Another school shooting, Texas this time

[BillyBates]

You have nooooooo idea how disappointing this is as I've been filling out that ABQ with all kinds of delectable words, all of which would have gotten me benched.

But, in my defense, let me just say this. As young children, we all went through that naughty little boy stage. Just consider me the Peter Pan of Naughtiness.

you do realize P.Pan was a murderer in the book ? . indeed my dear CC we all did. I just never robbed, shot at or hurt anyone other than my self and pocket book getting through it.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Obviously there are good solutions to start in this post, but in my opinion, the root of this is due to greed. Let me explain.

When I was young, my father worked and my mother stayed home. She did not work. We had stability in the household because of that. At some point in the early 80's, greed overtook the country and all of the sudden both parents had to work to survive. Gone were the days of the "bread winner". Both parents worked because inflation set in. The cost of food, clothing, vehicles, gas, housing and taxes to name a few were overwhelming to a 1 working person household.

Then came the age of technology, and now social media. Two parents still have to work to have "the American dream", but no one is there for their kids.

I can rant on about this forever but to me, that is what started this whole thing. Sure these things took place when I was young, but not as frequent.

You can disagree all you want, but this is my opinion. That is why I also say that this isn't going away any time soon. Not until this country puts family values first instead of money first.

I agree and disagree. The movement for both parents to start working actually started in the 70s. The women's movement was what really pushed the whole, "Both Parents Working" idea. It really didn't start out as a financial issue, per say. Now, that's not a bad thing, I certainly understand why. However, what folks didn't understand, at the time, was that by creating this huge new work force, it upset the balance of supply and demand. Financials really kinda went upside down when business had this influx of workers. They no longer had to pay existing workers a higher wage for Blue Collar jobs. "Skilled Labor" was still ok but, most Americans faced a situation, in which, corporations leveraged the Female work force against the existing, predominantly Male, work force. Wages decreased because Women would work for less, in order to try and get their foot in the door, and Males were eventually forced to accept less or lose jobs to Females who were willing to work for less. The solution ended up being one where both parents worked more, to receive less in wages and benefits. Between the two parents, you could still build the "American Dream" but you lost out on the actual rearing of Children. That is kinda how we got to the point we are at in our society IMO.

JMO

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

You have nooooooo idea how disappointing this is as I've been filling out that ABQ with all kinds of delectable words, all of which would have gotten me benched.

But, in my defense, let me just say this. As young children, we all went through that naughty little boy stage. Just consider me the Peter Pan of Naughtiness.

Interestingly enough, years ago during the Quincy Carter Era, I was not a fan of Quincy. That whole thing was messy and people had side agendas over that entire thing that probably still exist today. Long story short, there were a certain faction of posters, on this board, that believed ABQ stood for Anybody But Quincy. Even though I tried to tell them that it's because I live in Albuquerque, they were just stubborn about it. Eventually it died down and things kinda came back to normal but yeah, you are not the first to get creative with the ABQ thing.

LOL......

 

[CouchCoach]

you do realize P.Pan was a murderer in the book ? . indeed my dear CC we all did. I just never robbed, shot at or hurt anyone other than my self and pocket book getting through it.

I am the good Peter Pan with the little angel on his shoulder,

 

[CouchCoach]

Interestingly enough, years ago during the Quincy Carter Era, I was not a fan of Quincy. That whole thing was messy and people had side agendas over that entire thing that probably still exist today. Long story short, there were a certain faction of posters, on this board, that believed ABQ stood for Anybody But Quincy. Even though I tried to tell them that it's because I live in Albuquerque, they were just stubborn about it. Eventually it died down and things kinda came back to normal but yeah, you are not the first to get creative with the ABQ thing.

LOL......

Betchya I could out naughty them though.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Betchya I could out naughty them though.

I feel like this is taking up too much space in your Brain Coach..........

 

[CouchCoach]

I feel like this is taking up too much space in your Brain Coach..........

Naaaaaaah, plenty of room in there.....I hear echoes.

 

[LocimusPrime]

For those that wish to talk about gun laws you can on our politics site Punndits.com

https://punndits.com/

Heck yeah!

 

[BigStar]

It's true, opportunity to target multiple individuals would be at the access point of a metal detector but, at least you have a chance to limit the situation. If you have armed, trained security, I guarantee that it will be much more difficult for a shooter to target kids. The shooter will have to target the threat of the security first. Multiple guards make that more difficult. To me, this strategy, in conjunction with automatic locking doors that would limit access to schools interiors would be a much more effective strategy in the short term.

This is a systemic problem and it's really not about guns. This is a problem that manifests itself through weapons and violence but thats really not the problem. The problem is what is causing this behavior in people. There will always be creative ways to hurt people and eventually, threats will evolve to defeat security measures but as of now, these are good steps. At least IMO. Now, all of those things will not be cheap but what price do you put on the lives of young people?

The method is not the problem. Unfortunately, that is what gets the focus but that is not the problem. The problem is the root cause for the behavior and that's what really needs to be studied, understood and addressed if we want to make real impact on this problem IMO.

Fire Alarm/bomb threat makes most of those preventive measures go out the window (for the most part). How many guards are going to defend a school with a 1,000 kids standing in the fields? Really my point is, I don't think having kids in a "compound" to become educated is the answer here. Usually when things begin as short term, they stick and do we want children becoming naturalized to being educated with armed guards around every corner?

 

[cowboy_ron]

I grew up in Hurst, Tx which is about halfway between Ft. Worth and Dallas...........back then I can't recall one time even seeing the police at any school, now they are needing police with an office at every campus and still these things happen so often to the tune of like 26 school shootings just in 2018 alone. I have my own belief as to why these are occuring but I won't elaborate any more to refrain from any religious or political posts being brought in.

It's not remotely the same world now as it was then on so many levels. There are many things that can't be fixed, and sadly, this is one of those things. Everything unfortunately, doesn't have a solution.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Fire Alarm/bomb threat makes most of those preventive measures go out the window (for the most part). How many guards are going to defend a school with a 1,000 kids standing in the fields? Really my point is, I don't think having kids in a "compound" to become educated is the answer here. Usually when things begin as short term, they stick and do we want children becoming naturalized to being educated with armed guards around every corner?

I don't see how a Fire Alarm/Bomb would defeat most of those measures. In order for a Fire Alarm to be pulled, you have to be inside. If you are inside and pull an Alarm, then you would have to vacate the building and I would guess that you would have responders to an Alarm. A shooter could stash weapons and try to target students at that point but, time would be very limited, you would still have armed security in the general area and you would still have a better situation to deal with the threat then simply having access to the building free and clear.

I understand you don't think that building walls to protect children is the answer but at this point, I've not heard a better solution. I mean, we can do nothing or, we can try to implement measures that would at least afford authorities a better chance to deal with the situation.

 

[BigStar]

I'm sure a timing device could do the trick in pulling the alarm and a bomb threat would do the same, but were just putting more icing on this crap cake. A HS occupied by grown men with weapons will surely change the dynamic of learning but may persuade a kid to go to a movie theater to act out this ugliness. Are there enough female officers to pat down all the female students bf entry? Turning public high schools into the TSA may sound good, but we all laugh at these measures now. Troubled kids would learn and adjust too; the same with common criminals.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

I'm sure a timing device could do the trick in pulling the alarm and a bomb threat would do the same, but were just putting more icing on this crap cake. A HS occupied by grown men with weapons will surely change the dynamic of learning but may persuade a kid to go to a movie theater to act out this ugliness. Are there enough female officers to pat down all the female students bf entry? Turning public high schools into the TSA may sound good, but we all laugh at these measures now. Troubled kids would learn and adjust too; the same with common criminals.

I don't know that the logistics are there but that's really a minor issue. I mean, it's a given that money would have to be spent to implement such a project.

When you say "timing device" what exactly are you talking about? Explosives, I'm assuming? How would that work? You can't plant that if security screens for it before you ever enter the structure. As I said earlier, I think a first step is to downsize the schools a great deal. We simply can not manage large student bodies effectively so the idea is to make schools smaller, build more schools to facilitate, manage the situation properly and add security to safe guard. Build a wall that prevents random entry. Set up security check points for access to buildings. Create a more secure environment to max your ability to protect/safeguard the students.

I said many years ago, after 9/11, that life was going to change forever and that we would never be able to go back to how it was again. I believed it then and I believe it now. I feel as if these measures are proof of that. Is it ideal? No. Is it full proof? No. Is it an appealing idea to anybody? No.

The question, at it's root is, how do you protect these children? At this point, I have not seen any real ideas that are practical. I'm happy to do it another way if there is a better idea but I have to be honest, I have seen that idea.

 

[BigStar]

That is a great practical first step and wish smaller school sizes would be implemented in public schools. They would be ideal for education (in general) and improve school safety. They're already closing schools and lumping them into one big HS to save $, but agree that it would be great first step and show investment into the problem, etc.

9/11 had us put up somewhat impractical screening methods that we joke about. I just see the same thing happening if we implemented heavy police/security presence in schools. Once they're there, they're staying there; quasi police state would become the new norm within HS grounds. Do we want that to become the new way of education? You can learn to scheme any system over time, including increased security. Look at some of the ingenious stuff prisoners come up with while having access to such limited resources.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

That is a great practical first step and wish smaller school sizes would be implemented in public schools. They would be ideal for education (in general) and improve school safety. They're already closing schools and lumping them into one big HS to save $, but agree that it would be great first step and show investment into the problem, etc.

9/11 had us put up somewhat impractical screening methods that we joke about. I just see the same thing happening if we implemented heavy police/security presence in schools. Once they're there, they're staying there; quasi police state would become the new norm within HS grounds. Do we want that to become the new way of education? You can learn to scheme any system over time, including increased security. Look at some of the ingenious stuff prisoners come up with while having access to such limited resources.

I would hope that the 17 odd years of experience in this area would help a great deal in how we go about this. I do wonder if these kinds of measures would be received well by students and parents after the initial wave subsides. I would hope that they do. I mean, you see students protesting almost every day and same with parents. I would hope that they would understand that this is all about practical efforts to safe guard our children. It's nobodies desired situation but, I see no other practical method, at present.

JMO

 

[ksadler1]

Unfortunately this will never end. They may be able to come up with some plan to eliminate a shooter from entering the school building, but then the shootings will happen outside in the parking lot or when students are beginning to enter the building. This issue is complicated with no real way to completely end it.

You're absolutely correct. This is the world we live in people. There are a lot of very large high schools in this country. If you put walls around them and only have a few entry/exit access points, you're just helping to create more mass casualties by herding people together in large groups. Unfortunately, there is no way to completely prevent this from happening. All you can do is try to minimize it. I don't care if you have 20 armed guards in every school. Anything put in place can be defeated. Minimizing casualties is your only option. It's like giving a restraining order to a domestic violence victim. It's supposed to help protect the victim, but it's a piece of paper. Very similar to what a wall around a school would represent...

 

[TheCount]

You're absolutely correct. This is the country we live in people.

Fixed that for you.

 

[zrinkill]

Just horrible

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

You're absolutely correct. This is the world we live in people. There are a lot of very large high schools in this country. If you put walls around them and only have a few entry/exit access points, you're just helping to create more mass casualties by herding people together in large groups. Unfortunately, there is no way to completely prevent this from happening. All you can do is try to minimize it. I don't care if you have 20 armed guards in every school. Anything put in place can be defeated. Minimizing casualties is your only option. It's like giving a restraining order to a domestic violence victim. It's supposed to help protect the victim, but it's a piece of paper. Very similar to what a wall around a school would represent...

I don't think so. The idea is controlled access points. The idea is not controlled exit points. Big difference there.

 

[ksadler1]

I don't think so. The idea is controlled access points. The idea is not controlled exit points. Big difference there.

That's not the point. You can't have a crowd of people standing around waiting to be screened. It's a mass casualty situation waiting to happen. It's the same concept when exiting. You're getting people through specific points and once they exit they are completely exposed. You cannot prevent this stuff. Schools are not the only soft targets in America. Churches, malls, restaurants, ANY crowded venue. Americans are a reactive bunch. To be proactive is give up civil liberties and that's not happening in the US. But yes, in a secure environment like that, exit points are also controlled...