The Herd - Rating Dak

[BourbonBalz]

LOL...….you seem like a really angry guy. Im Dak's biggest fan on here in case you haven't noticed.

I stand by my statement. At this time Garrap is the more seasoned and better QB. Not saying its by much. I expect Dak to get there, but as far as passing the ball, he isn't there yet.

But I love your enthusiasm for Dak. Keep it up. Just point it at the Dak haters on here. Were on the same team buddy.

By the way, I’m not angry at all. My issue with your stance is that you seem to be stating your opinion regarding Dak and JG as “fact”. It’s not. You, like everyone else, are entitled to your opinion, but that’s all it is. At this point in their respective careers, Dak has accomplished much more than JG and frankly, it isn’t even close. That is a fact. I don’t know which one of the two will end up having the best career, but at this point I know which one has had the best so far. The rest is simply wait and see.

 

[BourbonBalz]

They don't. See Luck and Cam.

Hey, I like Dak, dude has a great pocket presence and poise, not to mention a great attitude and work ethic. He quite simply has some things to correct. We're now building the team to suit him, we'll see!!!

The only QB that has had as good of a rookie season as Dak is Marino. Dak didn’t have as good of a second season primarily due to Oline issues and the Elliott suspension. Considering the team is built to be a run first offense, those two problems were going to result in a drop off in production and efficiency. It’s just common sense. In addition, the coaching staff was too inept to make any adjustments to offset those problems. Dak had a very good first half of the season before all of the issuesvreared their head. It’s also pretty obvious the whole Elliott saga weighed heavily on the team the entire season.

 

[CowboyRoy]

By the way, I’m not angry at all. My issue with your stance is that you seem to be stating your opinion regarding Dak and JG as “fact”. It’s not. You, like everyone else, are entitled to your opinion, but that’s all it is. At this point in their respective careers, Dak has accomplished much more than JG and frankly, it isn’t even close. That is a fact. I don’t know which one of the two will end up having the best career, but at this point I know which one has had the best so far. The rest is simply wait and see.

Ive said over and over again that this is my opinion. If you cant handle it then don't. Yep Dak has played in more games. That's not how I am measuring this. My eye test tells me that Garrapp is a more seasoned, further along QB and has reached the beginning of the prime of his career. YOu want to disagree, by all means go ahead. We saw what Dak did with little around him. Garrapp won 5 games in a row last year with a team that hadn't won a game. And this after being traded In the middle of the season and not having much time to get accustomed to the system or the players around him. To me that is very impressive.

Dak isn't there yet with the passing part of his game. I have all the confidence he will. But when one QB is learning from Bellicheck and Brady in the best system in football and the other is learning from Garrett and Wade Wilson in a system tailored for the last QB, the learning curve takes longer.

 

[PAPPYDOG]

This is exactly why I wanted Dallas to continue the search for a QB. I like the fact they took a flier in the kid White!

The FO knows what they have in Dak hence the White pick. They know Dak just might be another Tim Tebow out there simply incapable of performing up to par as a NFL QB.
Dak Prescott is NOT Franchise QB material and this apply's for any NFL team he might be playing for.
It would be a dream scenario for us a 4th round supplement pick to become our new Tom Brady story( Jerry selling it hard baby) but guys look at the video there's no way all his inept flaws under center can be trained or corrected at this point!

Next please!

 

[zerofill]

The FO knows what they have in Dak hence the White pick. They know Dak just might be another Tim Tebow out there simply incapable of performing up to par as a NFL QB.
Dak Prescott is NOT Franchise QB material and this apply's for any NFL team he might be playing for.
It would be a dream scenario for us a 4th round supplement pick to become our new Tom Brady story( Jerry selling it hard baby) but guys look at the video there's no way all his inept flaws under center can be trained or corrected at this point!

Next please!

Well, we have to remember... you are right the FO knows. But, they are hoping he becomes great. He is popular, he is getting endorsements, he is a good looking kid that the women love, and he is a pretty good kid all together.
So Jerry wants Dallas to remain the most valuable franchise. Things like that, help his goal. So they are going to give him every possible chance to be "That Guy" at the end of the day.

Many of us don't think he is "That Guy" though. But, everything is being made Dak friendly. The Dak super fans, wanted Witten gone, and Dez gone. They got their wish. But Zeke being gone, and Tyron being gone, were not the reasons for that total offensive collapse last year. Morris was a perfectly capable substitute for Zeke. But, I still felt bad for the kid in the Atlanta game. But, you still have to make things happen. But, the same people that make Dak sound like Brady, use the excuse that it was his second year. He couldn't deal with Clayborn in that game. You know what... I will give them that.. it was his second year. I can understand that game. I don't understand the 50% of less then 200 yards passing, and I don't understand 3 straight games without a TD...

But comparing Dak to Jimmy G... people are going to be disappointed. Because Jimmy G shows every intangible imaginable as a QB. This guy was made to play QB. In my opinion, you won't even be able to compare the two. Because I fully expect is Jimmy G stays healthy, he is the future Brady, Brees, Rodgers of the NFL. You can see it when you watch him play... I don't need to look at stats to prove my point either. Because like I said earlier... stats mean nothing. He is the perfect hybrid of a pocket passer, yet can extend plays, and instantly become a gunslinger if necessary. He is going to make the 49ers a contender again on his own. I don't think the 9ers will waste him like we did Romo either.

Do I want Dak to succeed? Yes... like I said... He is a good face for the Cowboys. He seems to be a good kid, and should be able to stay out of trouble. But, man he has a lot to overcome with mechanics, and reads. I mean, he has serious work to do to be a real franchise QB. Not a franchise QB, just because Jerry wants to keep the Cowboys with a popular player at the helm. I mean a real franchise QB.

As far as I am concerned... this is his 3rd year as the starter. This is the make it or break it year for Dak. He either proves he can backup what he has been saying lately, or someone else takes that position.

 

[PAPPYDOG]

Well, we have to remember... you are right the FO knows. But, they are hoping he becomes great. He is popular, he is getting endorsements, he is a good looking kid that the women love, and he is a pretty good kid all together.
So Jerry wants Dallas to remain the most valuable franchise. Things like that, help his goal. So they are going to give him every possible chance to be "That Guy" at the end of the day.

Many of us don't think he is "That Guy" though. But, everything is being made Dak friendly. The Dak super fans, wanted Witten gone, and Dez gone. They got their wish. But Zeke being gone, and Tyron being gone, were not the reasons for that total offensive collapse last year. Morris was a perfectly capable substitute for Zeke. But, I still felt bad for the kid in the Atlanta game. But, you still have to make things happen. But, the same people that make Dak sound like Brady, use the excuse that it was his second year. He couldn't deal with Clayborn in that game. You know what... I will give them that.. it was his second year. I can understand that game. I don't understand the 50% of less then 200 yards passing, and I don't understand 3 straight games without a TD...

But comparing Dak to Jimmy G... people are going to be disappointed. Because Jimmy G shows every intangible imaginable as a QB. This guy was made to play QB. In my opinion, you won't even be able to compare the two. Because I fully expect is Jimmy G stays healthy, he is the future Brady, Brees, Rodgers of the NFL. You can see it when you watch him play... I don't need to look at stats to prove my point either. Because like I said earlier... stats mean nothing. He is the perfect hybrid of a pocket passer, yet can extend plays, and instantly become a gunslinger if necessary. He is going to make the 49ers a contender again on his own. I don't think the 9ers will waste him like we did Romo either.

Do I want Dak to succeed? Yes... like I said... He is a good face for the Cowboys. He seems to be a good kid, and should be able to stay out of trouble. But, man he has a lot to overcome with mechanics, and reads. I mean, he has serious work to do to be a real franchise QB. Not a franchise QB, just because Jerry wants to keep the Cowboys with a popular player at the helm. I mean a real franchise QB.

As far as I am concerned... this is his 3rd year as the starter. This is the make it or break it year for Dak. He either proves he can backup what he has been saying lately, or someone else takes that position.

All Cowboy Fans should want Dak to succeed this is a gimme and that includes yours truly as his success translates into Cowboy Glory!
The QB position is the best Paid position for a reason do we really need to go over the reasons why here?
The more i watch of Dak the more I see a Tim Tebow type QB who pretty much survives out there with the help of the tools around him.
This coming season will be the END of Dak Prescott era as one thing is constant for all players and seasons without any exceptions....Produce or Die in the NFL!

 

[gjkoeppen]

Like I mentioned before... stats aren't everything, or even the biggest part of if a player is good or not. Because you can't accurately compare players using stats, without each situation, every play, every player, being the same other then the QB in this instance. You can get an idea, but saying numbers do not lie... is a lie...

I am not even saying that, as it pertains to Dak... I am saying that, because stats are not the tell all.

Alex Smith - personally I like him... most people don't. But if you are going by stats... he is a great QB. People knock him for the same reasons many of us knock Dak... so many short passes. No long game... But he is actually accurate on long passes as well, but he protects the ball.

Romo - Best QB Dallas ever had, if numbers don't lie in stats.

Eli - I think we all agree he is not a top tier QB, and never was... but he has 2 rings, and 2 Super Bowl MVPs, and 4 Pro Bowls.

Drew Brees - He is a phenom. I personally think he is better then Brady, Rodgers, and Big Ben.

Matt Ryan - Many people don't think he is great. Personally I do... But if stats don't lie, then he is a great QB, 4 Pro Bowls, NFL MVP, etc...

But no matter how you look at it... It is impossible to accurately compare players by stats. You can say a player is good based on their stats... But you can't say Brees really is better then Brady or Vice Versa... Unless you had a way to put them on the field with the same players, and the same exact situations, the same exact plays, the same exact wind speed, the same exact temperature, etc...

Been a programmer all my life... We also do a ton of online marketing looking at metrics like EPC, in the way we would use it would be earnings per click. Basically if 50 people click on a link and 1 person buys, I can get my EPC from that.

The number is meaningless, yet people use it constantly... The reason it is meaningless with what I do is because there are all types of traffic making up that EPC.

Organic traffic (people found, and clicked by visiting a site that was ranking that we owned)
Social Media traffic (paid ads on Facebook for example)
SEM - which is search engine marketing... buying ads on Google AdWords for example...

Now all of those traffic sources are hitting things and making a EPC that is skewed... Because you have different types of traffic, different types of ads, different methods of getting to the point of conversion. So it is basically a worthless number. The only thing it really tells me, is if something is actually worth pursuing. Basically is it worth it to keep selling it. If we were looking for a product to promote for example as an affiliate, we might look at it to determine if it at least sells. But, I wouldn't base my ad spend on the EPC number. because it is always skewed...

Same with stats in the NFL when comparing players.

I agree with some of what you said but players, not just QB's and not just in football players all sports are ranked all of the time and the people doing the ranking have to have a starting point and something they base a large portion of their ranking on and whether or not you agree with it, stats are that base and major point they use to make their rankings. As an example Prescott's rookie year he didn't throw down field a lot but had a fairly good completion percentage on the long ball but when when it came time to vote on offensive rookie of the year he got it and I don't think it was held against him that he didn't throw down field a lot like some people here do. Yes part of that award was based on the Cowboys success that year and the Cowboys actually had 2 players that could have gotten that award. The point here is if Prescott's stats weren't what they were then Elliott would have gotten that award. Most believe that QB is the hardest position to play and Prescott setting a NFL record for the fewest picks by a rookie QB while playing all 16 games helped cement that award for him. That showed he was careful with the ball yet the Cowboys still won 13 games.
.

 

[gjkoeppen]

Yeah I did intentionally not mention that!!!
That season was an anomally and Im going by the most current stats. People were comparing Dak and Wentz and I was just posting the latest info for everyone to make their own decision. I dont see them even at all. But I dont go by the stats I go by the play I see on the field. You talk about the other players around them need to do their job and I agree! I definitely put some blame on the coaches and players but my problem with Dak is there is always going to be times where a QB is being chased or off balance and under pressure and he has to make the right decision and throw. Dak is limited because he cant be falling away or off balance because as we have seen his ball floats or ends up in the turf. Even when Dak has a clean pocket and 6 sec to throw while most QBs only have 4 sec I cant even remember the last time I saw a throw from Dak that I said to myself WOW that was a heck of a throw.

I see so when Rodgers had a down year for him his 3rd season starting and other QB's, some that now have been backup QB's for several years, had better a season than Rodgers then going by your "latest info" that year you would have declared Rodgers no good even though the following years he had his usual seasons. The point here is both QB's have 2 seasons under their belts and Prescott clearly had the better year when they were rookies and Wentz had a better 2nd season but to say that Wentz is the better QB now with limited info is ridiculous. A very large part of your thinkng is the team the eagles won a super bowl and if you use that has your big comparison then Trent Dilfer was a better QB than Prescott but I'll bet you would be hard pressed to find a lot that will agree with that.
.

 

[blindzebra]

Isnt it miraculous that Dak had none of these issues the first 24 games of his career. How is it possible for you people NOT to understand what happened to the team in game #25 that changed everything. Its the most laughably obvious set of circumstances you could possibly have.

Regress? LOL Wow its like you people didn't even watch the games.

 

[HungryLion]

You didn't answer my question... How many rookie starting QBs in the history of the league fell into such a great position?

Give me at least one.

And wins and losses don't count for Dak because he's the ultimate non factor (game is not on his shoulders , won't carry the team)

He didn't "take over" anything , he simply rode the bus and the staff tried to hide him all season.
It's like saying Tyrone Crawford is better than Myles Garrett because he "won" more games ... Pure idiocy.

Ben Roethlisberger started out in a pretty sweet situation.

 

[Super_Kazuya]

Gather round, grandchildren... grandpa is going to tell you about the strange Cowboys regular season where the NFL scheduled the Cowboys to play the Falcons eight weeks in a row (or at least that’s what a Dak slobberer told me).

 

[TwoDeep3]

I have to wonder how many of the people assaulting Dak in this thread were Romo fanatics and some of this is a hold over of their angst over the way Romo left?

I see flaws in Dak's game, but I also saw the offensive line becoming sketchy. About all I can do as a fan is hope for the best.

 

[Aviano90]

I have to wonder how many of the people assaulting Dak in this thread were Romo fanatics and some of this is a hold over of their angst over the way Romo left?

I see flaws in Dak's game, but I also saw the offensive line becoming sketchy. About all I can do as a fan is hope for the best.

Most, if not all.

 

[mcmvp]

The only QB that has had as good of a rookie season as Dak is Marino. Dak didn’t have as good of a second season primarily due to Oline issues and the Elliott suspension. Considering the team is built to be a run first offense, those two problems were going to result in a drop off in production and efficiency. It’s just common sense. In addition, the coaching staff was too inept to make any adjustments to offset those problems. Dak had a very good first half of the season before all of the issuesvreared their head. It’s also pretty obvious the whole Elliott saga weighed heavily on the team the entire season.

Marino’s rookie season was way better. You simply can’t compare the eras they played in. It’s so much easier to put up passing numbers in 2016 compared to over a quarter century ago. Marino also did not have nearly the supporting cast as a rook.

 

[mcmvp]

Ben Roethlisberger started out in a pretty sweet situation.

He did...most don’t

 

[HungryLion]

Marino’s rookie season was way better. You simply can’t compare the eras they played in. It’s so much easier to put up passing numbers in 2016 compared to over a quarter century ago. Marino also did not have nearly the supporting cast as a rook.

No doubt about it. Of course Marino ended up being one of the, if not the best ever. So if Dak can even be 80% of that we have something.

Passing numbers are much easier to gain nowadays, that being said I don’t think that alone is reason enough for people to poo-poo Dak’s rookie year.

Did he have a good supporting cast? Yes he did. But he did what good QB’s should do with a good supporting cast- play at a pro bowl level.

There are a lot of posters on this board that dismiss Dak’s play entirely because of his supporting cast. However, their opinions don’t seem to account for the fact That 1. Most good QB’s also need a good supporting cast to be successfully, football is a team sport.

Is Montana any less a QB because he had Rice? Is Aikman less of a QB because he had Irvin and Emmitt? Not saying Dak is as good as those QB’s but I mean come on. Name me the QB who lights it up and wins a lot of games with no help........

Football is the ultimate team sport.

There have been a ton of QB’s who had good supporting casts, and played like dog crap.....

 

[PA Cowboy Fan]

No doubt about it. Of course Marino ended up being one of the, if not the best ever. So if Dak can even be 80% of that we have something.

Passing numbers are much easier to gain nowadays, that being said I don’t think that alone is reason enough for people to poo-poo Dak’s rookie year.

Did he have a good supporting cast? Yes he did. But he did what good QB’s should do with a good supporting cast- play at a pro bowl level.

There are a lot of posters on this board that dismiss Dak’s play entirely because of his supporting cast. However, their opinions don’t seem to account for the fact That 1. Most good QB’s also need a good supporting cast to be successfully, football is a team sport.

Is Montana any less a QB because he had Rice? Is Aikman less of a QB because he had Irvin and Emmitt? Not saying Dak is as good as those QB’s but I mean come on. Name me the QB who lights it up and wins a lot of games with no help........

Football is the ultimate team sport.

Some think Aikman is. lol

 

[G2]

I have to wonder how many of the people assaulting Dak in this thread were Romo fanatics and some of this is a hold over of their angst over the way Romo left?

I see flaws in Dak's game, but I also saw the offensive line becoming sketchy. About all I can do as a fan is hope for the best.

All? Also, the same ones who defended Dez for everything.

 

[G2]

Gather round, grandchildren... grandpa is going to tell you about the strange Cowboys regular season where the NFL scheduled the Cowboys to play the Falcons eight weeks in a row (or at least that’s what a Dak slobberer told me).

It would take a rather large clothes hanger to get get your head out of your backside. It's in there deep.

 

[Hadenough]

If wanting to put Dak in the unemployment line is how you show your love then brother you cold.

This is nothing personal with Dak! It's about building the best team the Cowboys can build. I'm not sure Dak is the guy because of what I see in the ball he throws.