Another school shooting, Texas this time

[DallasDomination]

Anybody can be a parent but to really be a father or mother it takes hard work. And now a days with the work we put in it leaves less and less time for the kids. If you are a stay at home dad/mom these issues should never happen. That's lazy parenting. Once you have kids you have a job to do.

Second issue i see. Society and new gen parents tend to coddle their kids. They avoid the real topics and tell them the lazy b.s. that will never work. You are amazing, a gift to earth, you can have whatever your heart desires.

Are you kidding me? No wonder these kids snap when they realize they can't have whatever they want. Sit them down and teach them life. Not give them a b.s. story and go back to doing whatever the heck these people do.

Getting bullied is an issue and always will be. However I feel kids now a days are not mentally prepared for it. It's scary.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

That's not the point. You can't have a crowd of people standing around waiting to be screened. It's a mass casualty situation waiting to happen. It's the same concept when exiting. You're getting people through specific points and once they exit they are completely exposed. You cannot prevent this stuff. Schools are not the only soft targets in America. Churches, malls, restaurants, ANY crowded venue. Americans are a reactive bunch. To be proactive is give up civil liberties and that's not happening in the US. But yes, in a secure environment like that, exit points are also controlled...

Actually it is the point. I guess I don't understand the scenario you are trying to articulate here. If the school is walled in and you have screened everybody who enters and there is no open access to this area, how are you going to have somebody with a gun targeting students during something like a fire alarm? The exit points would theoretically be inside the secured perimeter. The exit points exiting the secured campus would not be where children wait during something like a fire alarm. And remember, if it is a situation where the fire alarm is false, then you can always bring the children back into the building and defend from there. This is not a situation where you have trained soldiers breaching a building and you would have armed security personnel so I am not understanding where the threat would come from in that situation? I agree that there are plenty of targets in a free and open society but you can't have it both ways. You can either decide to protect people or you can live with the threat. Which do you wanna do? Whichever you decide, you take steps to make that successful. If you don't want to do this, that's fine but then you really can't complain about results. If you've ever been to Israel, then you kinda know what it takes to combat terrorism throughout your entire state. It's not pretty and even then, it's still not completely successful. Once again, these steps are not going to be 100% successful but the idea is to take steps to minimize the threat, understanding that these measures won't eliminate it entirely. If you want to realize that objective, then it's a completely different discussion and one that probably can't be discussed on this board.

As I have consistently said, throughout this thread, I am open to ideas that might show more promise of success but lets hear them. I have yet to see anything that might prove to be a better idea. Do not misunderstand me. This is not ideal for me. This is the only idea that I have heard discussed that might prove to be most effective.

 

[ksadler1]

Actually it is the point. I guess I don't understand the scenario you are trying to articulate here. If the school is walled in and you have screened everybody who enters and there is no open access to this area, how are you going to have somebody with a gun targeting students during something like a fire alarm? The exit points would theoretically be inside the secured perimeter. The exit points exiting the secured campus would not be where children wait during something like a fire alarm. And remember, if it is a situation where the fire alarm is false, then you can always bring the children back into the building and defend from there. This is not a situation where you have trained soldiers breaching a building and you would have armed security personnel so I am not understanding where the threat would come from in that situation? I agree that there are plenty of targets in a free and open society but you can't have it both ways. You can either decide to protect people or you can live with the threat. Which do you wanna do? Whichever you decide, you take steps to make that successful. If you don't want to do this, that's fine but then you really can't complain about results. If you've ever been to Israel, then you kinda know what it takes to combat terrorism throughout your entire state. It's not pretty and even then, it's still not completely successful. Once again, these steps are not going to be 100% successful but the idea is to take steps to minimize the threat, understanding that these measures won't eliminate it entirely. If you want to realize that objective, then it's a completely different discussion and one that probably can't be discussed on this board.

As I have consistently said, throughout this thread, I am open to ideas that might show more promise of success but lets hear them. I have yet to see anything that might prove to be a better idea. Do not misunderstand me. This is not ideal for me. This is the only idea that I have heard discussed that might prove to be most effective.

I agree with most of your points here, especially about Israel. They are masters at counter-terrorism. But as you said, even they are susceptible to it at times. Americans, in general, would never accept their tactics though. My only counter-point to your "walled school" is that a walled school is still not secure. Granted, I know we're talking about youthful offenders here, but you as well as I know that there are much greater threats to our children out there. I agree with you 100% about taking steps to make "whatever we try" successful. I just know it won't work in this country. We're all about civil liberties here and what we'd need to do would violate most of them. I also agree that no matter what we do, it will not be completely successful and would need to continually evolve. I wish this kind of thing was preventable, but it never will be. In fact, I see it getting much much worse...

 

[jterrell]

Ultimately mass shootings aren't going away and it will take a centrist, non-partisan action item list to severely reduce them.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

I agree with most of your points here, especially about Israel. They are masters at counter-terrorism. But as you said, even they are susceptible to it at times. Americans, in general, would never accept their tactics though. My only counter-point to your "walled school" is that a walled school is still not secure. Granted, I know we're talking about youthful offenders here, but you as well as I know that there are much greater threats to our children out there. I agree with you 100% about taking steps to make "whatever we try" successful. I just know it won't work in this country. We're all about civil liberties here and what we'd need to do would violate most of them. I also agree that no matter what we do, it will not be completely successful and would need to continually evolve. I wish this kind of thing was preventable, but it never will be. In fact, I see it getting much much worse...

Yes it will. 9/11 was a very sad day in all our lives. The world changed for the worse that day and not just a little but a lot. I wished we were not having to make these kinds of decisions but unfortunately, that's the world today.

Sucks.....

Edit:

As an aside, I think it's really important to keep in mind that whatever we do or don't do today, will be accepted as norm for future generations. All people should realize this to me. That is the beginning of how you make decisions with no bias, to me. Understand that your childen's children will have to face the world we create on the daily. JMO

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Ultimately mass shootings aren't going away and it will take a centrist, non-partisan action item list to severely reduce them.

Truth....

 

[jterrell]

Ideas and Random thoughts.
1. Gun ownership licenses. Exact same concept as driver's licenses. In fact could be tied to to your driver's license much like being an organ donor.
1a. Means one in person passing of a test and off you go. You simply input any gun info in your renewals. Maybe you go in person every 8th or 10th year.
1b: Gun ownership should not be easier than voting.
1c: People doing conceal and carry permits in Texas are doing it right! They often get out of tickets and such and took a basic course.

2. Enforce private sales and gun shows using background checks. Right now if I wanted to shoot up anything there's zero reason for me to go through a tedious back ground check and such. Merely visit a gun show or work with a private seller. I might pay a bit more but who cares I'm a terrorist loser whose theoretically gonna off himself anyway in this scenario.

3. Admit gun ownership is a very American idea and right. We aren't doing away with guns. Give that up. And by the same token
stop crying that they are gonna take your guns. You not only sound ridiculously uneducated but make the case for taking guns stronger.
3a. Stop being obtuse and acting as if we have rights to unregulated weaponry without constraint. Here you go sir let me wrap that bazooka for you.
3b. Anyone walking around Walmart with an AR15 should be punched in the face. I'd make this a law.

4. Understand laws are broken all the time but a combination of laws can seriously reduce occurrences as it has in every other country.
4a. Make laws harsh enough that people generally account for, secure and legally obtain weapons with background checks.
4b. Hold gun owners accountable as we would say pit bull owner or swimming pool owners. Dangerous negligence is hardly a new concept.

5. Make mass shootings a FEDERAL death penalty case. And go after anyone that hyped that person up online or radicalized them under RICO.

6. Encourage hunting. It may seem a brutal bloodsport but the grassfed free range meat is much better for you than the cattle farms where they are fattened up off nothing but corn mash and steroids. Try freshly hunted Elk back strap. The perfect food imho.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

My only counter-point to your "walled school" is that a walled school is still not secure. Granted, I know we're talking about youthful offenders here, but you as well as I know that there are much greater threats to our children out there.

I actually see walls as a first step and a transitional move towards a more sophisticated approach on how best to safe guard our children. A big part of the answer here is building new schools that are smaller and designed to make it much easier to protect and defend. This is just a small part of the fix. Things like reinstitution of Mental Facilities and an improved methodology towards identifying abnormalities in behavioral patterns, turning more control over to educators with regards to discipline in schools, improving technologies which allow for superior detection measures, all of these things come into play and this is just the tip of the iceberg, so to speak. Money is going to be a huge part of this and so are opinions on how to teach our children but those are battles that will have to be fought. That is why none partisan behavior is essential to any solution but will we have that? I am hopeful but I don't know.

It's a huge mess and it's coming for a long time. There is a reason nobody has dealt with this issue.

There are greater threats to our children out there, that's true. I think the problem is that America can't stand to see Children killing other Children. That's the real problem here. If Adults kill other Children, then that's obviously terrible as well but, that's something that you prosecute and hope the offender is delt with in a permanent manner. I.E., gone for society forever. With Children, that' kind of solution creates a societal ethical dilema and we can not get right with that as a people. This is the problem we face and I'm not sure that it's really a problem that we should really ever overcome. I think that as terrible as it is, America should never feel real good about what or how we prosecute children or how their deaths effect us. It's very sad problem to have but I think it's a very healthy problem to have as well. It's speaks to the basic decency of our Nation, to me.

 

[YosemiteSam]

Another school shooting in Indiana. Woohoo!

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Another school shooting in Indiana. Woohoo!

As long as it gets mega coverage from the media, it's going to be a situation we see played out in multiple areas.

 

[RustyBourneHorse]

I just want to say that it is absolutely atrocious that things like this keep ha

Very true....we have a serious culture problem going on,and I don’t know how that could change. Everyone’s amped up,politically and emotionally fired up to 10,with guns,violence and hatred sweeping the nation like a storm. Bad recipe....but a good one for chaos.

I agree. The time for hatred must come to an end and soon. If we want to see an end to this violence, we need to stop with the hatred and learn to respect one another. Does that mean you have to like the other person? No (though, it'd be nice if that DID happen), but at least respect one another. To quote a character from one of my all-time favorite movies from one of my all time favorite cartoons, maybe if we start looking at what's the same instead of what's different, well, who knows? Maybe it'd help if we start to look for that which share rather than what we lack that someone else has. Maybe that can help our society.

 

[JohnnyTheFox]

In lieu of starting another thread am going to post this here...…….

Thursday night a man shot a few people @ Louie's restaurant which basically is lakeside at lake Hefner here in OKC Okla. I believe he managed to wound 2-3 people before a carrying citizen discharged his weapon killing him.
https://newsok.com/article/5595860/shootings-reported-near-britton-and-lake-hefner-parkway

I have watched a few of his video's and its pretty evident he had schizophrenia or some other sort of mental illness. Not taking sides in anyway but its just sad he couldn't get the help he needed and{clearly}was asking for.

 

[9darter]

I'm sorry to be the messenger here, but this might be the age of the bullied and socially rejected to act against ... you know ... bullying and social rejection.

Look it up. Quite a few of these people have literally explained it flat out. Maybe not all of them, but there's a common theme of reaction against perceived oppression.

And yet, here we are, 10 pages deep in this thread, after numerous other disasters, and still no one cares to think of anything other than punishment and how to further marginalize these people. Well, let's predict the outcome of that. Sigh.

Personally, I have come to the conclusion that society has to care a little more about its 'outsiders'.

 

[Tabascocat]

I'm sorry to be the messenger here, but this might be the age of the bullied and socially rejected to act against ... you know ... bullying and social rejection.

Look it up. Quite a few of these people have literally explained it flat out. Maybe not all of them, but there's a common theme of reaction against perceived oppression.

And yet, here we are, 10 pages deep in this thread, after numerous other disasters, and still no one cares to think of anything other than punishment and how to further marginalize these people. Well, let's predict the outcome of that. Sigh.

Personally, I have come to the conclusion that society has to care a little more about its 'outsiders'.

Bullying has been discussed here many times, I brought that up early on in post #86. There were other replies from a few of us but got deleted due to someone getting too political, but they were there.

 

[OmerV]

I'm sorry to be the messenger here, but this might be the age of the bullied and socially rejected to act against ... you know ... bullying and social rejection.

Look it up. Quite a few of these people have literally explained it flat out. Maybe not all of them, but there's a common theme of reaction against perceived oppression.

And yet, here we are, 10 pages deep in this thread, after numerous other disasters, and still no one cares to think of anything other than punishment and how to further marginalize these people. Well, let's predict the outcome of that. Sigh.

Personally, I have come to the conclusion that society has to care a little more about its 'outsiders'.

Obviously people should be taught to respect everyone, but the problem is more than just bullying or people feeling like outsiders. That isn't a new thing in society, and really probably is no worse now than it has ever been. It's that those that feel like outsiders are starting to see murder/mass murder as a reasonable response to it. In some cases I don't believe direct bullying was even involved, just more a person being different and not feeling accepted or part of his peer group. And there will always be people like that simply because all people aren't as social or outgoing as others. Accordingly, along with teaching our kids not to bully and be accepting, we have to teach kids who may not "fit in" to deal with who they are. If that can't happen kids will continue to view the shootings they see on TV as an acceptable response to their situation.