I will never like Jason Garrett

[big dog cowboy]

You can put a silk hat on a pigs head

Who does that?

 

[khiladi]

Exactly. You didn't address my point about what it would take for Garrett to earn your respect. You attacked me instead.

You didn't address me directly, but made a condescending tone about valid criticisms of Garrett.

 

[CowboyRoy]

Actually, not officially. Just according to a handful of guys on the internet who never liked him and don't want to change their opinions now that the Associated Press has named him the NFL COTY and despite the fact that the organization, his staff, and his players pretty much all seem to love him and play hard for him, and the fact that he's delivered 12 and 13 win seasons two out of he last thee years for the team he's pretty much overhauled completely in his tenure.

NFL COTY is more of a team accomplishment award in the regular season. And we all know the clapper basically fell into the decision with Dak. Both QB's got hurt and Dak turned out to be incredible. Nothing to do with the hapless Garrett. Its not like he benched both QB's in favor of the rookie. He had NO choice.

And we all know what happened with Garrett in the first playoff game when he was finally counted on to actually coach. He blew it with his in game management and getting his team prepared.

Tell me.................do you think they would have given Garrett playoff coach of the year if there was such an award? Your hero failed yet again when it really counted.

 

[CowboyRoy]

Why dramatically overstate your case like this? It only undermines your actual argument. I've routinely said Jason Garrett is a good coach and a good fit for Dallas. That's turned out to be 100% true, whether you can acknowledge the results on the field or the support from the front office in the form of a long extension or the credit he gets from the press, his staff, and his players. There's no rational basis for denying it. I'm not the one embarrassing myself. Your take is the one that's out of line with reality. It doesn't matter if a half-dozen guys on the internet with the same ax to grind agree with you. You guys can be wrong as a group if you're not willing to acknowledge the obvious.



What's your logic here? Because we ended up with a different OL coach, that proves to you that Jason Garrett had no part in rebuilding the offensive line in Dallas? Because that doesn't follow logically. The obvious answer is the Cowboys felt there was more than one option for addressing the OL, which they obviously made a point of doing.

As for your fantasy that Callahan threatened Jason Garrett's job....it's hardly worth addressing. Callahan was effectively demoted while still under contract when Jason brought in Linehan. He left in a huff the following year to go to a division rival.

Garrett is a terrible coach. That has been proven over and over again.

 

[CowboyRoy]

http://www.star-telegram.com/sports/nfl/dallas-cowboys/article3847045.html



Of, look what we have here. Right again, with Jerry admitting that Garrett being removed from the offense puts his role in an ambiguous place.

He then proceeds to admit that this is what Jason didn't want:



So Jason was stripped of play-calling duties and they got Linehan and that Jerry basically in the same article admits he liked his coordinators and will give them more control.

Why do you continually embarrass yourself?

Our success has been predicated on making Jason vanish, while giving appearances that he plays a big role simply to save Jerry's face as well as, because Jerry simply loves the guy and the Garrett family.

LOL...............................wow, talk about smacking someone around the board. Idgit is helpless to defend himself against the truth.

Even Jerry admitted we have all suffered through Garretts learning years.

 

[CowboyRoy]

Why dramatically overstate your case like this? It only undermines your actual argument. I've routinely said Jason Garrett is a good coach and a good fit for Dallas. That's turned out to be 100% true, whether you can acknowledge the results on the field or the support from the front office in the form of a long extension or the credit he gets from the press, his staff, and his players. There's no rational basis for denying it. I'm not the one embarrassing myself. Your take is the one that's out of line with reality. It doesn't matter if a half-dozen guys on the internet with the same ax to grind agree with you. You guys can be wrong as a group if you're not willing to acknowledge the obvious.



What's your logic here? Because we ended up with a different OL coach, that proves to you that Jason Garrett had no part in rebuilding the offensive line in Dallas? Because that doesn't follow logically. The obvious answer is the Cowboys felt there was more than one option for addressing the OL, which they obviously made a point of doing.

As for your fantasy that Callahan threatened Jason Garrett's job....it's hardly worth addressing. Callahan was effectively demoted while still under contract when Jason brought in Linehan. He left in a huff the following year to go to a division rival.

whether you can acknowledge the results on the field

Poor guy. You suffer from low standards. And no doubt its why you are tickled pink with the hapless Jason Garrett.

 

[CowboyRoy]

You might as well be quoting random articles about fish riding bicycles or videos of dogs buttoning up dress shirts and then telling us you're right and that I've embarrassed myself. If you're going to make whatever point you think is there to be made in your head, you have to do more than pull an unrelated link and show it to us like it's something we don't know and have never considered.

Nobody here has ever disputed that Jason Garrett's play calling duties were taken away and given to Callahan, and then given to Linehan. When it's been pointed out historically, it always get answered with the fact that most NFL HC's *don't'* call their own plays. It's usually about two thirds of the league whose HCs don't call plays for their respective sides of the ball. Including Belichick in New England. The list of guys who *do* (or, did I guess I should say) includes guys like Whisenhunt and Kelly who were fired for it.

Big difference. They were taken away from Garrett because he was horrible at it. He couldnt handle it. that was clear to Jerry and anyone that doesnt have a Garrett man crush like you do.

 

[CowboyRoy]

Nobody ever disputed the fact the play-calling duties were taken away, but I'm not talking about that and you, like usual are changing the argument to try and save face..

Jerry flat out admitted Jason didn't want to give up play-calling, which you claimed was false. Just one of the many things you are wrong about..

When Jason was in control of the offense, you vehemently denied his play-calling was a problem.. still trying to waffle out of it. Who exactly is in denial?

So unlike Whisenhunt or Kelly, Jason was emasculated, though he gave up when he didn't want to and remained HC.

I haven't even gotten to the quote from Jerry about the 'coach' refusing to run and not target the best WR on the team like Linehan did in Detroit..

 

[CowboyRoy]

You can claim all you want, but Jerry flat out denied all of this when he gave the contract to Romo and when he hired Linehan. The quotes are in the links I provided among many.

Wade constantly complained about Garrett not running the ball, which was his whole reason to bring in Dan Reeves. That is another fact that cannot be denied. Wade had problems with Garrett, which time eventually proved right.

The TOs and pressure those put on the defense, Wade put on the lack of running the ball because of Garrett, not Romo..

Most people simply rely on Parcells take that Romo was a gunslinger and let that define Romo's career with Garrett, which was totally different. Parcells in fact, was way too conservative anyways to the point he refused to attack scrubs in Seattle's secondary.. his judgments in Romo in that regards was partly influenced by that mentality and was hardly PURELY rational.

Romo had no problems running the ball the very year Linehan came and he didn't turn the Ball over..

Just keep blowing him away buddy. You are making waaaay tooo much sense.

 

[khiladi]

Reeves was supposed to be brought in as a consultant for player personnel, not as an O-Coordinator.

Wade also publicly said that Romo was audlbing out of too many run plays on 2 different occasions.

There was some talk about Norv coming in to 'help Garrett' along with Wade wanting Mike Solari to coach the O-Line instead of Garrett's preference of Hudson Houck. So I do think Wade had problems with Garrett, but he did call out Romo on 2 different occasions for not running the ball. I do think at that time Garrett enabled Romo.



Not completely true. He publicly said that Romo checks out of too many run plays on 2 different occasions.



Romo had a ton of autonomy over the offense. He CLEARLY audibled throughout his career.

If he audibled so much, he could have JUST AS EASILY audibled a pass play into a run play.

He didn't for almost his entire career.

The facts are that Wade called out Romo for checking out of run plays, then Garrett did when he was coach and then Jason Hatcher did in a practice after Romo became so pass happy.

When Callahan became the O-Coordinator and he was clearly calling the plays...we had games like the KC game where were were never behind by more than 7 points and we threw the ball 51 times and ran it 9 times.





YR

I never said Reeves was here to become OC, he was basically here to baby-sit Jason Garrett, because they had issues from a coaching standpoint. In fact, there was potentially conflict as well, because Reeves didn't want to be just a 'coach', but wanted input in the personnel.

As far as Garrett being revoked, Jerry explicitly stated the reason why, when it happened:

http://sportsblogs.star-telegram.co...ill-get-megatron-treatment-under-linehan.html

"Linehan gives us a complete real change of our offense with our terminology," Jones said. "It's different. Although [Garrett and Linehan] have been together coaching, you can't see a lot of what we've been and what they did up in Detroit. He's got a track record of really zeroing in and building the offense around the talent, the specific talent and the qualities of the players."

Jerry basically says flat-out that while both Garrett and Linehan basically run the same Coryell offense with the same terminology (which Jerry admitted was a big reason for the issues with Callahan, who didn't coach in a Coryell so they didn't want to full revamp the whole offense), one (Linehan) caters the play-calling to his personnel and the other doesn't. It was, as per Jerry's OWN WORDS, A TRUE CHANGE in the Coryell offense.

There is no question, he’ll take it and he’s done it,” Jones said. “Look hard at how he maximized his skills, how he maximized Johnson’s skills. Johnson didn’t get there doing what he did against us. For whatever reason, they designed stuff to take advantage of Johnson getting there. We’re not going to give any coach credit for Johnson. Well, that’s not really the way it should be. With what he did at Minnesota, with what he’s done and where he’s been, he really does make adjustments to the personnel that are really dictated by the scheme and the philosophy. There’s no question that he’ll take his top players, and it can be in the running game as well, in the running game, he will utilize them in the running game. To some degree all coaches will say that, but getting them to do it or getting it done is another thing. But he’s a proven imaginative coach, relative to using his talent, their particular skills."

And in the same context, he points out COACHES as not running the ball though they make a claim to it. We all know Garrett's track record of constantly abandoning the run. In fact, there was all this speculation that, before it even happened, Jerry was pushing for a new play-caller, because he wasn't happy with Jason Garrett. Jason never wanted to relinquish play-calling.

https://www.si.com/si-wire/2013/01/13/cowboys-jerry-jones-jason-garrett-play-calling

Even here, it points to the situation of JONES wanting to get rid of his brother as passing game coordinator, who got promoted by Jason from TE coach. This is also when they went experimenting with trying to push Kevin Ogletree, Jason's brother's boy from Virgina as the second WR. So the more the Garrett's got their hands on the offense, the more it was floundering.

As far as Callahan goes, Jerry himself flat-out admitted that Jason Garrett kept interfering and didn't want to relinquish control. And said Jason was effectively the Offensive Coordinator that season.

http://sportsday.***BANNED-URL***/d...ahan-was-team-s-offensive-coordinator-in-2013

 

[CowboyRoy]

what evidence? Who is the HC of the Dallas Cowboys? He has been the longest tenure of any HC the Cowboys have has under Jones and has the full backing of Jerry and Stephen. As OC Garrett offense never ranked below 13th in the NFL and was top 10 in 3 of them. Jerry did take play calling away but continued to back Jason as the HC of the Dallas Cowboys you know the position in charge of the entire team. I have no issue when the team fails that Jason takes heat because as HC the team failure and success falls directly on him but by the same token when the team is being successful to act as if Jason played no part is juvenile and becomes completely agenda driven

Why is it so important to you, that a guy like Jerry, who has made monumental mistakes in the past like Garrett and keeps him around? How is that evidence for you that Garrett is a great head coach? Its just another emotionally poor decision in a long line of poor decisions for Jerry Jones.

The fact remains that the only thing that has changed in Dallas has been Will Clay that has made any difference in the last 5 years. Without the infused draft talent from Clay and his scouting department, this team would be 8-8 forever.

 

[CowboyRoy]

It's going to happen. You know it is.

LOL...............you mean like if Garrett hangs around for 30 years at some point the team will win one? How is that great coaching?

Like I said before, you suffer woefully from a case of low standards.

 

[CowboyRoy]

I never said Reeves was here to become OC, he was basically here to baby-sit Jason Garrett, because they had issues from a coaching standpoint. In fact, there was potentially conflict as well, because Reeves didn't want to be just a 'coach', but wanted input in the personnel.

As far as Garrett being revoked, Jerry explicitly stated the reason why, when it happened:

http://sportsblogs.star-telegram.co...ill-get-megatron-treatment-under-linehan.html



Jerry basically says flat-out that while both Garrett and Linehan run the same offense, one (Linehan) caters the play-calling to his personnel and the other doesn't.



And in the same context, he points out COACHES as not running the ball.

In fact, there was all this speculation that, before it even happened, Jerry was pushing for a new play-caller, because he wasn't happy with it. Jason never wanted to relinquish play-calling.

https://www.si.com/si-wire/2013/01/13/cowboys-jerry-jones-jason-garrett-play-calling

Even here, it points to the situation of getting rid of his brother as passing game coordinator.

As far as Callahan goes, Jerry himself flat-out admitted that Jason Garrett kept interfering and didn't want to relinquish control. And said he was effectively the Offensive Coordinator that season.

http://sportsday.***BANNED-URL***/d...ahan-was-team-s-offensive-coordinator-in-2013

Blowing them away with the facts and quotes from Jerry telling EXACTLY what happened. Completely flies in the face of what their little homer minds want to believe.

Nicely done. Nicely done indeed!!!!

 

[CowboyRoy]

I think a lot of fans don't realize how hard it is to win 12 or 13 games in an NFL season. And tobget a team to where our team is right now.

Do the same thing to defensive personnel we've don't offensively under Garrett, and everybody gets their share of playoff wins.

How many 13 win teams lose their first playoff game at home? Now that is hard to do.

But again.......raise your standards. Winning 13 games means nothing to a normal standard fan if it doesnt equate to playoff wins.

while you band around and wave your pom poms over 13 regular season wins and HCOY awards, the rest of us will worry about super bowls and playoff victories.

 

[CowboyRoy]

I realize that a lot of people have already formed their opinion of Garrett and I do believe that you are right. It really doesn't matter what he does going forward for those people.

I don't really know if I could be classified in that category to be honest. I don't think much of Garrett as a football coach and don't think he will ever have this team consistently winning in the postseason. I would however like to be proven wrong and be surprised.

Garrett can always change the perception by actually showing that he can coach. Going 13-3 and keeping Romo on the bench was heading in that direction. Then he totally screwed the pooch in the playoffs. The guy shows time and time again that he simply isnt cut out to be a big time football coach. In game management, clock management he just doesnt get it. He panics too often and did it again in the playoffs.

 

[CowboyRoy]

So do I. That's sort of the point. On the bright side, not long ago people were convinced Garrett couldn't get a team over .500, and that turned out not to be the case, too.

LOL..............whooohooo he finally got us over 500. Wow!!!! Its almost to the point where I am embarrassed at your reasoning.

 

[CowboyRoy]

That's a load of bull.

Any Coach in the league can get you 4-12 down his three best offensive players. The list that gets you multiple 12+ win seasons in a 3 year span is much shorter. If you can't be honest about what caused the losses in 2015, there's no hope for a reasonable discussion here.

And if you think those 2011-2013 teams were contenders who fell short due to coaching, I'm not the homer here. Go back and take a look at some of those rosters.

You just did EXACTLY what he says you did. You ignored the bad season and only want to focus on the good one. Classic denial.

 

[CowboyRoy]

We'll just have to agree to disagree. Records are just part of the story. Its what transpires during games and especially in the three 8-8 & 4-12 seasons that tell the rest of the story.

Im as big of a Cowboys homer as there is but I think Red is a FRAUD.

He is the biggest of frauds there is. But at least Jerry realizes it to some degree and has stripped Garrett of his control and influence as much as possible.

 

[khiladi]

And when it comes to Wade Phillips:

http://www.espn.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/12287/why-has-cowboys-garrett-abandoned-the-run

And Choice isn't the only one at Valley Ranch making statements like that. Coach Wade Phillips said Monday during his news conference that his team needed to run the ball more. But that's a huge part of the problem.

Owner Jerry Jones has set up an organizational chart in which Phillips appears to have little or no say about the offense. So Phillips' complaints Monday came off as a cheap second-guess. If the head coach doesn't think his team's running the ball enough during a game, shouldn't he walk over and mention that to the offensive coordinator?

Jones gave Garrett all the control in the world, until even he couldn't make excuses for him anymore. If it were anybody but Garrett, that guy would have been fired long ago. The year Skip Peete got fired, Jerry did the Garrett brother a favor but not firing him out-right but letting him leave under the guise of moving on to other coaching opportunities.

 

[khiladi]

Why is it so important to you, that a guy like Jerry, who has made monumental mistakes in the past like Garrett and keeps him around? How is that evidence for you that Garrett is a great head coach? Its just another emotionally poor decision in a long line of poor decisions for Jerry Jones.

The fact remains that the only thing that has changed in Dallas has been Will Clay that has made any difference in the last 5 years. Without the infused draft talent from Clay and his scouting department, this team would be 8-8 forever.

Probably more like last year. It was already reported that Linehan didn't really want Cassell here, but wanted to play Moore. It's clear that Moore new his offense and Cassell, would be a new QB inserted into an offense that had no idea what they wanted to do. Garrett, during his 'glory years' always blamed the defense for the failures and last year, his approach was again, to rely on the defense to generate TOs, while they played conservative ball. They couldn't even score in the red-zone.

And Jerry himself said that an injury to Romo should never have prevented them from winning some more games.