Dak (and young Tony) vs elite pass defenses

[Coy]

People seem to forget early Tony...honestly? People only remember 2014 Tony it seems.

Yeah, he sucked, smh.

Tony Romo's first 26 regular season starts (2006-2007): 539/830 (64.9%) for 6,852 yards with 52 TDs and 29 INTs. 19-7 record.

 

[WillieBeamen]

Can we stop comparing Dak to Romo. Dak is nowhere near the passer Romo was...

 

[percyhoward]

Funny to try and compare numbers as if the rules haven't changed drastically to maximize the passing game.

The average passer rating from 2006-08 was 82.0. For 2016-17 it's 88.9. So basically a difference of 7 rating points.

After 3 seasons as a starter, Tony had faced five Top-5 defenses (in 39.5 games), and had a rating of 71.9 in those games. That adjusts to 78.8, at a point in his career when he'd already had 19 more starts than Dak.

And of course, the 30-point disparity in the passer rating based on the quality of defenses faced doesn't change because of era anyway.

 

[Pessimist_cowboy]

On talking Cowboys they said the eagles are 28th vs the pass. Dak could barely throw for 100 yards on them.

 

[AzorAhai]

I usually like the stats, but I just don’t see the same thing. When Romo first started to play in those preseason games, he looked different. When he took over in 2006, even with his mistakes, he looked like a different sort of passer than most of his peers. I just don’t see it with Dak the same way. He’s not dropping dimes to his WRs the same way Romo did from year one. Of course he doesn’t usually force the ball like Romo sometimes did either.

Sometimes stats don’t tell the story as Dak never has looked like the pure passer Romo flashed from the very beginning.

 

[blindzebra]

That’s part of being an NFL QB. It’s supposed to be ingrained in him to deliver the ball the same way every time no matter the pressure.

How often do you see Goff stand in there and deliver nice throws even when he knows he’s gonna get lit up

We have seen Dak do it for 25 of his 27 games, he has had the crap beat out of him the last two weeks.

 

[HungryLion]

Love him or hate him, TO was arguably one of the top 5 WR's in NFL history.

To be honest I don’t even think it’s arguably. I think he is without a doubt top 5 ever.

 

[Pessimist_cowboy]

We have seen Dak do it for 25 of his 27 games, he has had the crap beat out of him the last two weeks.

Oh cmon last night the protection was fine. Wentz took more hits than Dak. Wentz is a big boy qb he stands and delivers from the pocket while getting rocked. Wentz was pounded and kept it coming.

 

[TheCoolFan]

Uh Phil Costa, Cory Proctor, Pat McQuistan all played plenty of time for Romo in his career.

Oh and that 'stable' group? By 2009, Columbo was a total shell and constantly hurt(replaced by Doug Free). Flozell Adams was guaranteed to false start. Andre Gurode snapped who knows how many balls over Romo's head, at his feet, in his face mask before he was ready. Leonard Davis was a failed tackle turned guard. This group was also the reason that Romo got the job. They couldn't protect Bledsoe and Romo made them look better.

Dak has NEVER had to dream of playing in the NFL with the crap line that Romo spent most of his career playing with.

Wrong. The offensive line was pretty good from 2006-2009. Flozell, Gurode, and Leonard Davis were solid and even made Pro Bowls during that span. Romo doesn't have a good start to his career if he plays behind this terrible OLine that you're speaking of. From 07 to 09, Flozell, Gurode, and Leonard Davis played in 46 out of 48 games together. Kosier missed games in 2008 but otherwise started every game in the rest of his seasons. That's stability.

Phil Costa came into the league in 2010, Cory Proctor was mainly a backup who filled in for Kosier in 2008, and McQuistan never started a game.

Now, they finally got exposed in the 2009 playoffs vs. the Vikings but those guys were all old except for Free at that point. That OLine wasn't as great as the 90's Cowboys of course but to act like they were terrible is revisionist history. You don't go 9-7, 13-3, 9-7, and 11-5 behind a completely terrible OLine.

 

[Coy]

I like Dak, he’s a good QB, but he’s played like crap this past 2 weeks and no, Chaz Green did not play this week. 7 and 9 points in back to back weeks is not acceptable.

FWIW

 

[blindzebra]

Oh cmon last night the protection was fine. Wentz took more hits than Dak. Wentz is a big boy qb he stands and delivers from the pocket while getting rocked. Wentz was pounded and kept it coming.

Prescott 4 sacks 7 hits, Wentz 0 sacks 6 hits.
He is also coming off an 8 sack 10 hit game.

 

[Gameover]

The Eagles have the league's 5th-ranked pass defense, according to passer rating. They're the 6th different Top-5 pass defense Prescott has faced in just 27+ career games. Romo did not face any Top-5 pass defenses until 2008, his 3rd season as a starter. The best pass defense Tony faced in the 2006 season was the 6th-ranked Eagles. He posted a 45.5 passer rating in that game.

As comparisons go, the similarities are eerie in this one.

Prescott
vs. Top 5 Pass Defenses (6 games)
110 of 192 (57%) 1155 yd (6.0 ypa) 6 td 6 int 72.3

vs. #6-32 Pass Defenses (21.5 games)
426 of 628 (68%) 4935 yd (7.9 ypa) 36 td 6 int 106.4

Romo
first 6 career games vs. Top 5 Pass Defenses
124 of 213 (58%) 1472 yd (6.9 ypa) 7 td 8 int 74.7

first 21.5 games vs. #6-32 Pass Defenses
315 of 475 (66%) 4198 yd (8.8 ypa) 35 td 17 int 103.8

Chargers pass defense ranking?

 

[Pessimist_cowboy]

Prescott 4 sacks 7 hits, Wentz 0 sacks 6 hits.
He is also coming off an 8 sack 10 hit game.

Wentz was rocked much harder than Dak last night. He took some brutal hits. He wasn’t sacked because he goes through his progressions much quicker he releases that ball quickly. That 4th down throw to Jeffery was a beauty( he was leveled on that play)

 

[percyhoward]

Chargers pass defense ranking?

vs SD 7th
vs Was 17th
at NYG 26th
at Oak 32nd
vs Sea 6th
at Phi 5th

 

[blindzebra]

Wentz was rocked much harder than Dak last night. He took some brutal hits. He wasn’t sacked because he goes through his progressions much quicker he releases that ball quickly. That 4th down throw to Jeffery was a beauty( he was leveled on that play)

Bull, and that play had more to do with his WR making a great play then the throw.

 

[Pessimist_cowboy]

Bull, and that play had more to do with his WR making a great play then the throw.

That pass was Aikman like. You can be in denial all you want. That’s a franchise qb throw that Dak can never make.

 

[Sepia]

You can't mug wide receiver anymore. You can't take out a defenseless receiver the middle anymore. You can't really even touch a guy after 5 yards. If you so much as brush a QB outside of center mass it's a penalty.

None of this applies to the Cowboys, unfortunately.

 

[khiladi]

The Eagles have the league's 5th-ranked pass defense, according to passer rating. They're the 6th different Top-5 pass defense Prescott has faced in just 27+ career games. Romo did not face any Top-5 pass defenses until 2008, his 3rd season as a starter. The best pass defense Tony faced in the 2006 season was the 6th-ranked Eagles. He posted a 45.5 passer rating in that game.

As comparisons go, the similarities are eerie in this one.

Prescott
vs. Top 5 Pass Defenses (6 games)
110 of 192 (57%) 1155 yd (6.0 ypa) 6 td 6 int 72.3

vs. #6-32 Pass Defenses (21.5 games)
426 of 628 (68%) 4935 yd (7.9 ypa) 36 td 6 int 106.4

Romo
first 6 career games vs. Top 5 Pass Defenses
124 of 213 (58%) 1472 yd (6.9 ypa) 7 td 8 int 74.7

first 21.5 games vs. #6-32 Pass Defenses
315 of 475 (66%) 4198 yd (8.8 ypa) 35 td 17 int 103.8

Come back to me when early Tony has this OL and a legitimate OC, instead of Jason Garrett calling plays and not being allowed even in game planning.. oh yeah and Zeke, instead of Felix Jones and Julius Jones..

 

[khiladi]

Romo also had the benefit of playing with a veteran OLine that had lots of stability and experience playing together from 2006-2009. Not a lot of games missed by Flozell, Gurode, Davis, and Colombo. Romo never had an OL that was breaking in 2-3 new starters like what we've seen this year until that OL got too old and they had to rebuild it in 2011.

Dak has the personality and character that you want from a young QB to improve. Unfortunately, I don't trust this coaching staff to be able to continue to develop him. Remember, David Lee was the assistant who helped develop Romo early on in his career. I highly doubt Wade Wilson and Garrett have what it takes to help Dak.

So your likening Dallas OL then to what many have argued is the best OL in football as being better? The line Dak was afforded was in its third year playing together and Dallas starting line essentially began together in 2006 the very first year Romo started with the exception of Davis..

David was brought in 2007 and was a bust in Arizona, Gurode was so dumb he couldn’t even call the plays despite beinf a Center.. Kyle Kosier who gave way to another journeyman for some time in Montrae Holland in 2009..

Just stop.. Romo was getting sacked close to 40 times a year and everybody was blaming the OL for the failure of Garrett’s offense among other excuses..

 

[DFWJC]

Most people were sick of Romo before he signed his last contract. The Lions game (where he single handedly lost it for us) had our fan base crushing him. Dont get me wrong I love the guy, but your 100% correct about people's memories.

The fact that you use the Lions game as an example of a single player losing a game all by himself....it just really silly. Come on now.

So did Dak--who had a light years worse game last night than Romo did in that Lions game--single handedly lose the game?

I dont think so.
Even though he did something last night Romo never did in his whole career--that is to not account for a single TD while having a massive TD to turnover difference of -4.

Even after all that, I would not say he single handedly lost that game.

And btw, Romo played that Detroit game with broken ribs and a healing punctured lung.
330 yards, 3 TDs and 3 turnovers (so a zero differencial) maybe isnt single handedly losing a game. It was borderline heroic that he played at all.