We hate on JG, some more than others and some even clamored for Jon Gruden. Why?

[northerncowboynation]

You have a point...to each his own, right? However, I am not the one creating a thread essentially designed to question the critics of Garrett. Apparently you want people to see Garrett in the same way you do.

If you want to be head over heals happy with the job he has done here I have no problem with that whatsoever. I would just question you as to why it appears you take issue with people who don’t like Garrett as you do?

lol, head over heals would be a stretch. In all honesty I have no expectations. I've been a fan since the mid 70's. I've learned not to have them in any sport. I expected more SB's after the last one but I stopped expecting that in about 1999 or 2000 after the team was dismantled by FA and injuries. My reason for starting the post was this... to show that 8 teams have been better than Garrett lead Cowboy teams and 21 have had fewer wins and less success (yes even in the play-offs). All of those 21 teams have changed coaches at least once over the past 7 years. My point was be careful what you wish for. Those 21 teams have proven over and over that it's not all on the HC or a change in HC would have changed their fortunes. It didn't. I'm not a Garret lover or hater. More of a realist

 

[northerncowboynation]

Yeah, just keep ccmplaining Dorothy, and maybe click your heels twice and see if JG gets replaced.

This is Kansas isn't it

 

[Haimerej]

I guess you could look at it different ways. For me, success is determined in the playoffs. I haven't studied the numbers but I'd be hard pressed to believe we are one of only 8 teams to have made the playoffs twice and only have 1 win. Overall record may be due to a couple good years with a bunch of mediocre years but that's not the kind of success I would be bragging about. Maybe Eagles fans would joy in those results but not the Cowboys whose expectations should be higher than regular season winning %.

Based on what? Shouldn't expectations be based on something tangible? There were signs last year (2016) that 13-3 wasn't something to expect. When Zeke got his suspension, it was pretty much season over for my expectations.

 

[northerncowboynation]

When it comes to Garrett...guys here take the approach of "Anything is better than what we have.....". People clamor for guys past their coaching prime like a Gruden.....a Bill Cowher........a Mike Shanahan...........

Yep there are 21 other teams that keep clamoring for HC changes too. Most have changed them. Most have found out that it's not all on the HC. In fact the most successful teams (NE, Steelers, Chiefs, Bengals, Ravens, Pak, seahawks and Saints) stick with one HC. Hell, the Saints have had some damned dismal season over the past 7 years spread among some good ones, Payton is still there. Man we'd have called for his head after 2014, 2015 and 2016!! Now look back In the playoffs! What??. After three 7-9 seasons on a row?? You must be joking. With Sean Patton as coach? Surely you jest.

We'd all like to think that firing Garrett will change our fortune. 21 teams have done that over the past 7 seasons. It usually doesn't turn out well. Does that mean we shouldn't try to improve? Try to improve the team through the draft? Hell no, improve and if the team still struggles along at 8-8 with no playoff appearances in the next year or two, fire the dude. I'm 50ish. I can wait a few more years

 

[Haimerej]

Yep there are 21 other teams that keep clamoring for HC changes too. Most have changed them. Most have found out that it's not all on the HC. In fact the most successful teams (NE, Steelers, Chiefs, Bengals, Ravens, Pak, seahawks and Saints) stick with one HC. Hell, the Saints have had some damned dismal season over the past 7 years spread among some good ones, Payton is still there. Man we'd have called for his head after 2014, 2015 and 2016!! Now look back In the playoffs! What??. After three 7-9 seasons on a row?? You must be joking. With Sean Patton as coach? Surely you jest.

We'd all like to think that firing Garrett will change our fortune. 21 teams have done that over the past 7 seasons. It usually doesn't turn out well. Does that mean we shouldn't try to improve? Try to improve the team through the draft? Hell no, improve and if the team still struggles along at 8-8 with no playoff appearances in the next year or two, fire the dude. I'm 50ish. I can wait a few more years

It's a talent driven league and it should be said this staff has done well with young players. The secondary was overhauled, they lost an All Pro for few games, and the defense improved.

 

[northerncowboynation]

It's a talent driven league and it should be said this staff has done well with young players. The secondary was overhauled, they lost an All Pro for few games, and the defense improved.

There are clear improvements we can make in the draft. I'm not going to name them because it ends in some useless debate about who the player should be and defense versus offense. Hell, some even wanted to lose the last few games so we could move up one or two spots in the draft!! If the scouts can't find quality guys at 19 with all of our needs then fire the scouting department first!!

I'm not even sold 100% on Prescott. I do believe this though, build the talent level on offense and defense. The team and talent will be there for the next HC or QB if we need one. If we succeed, full speed ahead, damn the icebergs!!

 

[Haimerej]

There are clear improvements we can make in the draft. I'm not going to name them because it ends in some useless debate about who the player should be and defense versus offense. I'm not even sold 100% on Prescott. I do believe this though, build the talent level on offense and defense. The team and talent will be there for the next HC or QB if we need one. If we succeed, full speed ahead, damn the icebergs!!

It took me a while to warm up to Dak. There's no doubt he's a project. Made my opinion known his rookie season and don't want to debate him anymore. He is the foreseeable future.

I think what the staff has accomplished not just with him but guys like Swaim, Brown, Collins, Irving, etc. are testaments of their teaching and dare I say, gameplanning. I know that's crazy thinking to some, but I don't see the benefit to blowing up what's in place. Hell, I could be wrong.

 

[CowboyRoy]

It took me a while to warm up to Dak. There's no doubt he's a project. Made my opinion known his rookie season and don't want to debate him anymore. He is the foreseeable future.

I think what the staff has accomplished not just with him but guys like Swaim, Brown, Collins, Irving, etc. are testaments of their teaching and dare I say, gameplanning. I know that's crazy thinking to some, but I don't see the benefit to blowing up what's in place. Hell, I could be wrong.

Project? LOL

Give me a break. Hes like most 2nd year QB's. He will get better with experience. But to act like this guy is some drummed down project is just laughable. Cut the Drama. Or are you another Romo cry baby?

 

[Haimerej]

Project? LOL

Give me a break. Hes like most 2nd year QB's. He will get better with experience. But to act like this guy is some drummed down project is just laughable. Cut the Drama. Or are you another Romo cry baby?

You think he's a finished product? More power to you.

 

[CowboyRoy]

You think he's a finished product? More power to you.

No, actually I said the opposite. I said hes like any 2nd year QB. He needs experience. But to act like hes some run of the mill late round project is laughable. Very laughable. Really never saw this kind of Dak hatred coming. Like Romo, I was so incredibly psyched to have such a great young talent for the next 10 years. Happy not to see Quincy Bong Carter or Testicle Verde behind center. But then you have the Romo cry babies come in. Just like you had the idiots cry that Romo wasnt Tom Brady. LOL

I completely get hating on players that suck and coaches that suck. But to hate on an incredible young QB like Dak doesnt even register with me. What is ironic is the same guys that stuck up for Romo against the jokers are now the same guys pulling the same nonsense on Dak. I love the guy.

And no he is no Tom Brady.

 

[Haimerej]

No, actually I said the opposite. I said hes like any 2nd year QB. He needs experience. But to act like hes some run of the mill late round project is laughable. Very laughable. Really never saw this kind of Dak hatred coming. Like Romo, I was so incredibly psyched to have such a great young talent for the next 10 years. Happy not to see Quincy Bong Carter or Testicle Verde behind center. But then you have the Romo cry babies come in. Just like you had the idiots cry that Romo wasnt Tom Brady. LOL

I completely get hating on players that suck and coaches that suck. But to hate on an incredible young QB like Dak doesnt even register with me. What is ironic is the same guys that stuck up for Romo against the jokers are now the same guys pulling the same nonsense on Dak. I love the guy.

And no he is no Tom Brady.

Who's hating on Dak? Lol

You take issue with me calling him a project... then go on to describe him as a project. Lol

 

[Beast_from_East]

I criticize also but I don’t do it ALL THE ******* TIME like you do. That’s my point. You keep ignoring that important fact.

Seems to me your posts are 99% apologist..............but you know what, I don't cry like a baby over what others post. If you want to post 100 messages a day over how great Garrett is and how great the Organization is, go for it, I really don't care as long as you follow the rules.

See, that is the difference between you and me, I don't care what you post or how many times you post it. You on the other hand go from thread to thread crying like a baby about what others post, in fact almost all of your posts lately are complaining about other posters. I would think you would have better things to do with your time than worry about what anonymous strangers say on the Internet, but maybe you don't.

 

[Aviano90]

lol, head over heals would be a stretch. In all honesty I have no expectations. I've been a fan since the mid 70's. I've learned not to have them in any sport. I expected more SB's after the last one but I stopped expecting that in about 1999 or 2000 after the team was dismantled by FA and injuries. My reason for starting the post was this... to show that 8 teams have been better than Garrett lead Cowboy teams and 21 have had fewer wins and less success (yes even in the play-offs). All of those 21 teams have changed coaches at least once over the past 7 years. My point was be careful what you wish for. Those 21 teams have proven over and over that it's not all on the HC or a change in HC would have changed their fortunes. It didn't. I'm not a Garret lover or hater. More of a realist

Who are your 8 teams? I can list off the top of my head more than 8 teams that have had more playoff success than the Cowboys.

1. New England
2. Pittsburgh
3. Baltimore
4. Seattle
5. Sf
7. Arizona
8. Carolina
9. Denver
10. Atlanta
11. Indianapolis
12. NY Giants
13. Houston Texans
14. KC and Cincy go to playoffs more often but rarely win like Dallas
15. If Jville or Philly wins this weekend they will have exceeded the Cowboys playoff success

That off the top of my head is 13 teams with more playoff success, 2 teams with with about the same success, and 2 team with the potential to jump us in success this weekend.

I would have to look through other teams records to see if they did something In the playoffs, but so don’t think they did. Teams like Miami and Detroit have made playoffs too. I know Detroit hasn’t won any games in them but not sure about Miami. Don’t remember the years NY Jets were going to the AFC Championship games so that may be another team with more playoff success than the Cowboys. But it’s early and I am on my phone so I don’t want to try and research all teams.

 

[Aviano90]

Based on what? Shouldn't expectations be based on something tangible? There were signs last year (2016) that 13-3 wasn't something to expect. When Zeke got his suspension, it was pretty much season over for my expectations.

Sure it should. You know my prediction for last year was 8-8 and I gave a laundry list of reasons why. But I am not going to consider a regular season wining % successful when the team rarely makes the playoffs.

 

[CCBoy]

Differences?

Gruden - looks for a staff that chew broken glass for breakfast.

Garrett - reverts to the clapper. He claps his hands and sees which coaches light up...good guys can exist, but leadership in battle is sorely missing,

 

[Cowboy89]

.... we hate on JG, some more than others. Some even clamored for Jon Gruden. Why? Gruden took a team built by Dungy and staff to 1 SB (the year of the inheritance) then nothing. In fact Gruden, in his career as a HC Gruden's teams were a combined 14 games over .500. Pretty much the same as JG coached teams with 12.

Fact, JG coached teams are 12 games over .500 over the past 8 years as a HC. 10 games over .500 if you throw out 2010. Only a handful of coaches and teams have had a better W/L record over the past seven years. Those teams are NE, Pittsburgh, Green Bay, Seattle, Baltimore, Denver, New Orleans. There are 20 or so teams who have had fewer wins than the Cowboys over those 7 years.

I don't know about the majority of Cowboy fans but that tells me that HC changes rarely change a teams W/L record. If it did, 20 or so teams would have a better W/L record than JG coached teams over the past 7 seasons because most of them have had at least one HC'ing change.

Discuss among yourselves

Oh, hi Mrs. Garrett. How is it going?

 

[northerncowboynation]

It took me a while to warm up to Dak. There's no doubt he's a project. Made my opinion known his rookie season and don't want to debate him anymore. He is the foreseeable future.

I think what the staff has accomplished not just with him but guys like Swaim, Brown, Collins, Irving, etc. are testaments of their teaching and dare I say, gameplanning. I know that's crazy thinking to some, but I don't see the benefit to blowing up what's in place. Hell, I could be wrong.

Like most, I was high on Dak in 2016. When Romo went down for the last time in the pre-season, then Moore, I remember thinking "please don't bring in another Weeden or Cassel". While some clamored for any number of over the hill FA QB's to be brought in, I was convinced we should find out exactly what we had in Prescott/Showers. It is a testament to management that we stuck with him. I thought we should sacrifice the season to find out. We did and found a "potential" QB of the future. The 5-6 wins I thought were possible under a rookie 4'th round QB turned in to 13. Yes, he's a bit of a project still but moldable I think. I compare him to Steve McNair who went on to a nice career with 10 years as a starter and 31,000 yards passing.

Agree, the coaching staff has done a nice job with the guys you named. Also agree the Dak v. Romo debate has gone on far too long. Heck, build the talent, if Dak isn't the guy when his contract is up, move on. At least the team will be solid for the "next one".

 

[CCBoy]

Like most, I was high on Dak in 2016. When Romo went down for the last time in the pre-season, then Moore, I remember thinking "please don't bring in another Weeden or Cassel". While some clamored for any number of over the hill FA QB's to be brought in, I was convinced we should find out exactly what we had in Prescott/Showers. It is a testament to management that we stuck with him. I thought we should sacrifice the season to find out. We did and found a "potential" QB of the future. The 5-6 wins I thought were possible under a rookie 4'th round QB turned in to 13. Yes, he's a bit of a project still but moldable I think. I compare him to Steve McNair who went on to a nice career with 10 years as a starter and 31,000 yards passing.

Agree, the coaching staff has done a nice job with the guys you named. Also agree the Dak v. Romo debate has gone on far too long. Heck, build the talent, if Dak isn't the guy when his contract is up, move on. At least the team will be solid for the "next one".

The sweet liner is buiding upon talent...but what then is the storyline for Cleveland? They have acquired a ton of talent, and will again this season...up front in the draft.

There is a limit for top shelf players, and Lee and Smith makes one wonder if a transition, even there, could well save the life with the destiny currently in the lens of today's camera.

 

[northerncowboynation]

Who are your 8 teams? I can list off the top of my head more than 8 teams that have had more playoff success than the Cowboys.

1. New England
2. Pittsburgh
3. Baltimore
4. Seattle
5. Sf
7. Arizona
8. Carolina
9. Denver
10. Atlanta
11. Indianapolis
12. NY Giants
13. Houston Texans
14. KC and Cincy go to playoffs more often but rarely win like Dallas
15. If Jville or Philly wins this weekend they will have exceeded the Cowboys playoff success

That off the top of my head is 13 teams with more playoff success, 2 teams with with about the same success, and 2 team with the potential to jump us in success this weekend.

I would have to look through other teams records to see if they did something In the playoffs, but so don’t think they did. Teams like Miami and Detroit have made playoffs too. I know Detroit hasn’t won any games in them but not sure about Miami. Don’t remember the years NY Jets were going to the AFC Championship games so that may be another team with more playoff success than the Cowboys. But it’s early and I am on my phone so I don’t want to try and research all teams.

I really think you should do a little leg work and check the records and success (remember we're talking 2011 to 2017, the Garrett years) of SF, Houston, Giants, and Arizona over that time period, including their playoff record. I would do it for you but it's a good exercise. Bahaha on the Jags and Eagles. The Eagles have been there once in since 2011, losing a WC game. The Jag offs, also once, this year. The post is about Garretts coaching record and how he his teams have fared since he took over versus the rest

 

[northerncowboynation]

Oh, hi Mrs. Garrett. How is it going?

Snowing like crazy