Interesting Emmitt Smith Fact

[Aviano90]

I didn't Google anything, and you have no idea what you are talking about.

The NFL has had official scorers for decades, and they have been tracking everything in Gamebooks for decades. Like I said, all of the information exists. It's just not available in a public database.

Oh, look at this. It's the Gamebook from Emmitt Smith's very first NFL game in 1990, which you claim doesn't exist.

And here's the play-by-play for Emmitt's first NFL carry, which you claim doesn't exist.

And look at that, it's the Gamebook from Barry Sanders' very first NFL game in 1989, which you claim doesn't exist.

And it even has the play-by-play from his first NFL series, complete with some hilarious commentary. But wait, this doesn't exist either, right?

Anything else you'd like to claim doesn't exist?

And there is the Mortal Kombat “Finish Him” post. Nice job

 

[AdamJT13]

This is highly anecdotal. Sanders carried the ball more than all but 6 men who ever lived, in only 10 seasons. He was not “often replaced” for anything. And Emmitt was replaced at times in short yardage in his career. People remember what they want to remember.

Including you. Sanders was often replaced by Derrick Moore in goal-line situations in 1993 and 1994. (That was Wayne Fontes' bright idea.)

In those seasons, Sanders never had a touchdown run shorter than 4 yards. Moore, his little-used backup, had six 1-yard TD runs. I wonder how that could have happened?

In 1994, the Lions ran the ball a total of seven times from inside the opponent's 2-yard line. Barry Sanders -- who carried the ball 331 times that season to a combined 28 for his backups -- got the ball on exactly ZERO of those runs. I wonder how that could have happened?

Selective memory, indeed.

 

[Super_Kazuya]

Including you. Sanders was often replaced by Derrick Moore in goal-line situations in 1993 and 1994. (That was Wayne Fontes' bright idea.)

In those seasons, Sanders never had a touchdown run shorter than 4 yards. Moore, his little-used backup, had six 1-yard TD runs. I wonder how that could have happened?

In 1994, the Lions ran the ball a total of seven times from inside the opponent's 2-yard line. Barry Sanders -- who carried the ball 331 times that season to a combined 28 for his backups -- got the ball on exactly ZERO of those runs. I wonder how that could have happened?

Selective memory, indeed.

You are artificially limiting it to goal line runs. Since you are living on pro football reference tonight, why don’t you expand it to anywhere on the field and for Sanders entire career?

 

[AdamJT13]

Again, you didn’t know what a gamebook was until yesterday.

You obviously know nothing about me and couldn't be more incorrect.

Or maybe you think this post from 10 years ago doesn't exist, either --

More on new WR Todd Lowber. Believe it or not...

I said the data doesn’t exist, and it doesn’t. There is no repository.

There certainly is a repository. The problem Football Outsiders has is that the farther it goes back, the more incomplete it is.

It can’t be collected in an official manner by anyone, not even the NFL.

If the NFL wanted to, it could.

You seem to be saying that I don’t think the games were played, like their figments of the imagination or something. Of course stuff happened in the game, there’s data that could have been collected. But it wasn’t.

So you still think there's no play-by-play of NFL games from before 1994? That there's no way to see, for example, exactly how many yards Emmitt gained on each of his 23 carries for 121 yards against the Buccaneers as a rookie? And now way to see, for example, exactly how many yards Barry Sanders gained (or lost) on each of his 20 carries for 72 yards against the Saints in 1989? You think that data was never collected? That it doesn't exist?

 

[AdamJT13]

You are artificially limiting it to goal line runs. Since you are living on pro football reference tonight, why don’t you expand it to anywhere on the field and for Sanders entire career?

I'm not artificially limiting anything. Those were the situations when Sanders was replaced, and those were the years when he was replaced in those situations.

To claim that it never happened is no more accurate than claiming that it happened all of the time.

 

[T-RO]

You are artificially limiting it to goal line runs. Since you are living on pro football reference tonight, why don’t you expand it to anywhere on the field and for Sanders entire career?

SuperK,

Adam has earned a truck load of respect around here for many, many years. Never once have I seen him incorrect on facts or figures. And it’s been widely speculated that he has insider connections...if he hasn’t himself worked inside the game. I suggest you find an excuse to make a retreat on this battle.

 

[Super_Kazuya]

I'm not artificially limiting anything. Those were the situations when Sanders was replaced, and those were the years when he was replaced in those situations.

To claim that it never happened is no more accurate than claiming that it happened all of the time.

It doesn't matter... I misread the OP. He was only talking about goal line situations. I was in error, your response was fine.
It just means ultimately that it's a weak argument though. We know from 94 on that Emmitt had 62 TDs of less than 3 yards (in theory 4 yard carries would also lower his YPC, but let's omit those). Removing those from his ledger only raises his YPC a paltry .05 (not half a yard, .05), still leaving a wide gulf between him and Sanders. More importantly, it would remove 62 TDs (and 100 yards, less important) hugely damaging one of the few talking points Emmitt does have over Sanders.

 

[Super_Kazuya]

SuperK,

Adam has earned a truck load of respect around here for many, many years. Never once have I seen him incorrect on facts or figures. And it’s been widely speculated that he has insider connections...if he hasn’t himself worked inside the game. I suggest you find an excuse to make a retreat on this battle.

I know who he is.. he's still clueless. No matter how long he gets down on his knees and prays, that data won't exist. There are tons of missing or illegible gamebooks and no way to reproduce the information. The NFL didn't have the gamebooks The teams did. In ten years, that data still won't be available. I suspect he is still bumping the thread out of sheer stubbornness, so maybe if I just respond to you he will let it die.

 

[AdamJT13]

I know who he is.

Obviously not.

he's still clueless.

I have posted plenty of proof that you're wrong, as everyone but you can clearly see.

There are tons of missing or illegible gamebooks and no way to reproduce the information.

Like I said, that depends on how far you want to go back. For the purpose of this thread (re: Emmitt Smith and Barry Sanders), all of the data certainly does exist. We don't need to go back to the 1970s for that.

 

[Super_Kazuya]

Obviously not.



I have posted plenty of proof that you're wrong, as everyone but you can clearly see.




Like I said, that depends on how far you want to go back. For the purpose of this thread (re: Emmitt Smith and Barry Sanders), all of the data certainly does exist. We don't need to go back to the 1970s for that.

All you’ve posted is apparently a logical fallacy and a falsehood. And yes, posting a couple of gamebooks is surely proof that all of the data exists. Perfectly logical. But hey maybe by the time you’re done you will have single handedly dug up all of the data yourself.

 

[T-RO]

Removing those from his ledger only raises his YPC a paltry .05 (not half a yard, .05), still leaving a wide gulf between him and Sanders. More importantly, it would remove 62 TDs (and 100 yards, less important) hugely damaging one of the few talking points Emmitt does have over Sanders.

And then you have to normalize the numbers...make the same adjustment for other running backs on plays inside opponent's 5-yrd line.

 

[Falco78]

SuperK,

Adam has earned a truck load of respect around here for many, many years. Never once have I seen him incorrect on facts or figures. And it’s been widely speculated that he has insider connections...if he hasn’t himself worked inside the game. I suggest you find an excuse to make a retreat on this battle.

I couldn't agree more with this statement. The guy knows what he is talking about! I keep waiting for us to find out he is an ESPN employee but with knowledge

 

[GimmeTheBall!]

Most of us know that running backs don’t age well. Six years of premium productivity is usually the best you can expect.

The one guy we think of as an exception is Emmitt. Damn, the guy played 15 seasons!

Out of curiosity I wanted to work up some numbers. How did Emmitt do after his first six years in comparison to the earlier part of his career?

1990-1995...4.5 yards per carry...First 6 seasons
1996-2004...3.9 yards per carry...Next 9 seasons

Hmmm....

The most interesting thing about poor, dumb Emmitt is that he's a diamond.

 

[T-RO]

The most interesting thing about poor, dumb Emmitt is that he's a diamond.

I say we let that unfortunate Smith comment drift into history. He had a bad day as we all do.

 

[xwalker]

Again, you didn’t know what a gamebook was until yesterday. I know what a gamebook is. I said the data doesn’t exist, and it doesn’t. There is no repository. It can’t be collected in an official manner by anyone, not even the NFL. FO has a relationship with the NFL. If the NFL had the data, they would give it to them. They don’t. That’s why FO has to desperately try to gather it. You seem to be saying that I don’t think the games were played, like their figments of the imagination or something. Of course stuff happened in the game, there’s data that could have been collected. But it wasn’t. You’re clueless.

This is blatant trolling.

You directly call another poster clueless.

I've seen you doing it often.

You call out people and make up absurd counter arguments with absolutely no basis of fact to back up anything you say.

Then you slip in as many nasty remarks as you think will be tolerated by the Mods.

 

[GimmeTheBall!]

I say we let that unfortunate Smith comment drift into history. He had a bad day as we all do.

Well, we can forgive, yes.
But maybe those poor souls who played alongside poor old, dumb Emmitt, heretofore named "trash" by Smith, won't.

 

[Thomas82]

Here's my interesting fact about Emmitt:

He's the only running back in the history of football to ever be his state's all-time leading rusher in high school, school's all-time leading rusher in college, and the NFL's all-time leading rusher.

 

[AdamJT13]

All you’ve posted is apparently a logical fallacy and a falsehood.

Keep living in fantasyland. You've already been proved wrong in every sense, which is why you resorted to weak and obviously incorrect personal attacks.

 

[Super_Kazuya]

Keep living in fantasyland. You've already been proved wrong in every sense, which is why you resorted to weak and obviously incorrect personal attacks.

You have literally been proven wrong in every sense, yet you keep coming back to embarrass yourself. Keep pretending you know what a gamebook is, it's funny.

 

[AdamJT13]

You have literally been proven wrong in every sense, yet you keep coming back to embarrass yourself.

Seriously, you are in denial. I've posted evidence right here in this thread to prove you wrong. Everyone else has seen it and everyone else knows it. You have posted no evidence at all, let alone anything that could possibly refute anything I've said.

Keep pretending you know what a gamebook is, it's funny

So, I was posting about Gamebooks on this very forum a decade ago (I linked to one of my posts from 2008), and I didn't even know what they were? What a joke.