Dak (and young Tony) vs elite pass defenses

TheCoolFan said:
Wrong. The offensive line was pretty good from 2006-2009. Flozell, Gurode, and Leonard Davis were solid and even made Pro Bowls during that span. Romo doesn't have a good start to his career if he plays behind this terrible OLine that you're speaking of. From 07 to 09, Flozell, Gurode, and Leonard Davis played in 46 out of 48 games together. Kosier missed games in 2008 but otherwise started every game in the rest of his seasons. That's stability.

Phil Costa came into the league in 2010, Cory Proctor was mainly a backup who filled in for Kosier in 2008, and McQuistan never started a game.

Now, they finally got exposed in the 2009 playoffs vs. the Vikings but those guys were all old except for Free at that point. That OLine wasn't as great as the 90's Cowboys of course but to act like they were terrible is revisionist history. You don't go 9-7, 13-3, 9-7, and 11-5 behind a completely terrible OLine.
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The line was not good in 09, and they were rapidly declining in 08. They were solid in 2007 though.
 
khiladi said:
So your likening Dallas OL then to what many have argued is the best OL in football as being better? The line Dak was afforded was in its third year playing together and Dallas starting line essentially began together in 2006 the very first year Romo started with the exception of Davis..

David was brought in 2007 and was a bust in Arizona, Gurode was so dumb he couldn’t even call the plays despite beinf a Center.. Kyle Kosier who gave way to another journeyman for some time in Montrae Holland..

Just stop..
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Yeah, I had to blink when I read that.
Way off base there.

And I defend Dak.
But that line was not as good as this one.
 
Some fans now want us to follow the Cleveland Browns model.......New QB every other season!
 
TheCoolFan said:
Wrong. The offensive line was pretty good from 2006-2009. Flozell, Gurode, and Leonard Davis were solid and even made Pro Bowls during that span. Romo doesn't have a good start to his career if he plays behind this terrible OLine that you're speaking of. From 07 to 09, Flozell, Gurode, and Leonard Davis played in 46 out of 48 games together. Kosier missed games in 2008 but otherwise started every game in the rest of his seasons. That's stability.

Phil Costa came into the league in 2010, Cory Proctor was mainly a backup who filled in for Kosier in 2008, and McQuistan never started a game.

Now, they finally got exposed in the 2009 playoffs vs. the Vikings but those guys were all old except for Free at that point. That OLine wasn't as great as the 90's Cowboys of course but to act like they were terrible is revisionist history. You don't go 9-7, 13-3, 9-7, and 11-5 behind a completely terrible OLine.
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Nonsense.. they made the pro Bowl because of Tony Romo.. they had no running game and Romo was getting sacked close to mid upper thirty times a game.. Leonard Davis was a bust in Arizona for years and Gurode couldn’t even call plays..

Most of our success was in hurry up and up tempo offense.

That OL outside David all came to Dallas in 2006, Romo’s first year starting and added Davis in 2007.

Dak had Smith and Leary who played together since 2012, added Frederick in 2013, then Zach Martin in 2014, and Free who went back to 2007 here. Three of the four lineman played together for four years before Dak came here, plus three and two with Zach..

Plus arguably the greatest OL coach in the game Callahan coaching them up for years..

Like I said, just stop..
 
AzorAhai said:
I usually like the stats, but I just don’t see the same thing. When Romo first started to play in those preseason games, he looked different. When he took over in 2006, even with his mistakes, he looked like a different sort of passer than most of his peers. I just don’t see it with Dak the same way. He’s not dropping dimes to his WRs the same way Romo did from year one. Of course he doesn’t usually force the ball like Romo sometimes did either.

Sometimes stats don’t tell the story as Dak never has looked like the pure passer Romo flashed from the very beginning.
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Romo was lighting up practices while people were saying Dak doesn’t practice well.. that’s how Romo survived the Parcells era..
 
mattjames2010 said:
I think we just don't want Dak as our franchise QB who, in a few years, will be getting a large contract....
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So in your expert opinion, how much experience does a QB need in order to blossom into a franchise QB? 1 season, 3 seasons, 5......? Don't you think it's a little premature to be turning the page onto the next chapter of quarterbacks? Give the dude a chance to grow and correct some of his flaws and deficiencies!
 
CowboysWillRise said:
Most people were sick of Romo before he signed his last contract. The Lions game (where he single handedly lost it for us) had our fan base crushing him. Dont get me wrong I love the guy, but your 100% correct about people's memories.
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Only Garrett homers really were, blaming Romo for his failures..

The difference between that contract and before is Jerry basically forced Garrett’s hands with the contract and said Romo was going to be involved in game planning, when before Garrett didn’t let him. Garrett defenders tried to spin it that it was because Romo didn’t want too..

Even Garrett basically had to admit that it made more sense because Tony needed to have more say in plays being called, particularly if he didn’t like it. Jason tried to spin it that It was a collective decision when it was really because he stunk it up.

That’s why it took one year of Callahan being here to experiment with him as OC.

That’s why when Linehan cameJerry said Jason Garrett isn’t going to be involved in the offense at all and he handles ambiguity in roles well. Jerry was now giving Romo control with a real experienced OC in Linehan.
 
As the OP often reminds us, you have to take note of when stats are accumulated.

In 2017, there are currentlty 10 QBs with a rating of 97 or better.
In 2006, there were just 2.

For the same reason its not so great to compare Romo's QB ratings wirh Aikmans (Romo's were WAY better), We should temper how we compare QB ratings of Dak and early Tony.
A lot has changed in 11 years.
 
DFWJC said:
As the OP often reminds us, you have to take note of when stats are accumulated.

In 2017, there are currentlty 10 QBs with a rating of 97 or better.
In 2006, there were just 2.

For the same reason its not so great to compare Romo's QB ratings wirh Aikmans (Romo's were WAY better), We should temper how we compare QB ratings of Dak and early Tony.
A lot has changed in 11 years.
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Great post.
 
DFWJC said:
As the OP often reminds us, you have to take note of when stats are accumulated.

In 2017, there are currentlty 10 QBs with a rating of 97 or better.
In 2006, there were just 2.

For the same reason its not so great to compare Romo's QB ratings wirh Aikmans (Romo's were WAY better), We should temper how we compare QB ratings of Dak and early Tony.
A lot has changed in 11 years.
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Romo's rating (in his 4th year as a starter) was 29 points lower against Top-5 defenses, and Prescott's (in his 2nd year as a starter) is 34 points lower.

What does this have to do with era?
 
DFWJC said:
The fact that you use the Lions game as an example of a single player losing a game all by himself....it just really silly. Come on now.

So did Dak--who had a light years worse game last night than Romo did in that Lions game--single handedly lose the game?

I dont think so.
Even though he did something last night Romo never did in his whole career--that is to not account for a single TD while having a massive TD to turnover difference of -4.

Even after all that, I would not say he single handedly lost that game.

And btw, Romo played that Detroit game with broken ribs and a healing punctured lung.
330 yards, 3 TDs and 3 turnovers (so a zero differencial) maybe isnt single handedly losing a game. It was borderline heroic that he played at all.
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Romo rarely had any clunkers. Very few games where he was just bad from start to finish. The only one that really comes to mind is against Philadelphia in the playoffs. Like Dak I give him a pass for the Vikings game as he was under pressure like Dak last week. I’m sure I’m missing a couple that people will surely point out.
 
khiladi said:
So your likening Dallas OL then to what many have argued is the best OL in football as being better? The line Dak was afforded was in its third year playing together and Dallas starting line essentially began together in 2006 the very first year Romo started with the exception of Davis..

David was brought in 2007 and was a bust in Arizona, Gurode was so dumb he couldn’t even call the plays despite beinf a Center.. Kyle Kosier who gave way to another journeyman for some time in Montrae Holland in 2009..

Just stop.. Romo was getting sacked close to 40 times a year and everybody was blaming the OL for the failure of Garrett’s offense among other excuses..
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No, you're missing the point. I'm saying that throughout Romo's early years (2006-2009), he hasn't had to play a stretch of games where they were breaking in multiple new starters like the Cowboys have had to do this year at RT, LG, and whoever is filling in for Tyron. Flozell, Gurode, Davis, and Colombo had lots of experience together. People are blaming Dak for not being great behind this current group of OL and I'm saying to relax because Romo himself had games where he struggled behind a better OL than what Dak has had vs. Atlanta and Philly. Romo never had a game where Flozell wasn't protecting his blindside...that makes a huge difference. The OL then was not as good as the OL in 2014-2016. But the OL in 2017, even with Tyron healthy, is not as good as the one we've seen with Leary and Free. And then with Tyron injured, it's not even on par with the 06-09 OL.

What does Davis being a bust at Arizona playing OT have to do with how he played in Dallas? He was good playing inside. 3x Pro Bowl and 1x All Pro. Gurode is dumb but made the Pro Bowl 5 times and All Pro in 2009? Yeah...a bunch of scrubs :huh: Aaron Rodgers and Russell Wilson have made their OL look way better than they really are the past 3 years yet how many Pro Bowls and All Pro teams have their OL made?

Let's take a look at the numbers of sacks given up during that span in relation to the rest of the league's sack totals:

2006: 37 (16th/23)
2007: 25 (8th/27)
2008: 31 (13th/28)
2009: 34 (12th/24)

Not great but definitely not terrible or close to being the worst.

Yes, Romo's OL got pretty bad from 2010-2013 but by that point, he was also an experienced QB. The point of this topic is to show that Romo had games like what Dak has had while he was inexperienced too. People want Dak to put the team on his back behind this currently bad OL while also not even fully polished as a QB yet.
 
ak47kaehu said:
Some fans now want us to follow the Cleveland Browns model.......New QB every other season!
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Lol what? We had the same QB for a decade before Dak. This comment has much more to do with some people daring to question if we need to replace YOUR QB than anything else.
 
ak47kaehu said:
So in your expert opinion, how much experience does a QB need in order to blossom into a franchise QB? 1 season, 3 seasons, 5......? Don't you think it's a little premature to be turning the page onto the next chapter of quarterbacks? Give the dude a chance to grow and correct some of his flaws and deficiencies!
Click to expand...

I think a QB needs to progress, not regress from one season to the next. Dak hasn't progressed.
 
AzorAhai said:
Lol what? We had the same QB for a decade before Dak. This comment has much more to do with some people daring to question if we need to replace YOUR QB than anything else.
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What other option do we have? Stop Daks progress and insert Cooper Rush? Trade for Wentz? Wheel in Romo to play behind this atrocious oline and carry him away in s stretcher? Yes Dak had a few bad games and some on and off accuracy issues throughout the season. But we've seen a lot more good than bad from him overall, give the dude a chance to grow as a Quarterback. The offensive scheme ain't doing him no favors either.
 
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