Another school shooting, Texas this time

[ABQCOWBOY]

I totally agree, it depends on how determined the individual/s are. Barriers such as a fence do work but they are not infallible. Laws do not stop the lawless. In a free society such as ours, a determined culprit with the right resourses is unstopable. But let's be honest with ourselves, these crimes aren't being commited by criminal masterminds. Lazy parenting, lax law enforcement, and incompetence are usually the contributing factors that allow these kids to access weapons and get them in school to kill. We know how to lock up weapons and monitor our children's social media and be involved in our children's lives. These things alone will prevent most of these shootings. A proactive police force plus proactive parents can nip these tragedies in the bud.

That's true. I agree with you Joe.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Pretty much this. America is not willing to do what needs to be done to stop these shootings from happening. Sandy Hook was the moment to do something, if that didn't get a response, none of these shootings will.

I don't agree with this entirely. I mean, I do agree that people are going to have to accept certain changes that will not be easy to accept and that's on both sides BTW, but, the real problem to me is that either side does agree on what the solution is. That's the real problem IMO. At this point, the wrong decision could easily make this problem much bigger, much more serious and that is a real fear that I believe everybody has.

 

[visionary]

Nothing will stop a very determined individual. Not laws, not precautions, not anything. If you are determined and if you have the resources, it's going to happen. That's not in question, that's just the reality. The idea of fences acting as a deterrent is not out of the question. It limits access and creates controlled access points for authorities to provide better, tighter security. This only limits the threat but it doesn't remove it. That's never going to be a possibility IMO. You can't guarantee anybodies safety 100%. That's just the world we live in.

The world?
Perhaps I'm missing news about ALL THOSE school shootings in Europe or Australia (you know, other developed countries)

The elephant in the room cannot be ignored if we want our kids to be safe
Burying our collective heads in sand based on an excuse trumpeted by those taking in loads of money is not the answer

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

I hear your point in implementing them in areas that didn't have them bf; like suburban HS where this is most prevalent. But even if you know the layout, that would take one gunshot out of nowhere to make the guard an afterthought in bogarting the metal detectors and still result in the mass murder of students/faculty or even lining them up for slaughter as they're all waiting to go through security checks as someone else pointed out.

Metal detectors are aimed more for students not to use the weapons in altercations that can escalate while within school grounds; why they sneak them in just in case (protection) or it's a personal thing, etc. These kids are coming in with a purpose and a checkpoint would be an easy thing to plan around. Your bolded point is the elephant in the room but can't go down that route due to the political nature.

It's true, opportunity to target multiple individuals would be at the access point of a metal detector but, at least you have a chance to limit the situation. If you have armed, trained security, I guarantee that it will be much more difficult for a shooter to target kids. The shooter will have to target the threat of the security first. Multiple guards make that more difficult. To me, this strategy, in conjunction with automatic locking doors that would limit access to schools interiors would be a much more effective strategy in the short term.

This is a systemic problem and it's really not about guns. This is a problem that manifests itself through weapons and violence but thats really not the problem. The problem is what is causing this behavior in people. There will always be creative ways to hurt people and eventually, threats will evolve to defeat security measures but as of now, these are good steps. At least IMO. Now, all of those things will not be cheap but what price do you put on the lives of young people?

The method is not the problem. Unfortunately, that is what gets the focus but that is not the problem. The problem is the root cause for the behavior and that's what really needs to be studied, understood and addressed if we want to make real impact on this problem IMO.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

I’ll better you one than that. Quit reporting it altogether. It feeds the monster itself. People see too much,with these 24/7 news cycles and it effects and influences our culture in so many negative ways. They don’t take ANY responsibility for anything. I’ve asked about it,but you’ll get bull crap excuses. “Yeah,well,I need a job too you know blah,blah,blah.” What a morally wrong cop out of an excuse is that? I don’t get my community in an uproar,or help create an evironment that leads to people getting killed!!!

And they learn from each attack. Each attack provides more information and you then see a more developed plan of attack from these individuals. That's a problem for sure.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Can we please get free mental health care now?

I'd say yes, if you are found to be mentally unstable. If you are trying to say that we need free health care, which I am not saying you are, but I am saying that that kind of statement would be considered political.

That's probably not a part of the discussion we would want to go to. Just FYI

 

[visionary]

It's true, opportunity to target multiple individuals would be at the access point of a metal detector but, at least you have a chance to limit the situation. If you have armed, trained security, I guarantee that it will be much more difficult for a shooter to target kids. The shooter will have to target the threat of the security first. Multiple guards make that more difficult. To me, this strategy, in conjunction with automatic locking doors that would limit access to schools interiors would be a much more effective strategy in the short term.

This is a systemic problem and it's really not about guns. This is a problem that manifests itself through weapons and violence but thats really not the problem. The problem is what is causing this behavior in people. There will always be creative ways to hurt people and eventually, threats will evolve to defeat security measures but as of now, these are good steps. At least IMO. Now, all of those things will not be cheap but what price do you put on the lives of young people?

The method is not the problem. Unfortunately, that is what gets the focus but that is not the problem. The problem is the root cause for the behavior and that's what really needs to be studied, understood and addressed if we want to make real impact on this problem IMO.

This is so confusing to me

Saying "this is not about guns" is not a political statement but saying "this is about guns and we need tighter gun control laws and several limit access to guns" is political ?

Right

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

The world?
Perhaps I'm missing news about ALL THOSE school shootings in Europe or Australia (you know, other developed countries)

The elephant in the room cannot be ignored if we want our kids to be safe
Burying our collective heads in sand based on an excuse trumpeted by those taking in loads of money is not the answer

Perhaps you are visionary. This elephant you elude to better not be discussion around gun banning etc. It better not be political because you know what's coming if it is.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

This is so confusing to me

Saying "this is not about guns" is not a political statement but saying "this is about guns and we need tighter gun control laws and several limit access to guns" is political ?

Right

I never mentioned anything about need more gun control laws. Stop trying to make this political. Last warning.

 

[Chrispierce]

And they learn from each attack. Each attack provides more information and you then see a more developed plan of attack from these individuals. That's a problem for sure.

I know where it comes from. It’s not specifically the media...but posters on social media responding to media stories. I see what’s being posted,and alllll the time you’ll have knuckleheads posting how to do this and that. “Loool! Oh that’s not going to work,I can easily just use X,Y,and Z and there’s your A grade this and that.” Brilliant people....they think no one is reading,and think nothing of it. Meanwhile little Johnny there is taking notes. You should see the inflammatory things,and “implied” threats they say too. They get people soooo charged up from tomato throwing,not realizing kids are extremely impressionable,and being young... idealists who act on things,because of what’s around them and being said. They think everyone is a racist,a bigot,a facist,a homophobe,a liberal,a 3% er hard righter ect,ect. ....it’s dangerous,and words DO have consequences. It’s mature subject matter,ones they can’t digest like an adult. Even adults can’t disgest this scale of rhetoric,much less them. It’s all a reflection of our current climate. But it’s here to stay,and is only going to get worse. The Pandora’s Box was opened,and that little genie can not be put back in his bottle.

 

[Tabascocat]

This is beyond political now, take it to punndits

 

[Quickdraw]

It's true, opportunity to target multiple individuals would be at the access point of a metal detector but, at least you have a chance to limit the situation. If you have armed, trained security, I guarantee that it will be much more difficult for a shooter to target kids. The shooter will have to target the threat of the security first. Multiple guards make that more difficult. To me, this strategy, in conjunction with automatic locking doors that would limit access to schools interiors would be a much more effective strategy in the short term.

This is a systemic problem and it's really not about guns. This is a problem that manifests itself through weapons and violence but thats really not the problem. The problem is what is causing this behavior in people. There will always be creative ways to hurt people and eventually, threats will evolve to defeat security measures but as of now, these are good steps. At least IMO. Now, all of those things will not be cheap but what price do you put on the lives of young people?

The method is not the problem. Unfortunately, that is what gets the focus but that is not the problem. The problem is the root cause for the behavior and that's what really needs to be studied, understood and addressed if we want to make real impact on this problem IMO.

Bravo ABQ. I could not have said it better.

 

[visionary]

I never mentioned anything about need more gun control laws. Stop trying to make this political. Last warning.

That's exactly my point

I won't say anything further but the point is that saying "this is not a gun issue" is just as much a political statement as saying the opposite

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

That's exactly my point

I won't say anything further but the point is that saying "this is not a gun issue" is just as much a political statement as saying the opposite

Very well, would you agree that the real problem here is the reasons behind why these children are contemplating mass murder? Would you not say that this is the real problem? To me, it's clearly the real problem. The delivery method is not what the problem is IMO, Guns, knives, bombs, vehicals, fire, poison, drugs, whatever it is. All of these are just delivery methods. The real problem is the desire of these individuals to kill other children. To me, there is nothing political or even bias about that statement. If you disagree, that's OK with me but just don't try to take this discussion political. That will result in stuff that I really do not want to have to do.

I like you and I pretty much always have so don't make me have to do that. Lets just try to discuss within guidelines.

That's all I'm saying here.

 

[visionary]

Very well, would you agree that the real problem here is the reasons behind why these children are contemplating mass murder? Would you not say that this is the real problem? To me, it's clearly the real problem. The delivery method is not what the problem is IMO, Guns, knives, bombs, vehicals, fire, poison, drugs, whatever it is. All of these are just delivery methods. The real problem is the desire of these individuals to kill other children. To me, there is nothing political or even bias about that statement. If you disagree, that's OK with me but just don't try to take this discussion political. That will result in stuff that I really do not want to have to do.

I like you and I pretty much always have so don't make me have to do that. Lets just try to discuss within guidelines.

That's all I'm saying here.

My point is that people are allowed to state and go on and on about one side of the issue without it being considered a political statement but no one can bring up the other side because they will be banned

Opinions on BOTH sides of this issue are either political or not

Can't have it both ways

 

[CouchCoach]

It's true, opportunity to target multiple individuals would be at the access point of a metal detector but, at least you have a chance to limit the situation. If you have armed, trained security, I guarantee that it will be much more difficult for a shooter to target kids. The shooter will have to target the threat of the security first. Multiple guards make that more difficult. To me, this strategy, in conjunction with automatic locking doors that would limit access to schools interiors would be a much more effective strategy in the short term.

This is a systemic problem and it's really not about guns. This is a problem that manifests itself through weapons and violence but thats really not the problem. The problem is what is causing this behavior in people. There will always be creative ways to hurt people and eventually, threats will evolve to defeat security measures but as of now, these are good steps. At least IMO. Now, all of those things will not be cheap but what price do you put on the lives of young people?

The method is not the problem. Unfortunately, that is what gets the focus but that is not the problem. The problem is the root cause for the behavior and that's what really needs to be studied, understood and addressed if we want to make real impact on this problem IMO.

We react and recoil from the symptoms because getting to the cause is really such a difficult task. The entire psychiatric and child psychology fields are frustrated because they feel if only they could get to a kid like that, they might be able to help them and prevent something like this.

However, as the details about this are coming out, it is alarming because the signs weren't apparent. How many adolescents go through rough water? Which ones are most likely to act in a violent manner and how do they legally prevent that? This guy was gloating and laughing and playing with the victims as he was shooting or trying to shoot them. He had gone from just a guy to the personification of evil in a short trip and according to his family, no one saw anything like this coming. Yes, we hear that a lot but does that not make it true? The victims' and their families are not the only victims in this.

As far as his family catching blame for not monitoring his social media, how many pissed off kids are out there right now venting on social media and how many know where the guns are in the house and how easily they can get them? If a kid is going to a dark place, they do not necessarily show that side at home. Haven't we all known kids when we were kids that were different around their family? People have the tendency to hide things from their families really well, especially when they hit that 15 year old point.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

My point is that people are allowed to state and go on and on about one side of the issue without it being considered a political statement but no one can bring up the other side because they will be banned

Opinions on BOTH sides of this issue are either political or not

Can't have it both ways

I think that goes both ways. I mean, there certainly are areas that the other side can not broach either and I have made that clear to posters who lean right, in this thread. I don't think that saying the method of mass murder is not the issue, is a political statement. However, if you think that it is, then I would recommend that you bring this up to one of the other staff and ask them to review it. One of the great things about this board is that even MODs are not above the rules. We must also adhere to our rules so there is a process in place, where by all the Staff can review all violations handed out and can review all discussions. I encourage you to do this.

Hey, I'm not opposed to having my posts reviewed and I'm not above receiving disciplines either. I'm OK with it.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

We react and recoil from the symptoms because getting to the cause is really such a difficult task. The entire psychiatric and child psychology fields are frustrated because they feel if only they could get to a kid like that, they might be able to help them and prevent something like this.

However, as the details about this are coming out, it is alarming because the signs weren't apparent. How many adolescents go through rough water? Which ones are most likely to act in a violent manner and how do they legally prevent that? This guy was gloating and laughing and playing with the victims as he was shooting or trying to shoot them. He had gone from just a guy to the personification of evil in a short trip and according to his family, no one saw anything like this coming. Yes, we hear that a lot but does that not make it true? The victims' and their families are not the only victims in this.

As far as his family catching blame for not monitoring his social media, how many pissed off kids are out there right now venting on social media and how many know where the guns are in the house and how easily they can get them? If a kid is going to a dark place, they do not necessarily show that side at home. Haven't we all known kids when we were kids that were different around their family? People have the tendency to hide things from their families really well, especially when they hit that 15 year old point.

Well, I agree. What's more, young people have a tendency to not share details of behavior with adults. We are sort of the enemy right? So you don't nark on other kids, you just know about it and that's really not helpful to the discussion. There is nothing easy about this issue IMO. I actually think that a huge part of the problem is that we, as a society, try to turn this into a political issue and that's really not the way to solve it. To me, that creates more problems then it solves.

JMO

 

[visionary]

I think that goes both ways. I mean, there certainly are areas that the other side can not broach either and I have made that clear to posters who lean right, in this thread. I don't think that saying the method of mass murder is not the issue, is a political statement. However, if you think that it is, then I would recommend that you bring this up to one of the other staff and ask them to review it. One of the great things about this board is that even MODs are not above the rules. We must also adhere to our rules so there is a process in place, where by all the Staff can review all violations handed out and can review all discussions. I encourage you to do this.

Hey, I'm not opposed to having my posts reviewed and I'm not above receiving disciplines either. I'm OK with it.

I'm not talking about you specifically, just something I see as lopsided in general

Let's move on. Thx

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

I'm not talking about you specifically, just something I see as lopsided in general

Let's move on. Thx

Hey, I promise that I will try to keep it level set. I'm not infallible so it's OK to me if a poster points something out and says, "hey, don't you think that xyz might be abc?" That's honest discussion and to me, that's a positive in any important issue. The problem comes when it's oriented around agenda or combative because then, it has no chance to evolve and the thread just deteriorates. Way too important an issue to allow this to happen IMO.

If I am not doing justice to this thread, you have my apologies. I will try to do better but I agree, lets move on and discuss the issue. That discussion is much more important then I am.