early in a game or even show they are willing to try have set themselves up for so much more success later in that game. Doesn't mean that it will turn into actual results, but any coach will tell you, they would rather have the defense guessing.

 

[Idgit]

You really must be reeling a bit with the Zeke pick eh? Now you are going to have to watch us pound the rock all over again with Zeke for the next 5 or 6 years. Now we can get back to real football.

And FYI........before 2014 the Cowboys were 8-8 3 years in a row with Romo throwing the ball around and no run game. Facts are stubborn things.

Not at all. I'm looking forward to watching him. Unsurprisingly, you've missed the entire point.

Also unsurprising, you're drawing the wrong conclusion from your won/loss facts. But have fun with that.

 

[bsheeern]

I started the thread buddy. Its not the point at all. You are missing it. The point is that it helps, but doesnt make it better. When they line up, there is no better talent and no better ability to stop the opponent.
At some point, the only way to improve the defense is to draft blue chip players to play on defense. A great offense can certainly help circumstances for the D, but it wont make them better by any stretch.

No one could ever argue different unless Elliott somehow played defense.

 

[percyhoward]

But the teams that are effective at it just 1 time early in a game or even show they are willing to try have set themselves up for so much more success later in that game. Doesn't mean that it will turn into actual results, but any coach will tell you, they would rather have the defense guessing.

The point is that Murray wasn't very good with a late lead when defenses were expecting run. Or at any other time when defenses were at least thinking about the run, for that matter. The more the season went on, and the more attention defenses were paying to the run, the less effective Murray was.

Murray's ypc, 2014 (runs of 10+ yards)
games 1-4: 5.4 (17)
games 5-8: 4.9 (13)
games 9-12: 4.6 (8)
games 13-18: 4.1 (11 in 6 games)

We need to be able to keep defenses honest. That's what led to the offensive success in 2014. But the key to that is Romo and the OL much more than it is the RB.

 

[bsheeern]

The point is that Murray wasn't very good with a late lead when defenses were expecting run. Or at any other time when defenses were at least thinking about the run, for that matter. The more the season went on, and the more attention defenses were paying to the run, the less effective Murray was.

Murray's ypc, 2014 (runs of 10+ yards)
games 1-4: 5.4 (17)
games 5-8: 4.9 (13)
games 9-12: 4.6 (8)
games 13-18: 4.1 (11 in 6 games)

We need to be able to keep defenses honest. That's what led to the offensive success in 2014. But the key to that is Romo and the OL much more than it is the RB.

Buddy 3 of those last 4 games were blowouts. Completely different variables

 

[CowboyRoy]

Not at all. I'm looking forward to watching him. Unsurprisingly, you've missed the entire point.

Also unsurprising, you're drawing the wrong conclusion from your won/loss facts. But have fun with that.

Im not commenting on anything other than your affinity that passing wins in the NFL and the run game is an after thought.

And of course you simply tell me that I am wrong with nothing to back it up. We were pass happy for 3 years under Garrett with little to no run game and all it got us was 8-8. In 2014 out of nowhere we had one of the best run game in the league and went 12-4. If that isnt proof enough, you will never learn. And now you can enjoy watching a run first offense for the next 6 years. Enjoy!!

 

[CowboyRoy]

No one could ever argue different unless Elliott somehow played defense.

Exactly. Now to be picky.......Ramsey and a healthy Smith would go a long way to helping our defense. One more solid draft on the defensive side and we could be all but wrapped up there. You dont find great corners and great pass rushers in the middle to the back of the first round typically.

 

[percyhoward]

Buddy 3 of those last 4 games were blowouts. Completely different variables

Last 4 games
When margin was one score or less: 4.0
When margin was greater than one score: 4.1

 

[bsheeern]

Last 4 games
When margin was one score or less: 4.0
When margin was greater than one score: 4.1

Like I said. Completely different Variables. Not results.

 

[KJJ]

woof-woof. You're not convincing anybody of anything. But have at it because I'm not getting on the merry-go-round.

You decided to jump on the merry-go-round and now you want bail because you'll end up getting thrown off due to the fact I'm right and there's many who agree with me including the Cowboys and many who were covering the draft. Me and Adam started this argument in the DNA thread over 2 weeks ago and everything I covered was exactly what Stephen Jones, Jerry and Garrett brought up as the reason they drafted Zeke. The ones covering the draft were backing me but according to Adam the running game has little effect on winning and losing and the running game wasn't why the Cowboys went 12-4 in 2014.

He claims it's because we passed the ball better than our opponents but is in denial that the running game was the reason Romo was so efficient in the passing game and that the running game played a big part in why the defense played better. The other poster you support on this board claimed our running game was better in 2015 than in 2014. Both Adam and Percy have gotten inside your head with all their data. LOL

 

[Idgit]

Im not commenting on anything other than your affinity that passing wins in the NFL and the run game is an after thought.

And of course you simply tell me that I am wrong with nothing to back it up. We were pass happy for 3 years under Garrett with little to no run game and all it got us was 8-8. In 2014 out of nowhere we had one of the best run game in the league and went 12-4. If that isnt proof enough, you will never learn. And now you can enjoy watching a run first offense for the next 6 years. Enjoy!!

Of course I'm not going to engage with you. We've covered this territory before, Roy.

And you've still fundamentally misunderstood the argument somehow. It's borderline impressive that you manage it, and yet you somehow do.

You enjoy the games, too! At the end of the day, that's why we follow the team, right?

 

[Idgit]

You decided to jump on the merry-go-round and now you want bail because you'll end up getting thrown off due to the fact I'm right and there's many who agree with me including the Cowboys and many who were covering the draft. Me and Adam started this argument in the DNA thread over 2 weeks ago and everything I covered was exactly what Stephen Jones, Jerry and Garrett brought up as the reason they drafted Zeke.

The ones covering the draft were backing me but according to Adam the running game has little effect on winning and losing and the running game wasn't why the Cowboys went 12-4 in 2014. He claims it's because we passed the ball better than our opponents but is in denial that the running game was the reason Romo was so efficient in the passing game and that the running game played a big part in why the defense played better. The other poster you support on this board claimed our running game was better in 2015 than in 2014. LOL

Lol, no. Just wanted to lend my interpretation to the discussion. You've been thrashed on merits. The fact that you won't see it and insist on replying doesn't change anything. Arguments aren't made more valid through persistent repitition.

And again, nobody ever denies the importance of the running game. What's at issue is the importance of spending resources to run more *effectively.* You can get everything you need to compete at RB with a mid round pick.

If Elliot's truly a game breaker, it'll show up in short yardage and the passing game. If not, it was an overallocation of resources. There's no getting around it.

 

[bsheeern]

You decided to jump on the merry-go-round and now you want bail because you'll end up getting thrown off due to the fact I'm right and there's many who agree with me including the Cowboys and many who were covering the draft. Me and Adam started this argument in the DNA thread over 2 weeks ago and everything I covered was exactly what Stephen Jones, Jerry and Garrett brought up as the reason they drafted Zeke. The ones covering the draft were backing me but according to Adam the running game has little effect on winning and losing and the running game wasn't why the Cowboys went 12-4 in 2014.

He claims it's because we passed the ball better than our opponents but is in denial that the running game was the reason Romo was so efficient in the passing game and that the running game played a big part in why the defense played better. The other poster you support on this board claimed our running game was better in 2015 than in 2014. Both Adam and Percy have gotten inside your head with all their data. LOL

I rarely disagree with @AdamJJT but on this one I simply have to. Way more goes into this than Just simply saying Passing Better leads to more wins. Sure that might true on the surface but There are tons of other Variables and they are hard to ignore and even harder to see a lot of times.
For example: What caused you to pass better? To me that's just as important.
Running the ball can have so many unseen affects.

 

[KJJ]

Lol, no. Just wanted to lend my interpretation to the discussion. You've been thrashed on merits. The fact that you won't see it and insist on replying doesn't change anything. Arguments aren't made more valid through persistent repitition.

And again, nobody ever denies the importance of the running game. What's at issue is the importance of spending resources to run more *effectively.* You can get everything you need to compete at RB with a mid round pick.

If Elliot's truly a game breaker, it'll show up in short yardage and the passing game. If not, it was an overallocation of resources. There's no getting around it.

You only lend your interpretation when you see someone being thrashed. You try and spin I'm the one getting slapped I know your MO all to well. LOL You got slammed with a fact last year by me and all you did was cry and attack me and the source. You claim I'm wrong all the time let's see you prove it! Go through my archives and start digging up everything I've been wrong about and you've been right about. You disagree with me on damn near everything and I've been right on damn near everything except for the 2014 season where everyone was wrong. We had a mid round back start the season for us last year and he averaged under 4.0 a carry on opening day with Romo on the field. We used another mid round back Robert Turbin who provided little and was sent packing. We had several average backs who most FANS like you claimed could combine for the yards and TD's Murray had in 2014 behind our great OL and they came up over 400 yards short and scored 5 fewer TD's. We stunk in short yardage last season especially on 3rd and one where we were the worst in the league as of the second week in Dec. When you have a great, young OL any smart team will attempt to pair it with a great young back and not waste it with a bunch of average backs.

I said when Murray walked the Cowboys wouldn't run the ball as efficiently and it could get Romo injured and the defense would spend more time on the field...BINGO! The Cowboys banked more on their OL last season than the talent they had at RB and I said it would be a mistake resulting in the team likely having to use a high draft pick on an RB...BINGO! Check my archives and you'll see a bunch of posters I've argued with the past 2 seasons that are currently licking their wounds. There isn't anyone on this board who's been more right that I have on this topic and if it burns you that's your problem. Claiming we can get everything we need to compete at RB with a mid round pick is laughable unless you get lucky. Despite last season you still think any back can get it done behind our OL.

Unless you hit on a great back in the mid rounds you'll end up with another average back. The best way to get a great back is to use a premium pick on a great college back and that's what we did. You have a post on the board saying you would be curious to see what a great back could do behind our OL. The Cowboys felt so good about their OL last year they didn't even bother drafting a back in what was regarded as a deep RB draft. You can tell by our draft the Cowboys weren't happy with their running game last season. They found out what I've been preaching since Murray walked despite how good your OL is the back matters! Our great 90s teams were led by a great back and there's no doubt in my mind that Zeke will help account for some wins in 2016 and beyond health permitting.

 

[KJJ]

I rarely disagree with @AdamJJT but on this one I simply have to. Way more goes into this than Just simply saying Passing Better leads to more wins. Sure that might true on the surface but There are tons of other Variables and they are hard to ignore and even harder to see a lot of times.
For example: What caused you to pass better? To me that's just as important.
Running the ball can have so many unseen affects.

Despite how wrong Adam is on this topic he still has a few locked under his spell that he's completely brainwashed over the years. If he provided data that shows jumping off a bridge and landing on a dry creek bed wouldn't kill them he would have them lined up in droves jumping off one by one. They follow him like the pied piper. They'll buy into anything he says because he has them hypnotized by all the data he posts. I find it amusing how his lapdogs expose themselves especially in discussions when most on the board aren't buying what he's selling.

 

[Idgit]

You only lend your interpretation when you see someone being thrashed. You try and spin I'm the one getting slapped I know your MO all to well. LOL You got slammed with a fact last year by me and all you did was cry and attack me and the source. You claim I'm wrong all the time let's see you prove it! Go through my archives and start digging up everything I've been wrong about and you've been right about. You disagree with me on damn near everything and I've been right on damn near everything except for the 2014 season where everyone was wrong. We had a mid round back start the season for us last year and he averaged under 4.0 a carry on opening day with Romo on the field. We used another mid round back Robert Turbin who provided little and was sent packing. We had several average backs who most FANS like you claimed could combine for the yards and TD's Murray had in 2014 behind our great OL and they came up over 400 yards short and scored 5 fewer TD's. We stunk in short yardage last season especially on 3rd and one where we were the worst in the league as of the second week in Dec. When you have a great, young OL any smart team will attempt to pair it with a great young back and not waste it with a bunch of average backs.

I said when Murray walked the Cowboys wouldn't run the ball as efficiently and it could get Romo injured and the defense would spend more time on the field...BINGO! The Cowboys banked more on their OL last season than the talent they had at RB and I said it would be a mistake resulting in the team likely having to use a high draft pick on an RB...BINGO! Check my archives and you'll see a bunch of posters I've argued with the past 2 seasons that are currently licking their wounds. There isn't anyone on this board who's been more right that I have on this topic and if it burns you that's your problem. Claiming we can get everything we need to compete at RB with a mid round pick is laughable unless you get lucky. Despite last season you still think any back can get it done behind our OL.

Unless you hit on a great back in the mid rounds you'll end up with another average back. The best way to get a great back is to use a premium pick on a great college back and that's what we did. You have a post on the board saying you would be curious to see what a great back could do behind our OL. The Cowboys felt so good about their OL last year they didn't even bother drafting a back in what was regarded as a deep RB draft. You can tell by our draft the Cowboys weren't happy with their running game last season. They found out what I've been preaching since Murray walked despite how good your OL is the back matters! Our great 90s teams were led by a great back and there's no doubt in my mind that Zeke will help account for some wins in 2016 and beyond health permitting.

If volume and persistence could make you right KJJ, you'd really be onto something.

 

[Rogerthat12]

When you're already winning, you don't throw as much later in the game, so that gives you fewer attempts for the game. Romo actually had more 1st-half attempts in 2014 than he had averaged over his career.

Romo's pass attempts per half
1st half
2014 only: 18
2006-2013: 17

2nd half
2014 only: 11
2006-2013: 17

Having leads meant we didn't have to pass to catch up, which meant fewer total attempts for our QB. But we didn't get our leads by throwing less.

This simply leads to the conclusion that the running game assisted Romo and he did not need to carry the load in the second half of games which led to in the past, costly turnovers at critical times during the game.

In 2013 total passing yards were 3954, in 2014 total passing yards 3784!

2012 total passing yards 4729!

 

[JoeBoBBY]

To me, this was the most laughable line of the weekend. And to hear people buy that garbage is even more funny.

Now certainly keeping the defense off the field with a great run game is helping the team.

Its just another head scratching way for the Cowboys brass to justify ANOTHER offensive player with ANOTHER first round pick.

Taking an offensive player helps improve the defense?

Now I will agree it helps HIDE the defense, but it doesn't do squat to improve that side of the ball.

Fans need to wrap their head around one thing and one thing only. We will NEVER win a championship until this defense improves dramatically. Sure we can make the playoffs and have some winning seasons. And unless we spend some big money in FA over the next few years, I don't see it happening.

Hiding can be considered a strategy......A strategy which makes the product on the field.....better.

 

[JoeBoBBY]

In theory, yes, if the offense is out on the field more the defense doesn't play as much and therefore should be fresher.

But that's not the problem with this analysis. People are floating the notion that the defense in 2015 suffered not necessarily from a lack of talent but rather that they were tired and worn out compared to 2014 because we didn't control TOP with McFadden than we did with Murray.

Unfortunately, the problem with that analysis is that TOP stats and analysis doesn't back up that claim.

After Romo went down.....The D had extra pressure..... and you know, they weren't "so" bad....But I do think that extra pressure was just too much.....and they cracked....

this year, that pressure to hold the opposing team to 5 points. Shouldn't be there.

 

[KJJ]

If volume and persistence could make you right KJJ, you'd really be onto something.

I'm thorough and cover all the bases. If you want to make BS statements on the board than I'm wrong all the time start proving it! Here's just an example of what I was saying after week 2 of last season about our backs and running game.

I don't think it's going to get a whole lot better maybe some but not to where the Cowboys won't be looking for a solid runner during the off season.