NFLN Willie McGinest: Collins won every rep against Taco

Irvin88_4life said:
I get what you are saying but Pittsburgh will be using him in a 3-4 at OLB. Hard to compare unless Taco stands up or Watt puts his hand in the dirt
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Some people may want to see it differently, but to me it comes down to pass rush and sacks. That's ultimately what you're looking for.

If the 3-4 was the more advantageous defense for it, maybe an even bigger mistake was switching back?
 
jday said:
The problem is, you are comparing a 3-4 outside linebacker to a 4-3 defensive end on a completely different team, surrounded by different levels of talent. They really are not comparable. Furthermore, I suspect Watt might get more snaps if he finds a starting role considering Taco will very much be part of a rotation.

That said, based on what we saw in the limited action between Taco and Collins, I'd say he's going to need a year in strength and conditioning before he can make a significant splash in his role...and the same would have been true of Watt had he came here...perhaps even more true if he was going to play RE.
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Other people can out whatever qualifiers on things to help make the Cowboys decions look better, happens all the time, just like with the Lucky fiasco. But that doesn't mean that I have to. I'll base my decisions off of who's more effective at getting to the quarterback. We all know that was the Cowboys biggest need.
 
jday said:
C'mon Stash. Everyone knows you will be following Watt and Taco very closely so that you can come back here and tell everyone you were right if Watt has the better career. It's okay...I certainly don't blame you....had the Cowboys not drafted Zeke last year and had taken Derek Henry instead, for instance, I would probably do the same thing if/when Zeke took the league over.
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I'm not rooting against Taco, any evidence to the contrary. I'm a Cowboys fan, I take no pride in their mistakes, but I don't shut my eyes to them either. I hope they prove to be 100% right about Charlton and I'm proven to be wrong. That's sincere.

But I certainly won't ignore it if things turn out the other way, and that's only fair in the assessment.
 
jday said:
Exactly. We are Cowboys fans before anything. So I would take being wrong for Cowboys wins any day of the week.

That said, you and I both know if Taco sucks and Watt sets the world on fire, the zone will have an "I told you so" in some capacity coming from you at some point. You wouldn't be able to help yourself...and neither would I.
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Oh no, I'll be there for sure. And there's not a thing wrong with that. Just like I'll have a mea culpa ready and waiting if Taco turns out to be a good one. I've been wrong before, I'll be wrong again.
 
stasheroo said:
Other people can out whatever qualifiers on things to help make the Cowboys decions look better, happens all the time, just like with the Lucky fiasco. But that doesn't mean that I have to. I'll base my decisions off of who's more effective at getting to the quarterback. We all know that was the Cowboys biggest need.
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I think you are missing the point.

I'm not high on Taco at all. To be honest, I look at him as more of a 2nd round project than starter material 1st rounder. So I don't feel any need whatsoever to justify the pick; I think even the Cowboys understand he will require some seasoning to perform in the manner they will need him to. That's the reality of that particular position. Rare is the 4-3 DE that comes in and sets the world on fire.

Watt, I suspect, actually has a better chance of putting up more sacks from his position in his scheme. The defensive line in the 3-4 schemes to free up the olb for the blitz, so he will have several free runs at the quarterback that Taco may never see in his entire career much less in one season. It simply not the same position with the same challenges, Stash. You can compare them all you want but from a logical perspective, they are not comparable so you are wasting your time and when you do come back here to blast the Cowboys for their 1st round decision making, people who know anything about football will not take you seriously.

Just a heads up.
 
jday said:
C'mon Stash. Everyone knows you will be following Watt and Taco very closely so that you can come back here and tell everyone you were right if Watt has the better career.
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I preferred Watt also. Should be interesting to match their progression.

Hopefully it is more of a Ware/Merriman comp versus a Carpenter/Lawson one.
 
Alexander said:
I preferred Watt also. Should be interesting to match their progression.

Hopefully it is more of a Ware/Merriman comp versus a Carpenter/Lawson one.
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But the Ware vs Merriman comparison made a little more sense because they both were linebackers in a 3-4 defense. Taco is playing a completely different position from Watt, so I honestly don't think they are comparable.

And for those who do think they are comparable, I suspect there in for some disappointment, because simply by the nature of the 3-4 olb position, Watt will more than likely have more sacks than Taco, because Watt will get the occasional free run at the QB. Taco may never see that.
 
stasheroo said:
Some people may want to see it differently, but to me it comes down to pass rush and sacks. That's ultimately what you're looking for.

If the 3-4 was the more advantageous defense for it, maybe an even bigger mistake was switching back?
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Was Ware a better 3-4 pass rusher or 4-3 rusher?
 
Irvin88_4life said:
Was Ware a better 3-4 pass rusher or 4-3 rusher?
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By the time he was playing as more of a specialist in a four man, he was very beat up, especially his back. Ware could have played in either, he was that good. But by the time he went into a four man front under Kiffin, he was pretty much done.
 
Alexander said:
By the time he was playing as more of a specialist in a four man, he was very beat up, especially his back. Ware could have played in either, he was that good. But by the time he went into a four man front under Kiffin, he was pretty much done.
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My point is its not the same position.
 
Blogging the Boys seemed to have a higher opinion of Taco's day based on its observations:

Taco Charlton had a full day.

With Tyrone Crawford sitting out practice, Taco Charlton started out with the first team at LDE. Later in practice, when the team rested DeMarcus Lawrence at RDE, Charlton shared first-team reps with Damontre Moore at RDE.

Charlton did about as well as can be expected from a rookie. He looked a little better against La'el Collins at LDE, especially in the individual compete period where he was able to get past Collins to give the defense a win, and had a little more trouble against Tyron Smith. He did have a couple of nice getoffs, and looked good in some 1-on-1 battles. And that's pretty much what you're looking for from a rookie: he isn't going to consistently beat either Tyron Smith or La'el Collins, but getting a few good plays each day is the way to go.
 
Swanny said:
I was lost when watching the videos when the first link says "Taco Dominated" every practice rep. Can't wait to watch Collins and Martin work together this year
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I think that's just bad phrasing. "Taco *was* dominated" not "Taco *did* dominated"... or something to that effect.
 
jday said:
I think you are missing the point.

I'm not high on Taco at all. To be honest, I look at him as more of a 2nd round project than starter material 1st rounder. So I don't feel any need whatsoever to justify the pick; I think even the Cowboys understand he will require some seasoning to perform in the manner they will need him to. That's the reality of that particular position. Rare is the 4-3 DE that comes in and sets the world on fire.

Watt, I suspect, actually has a better chance of putting up more sacks from his position in his scheme. The defensive line in the 3-4 schemes to free up the olb for the blitz, so he will have several free runs at the quarterback that Taco may never see in his entire career much less in one season. It simply not the same position with the same challenges, Stash. You can compare them all you want but from a logical perspective, they are not comparable so you are wasting your time and when you do come back here to blast the Cowboys for their 1st round decision making, people who know anything about football will not take you seriously.

Just a heads up.
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That's fine. I welcome the debate. Those same "people" will get it right back about switching to the 4-3 in the first place and once again struggling to get to the quarterback.

The days of Shante Carver, Ebenezer Ekuban, and countless 4-3 DE misses all over again.

The fact is that if a guy can rush the passer, he can rush the passer. And players have gone back and forth between the schemes. Pigeon-holing Watt while they draft guys like Gregory is dumb. I don't care what scheme it is.
 
jday said:
But the Ware vs Merriman comparison made a little more sense because they both were linebackers in a 3-4 defense. Taco is playing a completely different position from Watt, so I honestly don't think they are comparable.

And for those who do think they are comparable, I suspect there in for some disappointment, because simply by the nature of the 3-4 olb position, Watt will more than likely have more sacks than Taco, because Watt will get the occasional free run at the QB. Taco may never see that.
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Then run the 3-4 if it's that much of an advantage to the pass rush.
 
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