"Top Defenses" are overrated; this is still a QB league

[Mad_max]

It is a team driven league. It does not end with an elite QB, OL, run game and receivers.

The great Cowboys teams, Packers, Niners, Steelers and Patriots all have the same thing in common, balance. Those teams like the 85 Bears, 00 Ravens and 03 Bucs were one trick ponies and could not sustain because of the lack of balance.

In the off season, Belichick added two key pieces, Cooks and Gilmore, one for each side. He let some walk and kept his core and lest we forget, lost his best D player in Hightower and still overcame that. He continues to magically manage the cap and makes head scratching trades that all work out. But he is all about the team. He is the single best HC/GM in the league with attention to all 3 phases, that's not just buzz words to him.

By contrast, look at the Cowboys. How many times have they been caught flat footed at the end of the season with the cap? It is as if they do not look beyond the season ahead. They cannot achieve balance because they have failed to for so long to achieve. Balance has to be achieved to be sustained.

The lamest excuses for the Cowboys are the injuries. Other teams overcome them with backup QB's for 2 of the final 4. The Dallas Cowboys are no better at team building than they were 10 years ago.

Bellychickens is like Coach Landry used to be. Wasn't it Landry who said if he had a defense who kept the other team at 17 points his team could win lots of games?

Without an owner and Gm who know football then you are doomed to repeat past failures over and over.

 

[Jake]

Enough of this "build through the defense" crap. Give me a franchise QB with a stout OL, good HC, and serviceable defense and you can keep your "top notch" D with a pedestrian QB. This is the way it is in the modern day NFL. Especially since so many defensive maneuvers that were acceptable 30-40 years ago would get flagged today.

Edit: New England's D is better than average for sure, probably top 10 in the league, but they can be had too. But when you have Brady and Bill...

The Eagles win two playoff games by allowing 10 points in one and 7 in the other, with Nick Foles at QB, and your conclusion is defense is "crap".

 

[CPanther95]

Offense wins the regular season, defense wins Championships.

 

[condoin125]

Points per drive eliminates that static, and has a very strong correlation to wins. The Patriots gave up a ton of yards this year, but yards don't win games. They ranked 6th in points allowed per drive, 4th in red zone defense, and 5th in holding opponents scoreless without the benefit of a takeaway.

For all we know they may give up 50 in a couple of weeks, but if you're talking about the season so far, the Patriots' defense has been among the league's best.

Points per drive is certainly better than what I thought you were using (points per game/scoring defense) but it doesn't take into account the quality of the opponent. DVOA weighs the strength of the opponents faced by each team and I think is a far better stat when measuring team defense.

 

[LocimusPrime]

The formula is great QB and Defensive play.

Why are we trying to make it anything different?

Yes sir...

 

[LocimusPrime]

The difference between Romo and Dak is Romo had a Garrett who was complete control of the offensive play-calling and game planning. Dak at least has a more competent one in Linehan.

Romo was basically MVP throwing for 34 TDS and 9 INTs the one year he worked with Linehan.

The coaching analogy with Romo and Dak is faulty.

These comparisons just got to stop. Dak was surrounded with an all Pro OL and Zeke and an established running attack laid down by Callahan from the get go.

 

[Ranched]

You can win without a QB if you have all time great defenses like the 2003 Ravens, but these defenses are nowhere close to that.

Exactly. Perfect example was Peyton's last SB win. He was Pitiful from the 1st snap on.

 

[75boyz]

"What happened to that vaunted Jaguars D?"

Shredded in Pittsburgh AND New England

"What about the Vikings?"

Shredded by Nick Foles in a championship game (let that sink in for a while).

"Okay, well, Philly's D can take down Brady and the Patriots."

You know that will be the rhetoric over the next 2 weeks. If you believe that, let me have some of that kool aid you're drinking.

Enough of this "build through the defense" crap. Give me a franchise QB with a stout OL, good HC, and serviceable defense and you can keep your "top notch" D with a pedestrian QB. This is the way it is in the modern day NFL. Especially since so many defensive maneuvers that were acceptable 30-40 years ago would get flagged today.

Edit: New England's D is better than average for sure, probably top 10 in the league, but they can be had too. But when you have Brady and Bill...

Yeah 2000 Ravens with game manager Dilfer
Ditto 2002 Bucs with Brad Johnson was the gold standard defenses.

But then along came the 2013 Hawks destroying Peytons MVP season in 2013 in the bowl

And the Broncos dee did the same to Cams MVP season in 2015

So there are a couple of more recent examples

I think a "really good" to possibly "just good" defense can get the job done in today's NFL provided your offense consistently scores points.
If inconsisent offense, I will lean towards who has the better dee.

 

[khiladi]

You do know Romo at Dak's age was still pinned to the bench right?

But he was throwing rockets in practice and word was already coming out he was ridiculous, and Parcells was keeping him around while throwing out Hutchinson and Henson to keep Jerry away, while Dak was thrown into the fire because Romo got hurt and Moore as well. Guy never practiced well.

 

[khiladi]

Yeah 2000 Ravens with game manager Dilfer
Ditto 2002 Bucs with Brad Johnson was the gold standard defenses.

But then along came the 2013 Hawks destroying Peytons MVP season in 2013 in the bowl

And the Broncos dee did the same to Cams MVP season in 2015

So there are a couple of more recent examples

I think a "really good" to possibly "just good" defense can get the job done in today's NFL provided your offense consistently scores points.
If inconsisent offense, I will lean towards who has the better dee.

Hawks were the closest team to a 90s defense with their aggressive DB style of play and they totally locked down that offense..

Imagine these ‘complex offenses’ in that era..

 

[khiladi]

Richard Seymour, Ty Warren, Vrabel, Bruschi, Colvin, and Teddy Washington disagree w/ the DB thingie.

Seriously, those Pats D's were stacked top to bottom. I'd have to disagree they won it on DB play, but they did win their first 3 on D play. I think McGinest was there for at least 2 of them also.

I say that, because their DBs used to stifle Peyton Manning. But you are correct, I totally forgot about Seymour. Don’t forget Wilfork a few years later.

 

[Diehardblues]

"What happened to that vaunted Jaguars D?"

Shredded in Pittsburgh AND New England

"What about the Vikings?"

Shredded by Nick Foles in a championship game (let that sink in for a while).

"Okay, well, Philly's D can take down Brady and the Patriots."

You know that will be the rhetoric over the next 2 weeks. If you believe that, let me have some of that kool aid you're drinking.

Enough of this "build through the defense" crap. Give me a franchise QB with a stout OL, good HC, and serviceable defense and you can keep your "top notch" D with a pedestrian QB. This is the way it is in the modern day NFL. Especially since so many defensive maneuvers that were acceptable 30-40 years ago would get flagged today.

Edit: New England's D is better than average for sure, probably top 10 in the league, but they can be had too. But when you have Brady and Bill...

It’s actually takes a balance .

Interesting you’re not taking into account these were 3 of the top 4 defenses and best QB in the era in final four.

Instead your evaluation revolves around these single games instead of what brought them to the brink of a Super Bowl.

Brady was the only QB in this final 4 that would measure up. 2 of these QB were journeymen backups.

I do agree the NFL is elite QB driven along with elite defenses and this final 4 supports that.

 

[LocimusPrime]

 

[LocimusPrime]

 

[LocimusPrime]

Wow the Jags had one of the greatest defenses in history. Not bad not bad

 

[Diehardblues]

Not surprising . The #1 defense and #1 offense have met 6 times in the Super Bowl. Defense has won 5 of those .

Cowboys in 1992 was one of those defenses which are a great example of the balance needed.

 

[Diehardblues]

Brady is money!!! Who didn’t think they were coming back?

 

[LocimusPrime]

 

[TwoDeep3]

The rules of this game are skewed toward high scoring events. That keeps the interest of the fan base. This is simply a business decision by the league. 6-3 defensive games cause fans to change the channel.

Knowing this, every time I see defense wins championships, I have tpo wonder if the poster understands the league sanctions high scoring events by making the rules favoring the offense and the quarterback. Pass interference rules changed the outcome of the Pats/Jax game yesterday. The rules were the same for both teams. But evidently Brady and his receivers know how to exploit the opponents DBs.

This does not mean you can get away with a lousy defense. But an offense which holds the ball and scores touchdowns is the best defense going.

People will bring stats to the table and try and argue this. We just saw a weekend wherein the top defenses met and it was offense which won.

 

[Diehardblues]

Yep..

While Brady has often led less than average defenses to championship appearances he’s never won a Super Bowl without a top defense.