Any OL gurus in the house?

[xwalker]

Callahan long gone and Alexander shown the door
and with Houck and Colombo now on task
is zone blocking gone?

Probably the scheme that Zack Martin wants to use...

Columbo is the new OL coach.

Houck is a consultant.

Columbo played in a man scheme in Dallas but he has been with the Cowboys starting in the 2014 season as a non-player. He was an assistant scout for a year and then an assistant coach. They've been more of a Zone scheme in that time frame but they used both Zone and Man since Callahan implemented the Zone scheme in 2012.

Keep in mind that Zone/Man are run blocking concepts. There are not separate schemes for pass blocking. The variations from coach to coach in pass blocking is more about individual techniques.

Cowboys OL coaches in the Jerry era:
Tony Wise 1989-2002
Hudson Houck 1993-2001
Frank Verducci 2002
Don't Remember 2003-2004
Tony Sparano 2005-2007
Hudson Houck 2008-2011
Bill Callahan 2012-2014
Frank Pollack 2015-2017
Paul Alexander 2018 (7 games)
Marc Columbo 2018

My rankings:
Callahan
Wise
Sparano
Pollack
Don't Remember
Verducci
.
Houck
.
.
.
Alexander

 

[ConstantReboot]

And the reason we've run well since then is what?

2014 - 2354 rushing yards
2015 - 1890 yards with no QB to threaten the D
2016 - 2396 yards
2017 - 2170 yards - with our #1 suspended 6 games

Now where is the huge difference?

2015 - You seriously giving kudos to Garrett/Linehan for a failed season?
2016 - Kudos to the coaches. They struck gold with Zeke and Dak. That's more on the players doing their thing rather than following a failed gameplan.
2017 - So what? Nothing more than stats that's typical of a run dominated offense.
2018 - Cowboys are sucking it. Bad playcalling and a conservative gameplan has us at 3-4. Shows how bad our coaching really is if the talent isn't there.

Frankly, who cares about the past. Callahan's offense is better than our this year with a less than talented oline. We fired our oline coach. Which goes to show that were having problems with the coaching and not the players.

 

[Number1]

Probably the scheme that Zack Martin wants to use... Keep in mind that Zone/Man are run blocking concepts.

I do understand these are run schemes ... I like man blocking with a timing O for reasons too complex to cover tonight ...

why do you think Martin would prefer Man blocking?

also Williams ain't exactly a prototype road grading LG like Allen or Leary, he can move but head man blocking - do you think can he hang?

 

[waving monkey]

Callahan was kicked out by Garrett, he didn't want any 'threats' for the HC job .

LOL

 

[BAT]

And the reason we've run well since then is what?

2014 - 2354 rushing yards
2015 - 1890 yards with no QB to threaten the D
2016 - 2396 yards
2017 - 2170 yards - with our #1 suspended 6 games

Now where is the huge difference?

Supposed to be the best OL in the NFL since 2014, remember. Need talent to maximize scheme.

 

[xwalker]

I do understand these are run schemes ... I like man blocking with a timing O for reasons too complex to cover tonight ...

why do you think Martin would prefer Man blocking?

also Williams ain't exactly a prototype road grading LG like Allen or Leary, he can move but head man blocking - do you think can he hang?

No, I think Martin prefers more Zone blocking.

Also, even with the specific man or zone (especially man) there are significant variations between coaches/schemes.

Simplistic Example:

Man Blocking outside run to the strong side.

Between the 3 players play-side OG, OT and TE, two different coaches/schemes will have different assignments on which defenders are blocked by which of these 3 blockers.

Regardless, one of the blockers will have a difficult reach block (blocking a defender that is aligned outside of the blocker).

One option makes it most likely that DE is blocked and the hit/miss block is on the LB. With this option the RB is likely to get at least a yard or two even if the block on the LB is not made.

Another option makes the block on the DE more difficult but if that block is made, the run likely gains more yards; however, if that block is missed then negative yardage is strong possibility.

My observation is that Alexander made the assignments trying to gain big yardage; whereas, when Callahan used man-blocking, the assignments were usually designed to avoid lost yardage.

Most team now use a combination of man/zone. Retired OL coach Alex Gibbs was one of the few that used almost 100% Zone blocking.

Side Note: The zone scheme basically made the tub of lard type DTs obsolete. The super big DTs that play now are also super athletic (i.e. Snacks Harrison, Dontari Poe). Back in the day there were DTs like Gilbert Brown that could not be moved even by the best double-team blocking but against zone blocking that type of DT couldn't move down the line quickly and ended up getting in the way of other defenders that were trying to flow down the line (Brown was rumored to have been close to 400 pounds some seasons).

When Bill Callahan was here, the Cowboys were masters of both zone and man blocking. Callahan was also a master of hiding the weak-links on the OL. He specifically scheme to make Doug Free an OK run blocker. Free usually either just had to wall-off the DE on inside runs or Free was assigned a LB and they used other methods to block big DEs (OG or 2 TEs double-team blocking the DE were a couple of methods he used). Callahan was so good that fans/announcers started claiming Free was an excellent run blocker. In reality, Free was very weak, especially in the upper body and would have been a complete failure in the scheme in which Erik Williams was a super start RT (EW just over-powered whoever lined up in front of him. No scheming was needed).

 

[CalPolyTechnique]

Yes, I'm here. What can I help you with?

 

[Number1]

I've never forgiven this franchise for the Doug Free era ... nearly killed Romo

 

[rnr_honeybadger]

can we talk Xs and Os rather than blame game?

Blame game? I thought everything was Daks fault.

 

[GenoT]

I believe(?) La’el Collins has had more penalties (holding/offsides) so far this season than in all of last year.

Betting the change back to zone-blocking is gonna nip that in the bud.

 

[America's Cowboy]

Regardless of scheme, this Oline needs to start firing out instead of standing up. The Law of Leverage dictates so. They also need to lose some weight, get in better shape and become more nimble on their feet.

Does anyone know if this Oline even gets made to hit & push a 7 man sled? How about rapid steps on blocks or bleachers?

 

[Number1]

Blame game? I thought everything was Daks fault.

not me ... I have no issue with Dak other than he should deep twice as often

 

[WarDaddy]

No, I think Martin prefers more Zone blocking.

Also, even with the specific man or zone (especially man) there are significant variations between coaches/schemes.

Simplistic Example:

Man Blocking outside run to the strong side.

Between the 3 players play-side OG, OT and TE, two different coaches/schemes will have different assignments on which defenders are blocked by which of these 3 blockers.

Regardless, one of the blockers will have a difficult reach block (blocking a defender that is aligned outside of the blocker).

One option makes it most likely that DE is blocked and the hit/miss block is on the LB. With this option the RB is likely to get at least a yard or two even if the block on the LB is not made.

Another option makes the block on the DE more difficult but if that block is made, the run likely gains more yards; however, if that block is missed then negative yardage is strong possibility.

My observation is that Alexander made the assignments trying to gain big yardage; whereas, when Callahan used man-blocking, the assignments were usually designed to avoid lost yardage.

Most team now use a combination of man/zone. Retired OL coach Alex Gibbs was one of the few that used almost 100% Zone blocking.

Side Note: The zone scheme basically made the tub of lard type DTs obsolete. The super big DTs that play now are also super athletic (i.e. Snacks Harrison, Dontari Poe). Back in the day there were DTs like Gilbert Brown that could not be moved even by the best double-team blocking but against zone blocking that type of DT couldn't move down the line quickly and ended up getting in the way of other defenders that were trying to flow down the line (Brown was rumored to have been close to 400 pounds some seasons).

When Bill Callahan was here, the Cowboys were masters of both zone and man blocking. Callahan was also a master of hiding the weak-links on the OL. He specifically scheme to make Doug Free an OK run blocker. Free usually either just had to wall-off the DE on inside runs or Free was assigned a LB and they used other methods to block big DEs (OG or 2 TEs double-team blocking the DE were a couple of methods he used). Callahan was so good that fans/announcers started claiming Free was an excellent run blocker. In reality, Free was very weak, especially in the upper body and would have been a complete failure in the scheme in which Erik Williams was a super start RT (EW just over-powered whoever lined up in front of him. No scheming was needed).

This was an excellent post.

 

[Number1]

WarDaddy. does man or zone running blocking work better for play action? ... or is that a different thought all together?

 

[speedkilz88]

FISH: Cowboys O-linemen speak on change: It's 'Back To The Future'

But it is an indictment of how his style (we're talking about the "High Hand/Low Hand'' technique, not any switch to zone-blocking over a power-gap philosophy, as that reported change never actually happened) didn't fit the style that will be retrofitted by Colombo and out-of-retirement aide Hudson Houck.

Surprisingly to me, even young blockers like La'el Collins have a good working knowledge of Houck and his reputation built on a 40-year NFL career. Houck is in the building here at The Star, helping the 3-4 Cowboys ready for a Monday visit from the Titans -- a game that this O-line believes can be put largely on its shoulders, as has happened in the last few seasons when this group it at its best.

 

[Captain-Crash]

heck yeah, we have the worst offensive line in the NFL. Everybody on this team sucks but Dak. That includes the Coaches and Owner. I blame everybody, but the quarterback.

 

[Ring6]

Side note before I comment: Colombo is with an "o" not a "u". Gallup is with a "u" not an "o".

After listening to Travis Fred comments on a recent radio interview, he mentioned communication was shared when asked if Martin is helping Looney. He implied that left tackle is three people away from Martin, which makes it less than ideal if Martin communicates.

He also said that communication issues have been largely fixed in the past couple weeks, and wasn't an issue during the Washington game.

But I wonder how much of Tyron Smith's issues were communication related. Like system things, such as how stunts will be passed or how deep to kick, etc. I have literally no OL knowledge, so I am probably flailing.

 

[OmerV]

The board consensus was that our o-line guru walked and now we are left with band aides....

If anyone thinks Hudson Houk takes a back seat to anyone as an O-Line coach they need to do a little reading up on the subject.

 

[Number1]

No, I think Martin prefers more Zone blocking.

Also, even with the specific man or zone (especially man) there are significant variations between coaches/schemes.

Simplistic Example:

Man Blocking outside run to the strong side.

Between the 3 players play-side OG, OT and TE, two different coaches/schemes will have different assignments on which defenders are blocked by which of these 3 blockers.

Regardless, one of the blockers will have a difficult reach block (blocking a defender that is aligned outside of the blocker).

One option makes it most likely that DE is blocked and the hit/miss block is on the LB. With this option the RB is likely to get at least a yard or two even if the block on the LB is not made.

Another option makes the block on the DE more difficult but if that block is made, the run likely gains more yards; however, if that block is missed then negative yardage is strong possibility.

My observation is that Alexander made the assignments trying to gain big yardage; whereas, when Callahan used man-blocking, the assignments were usually designed to avoid lost yardage.

Most team now use a combination of man/zone. Retired OL coach Alex Gibbs was one of the few that used almost 100% Zone blocking.

Side Note: The zone scheme basically made the tub of lard type DTs obsolete. The super big DTs that play now are also super athletic (i.e. Snacks Harrison, Dontari Poe). Back in the day there were DTs like Gilbert Brown that could not be moved even by the best double-team blocking but against zone blocking that type of DT couldn't move down the line quickly and ended up getting in the way of other defenders that were trying to flow down the line (Brown was rumored to have been close to 400 pounds some seasons).

When Bill Callahan was here, the Cowboys were masters of both zone and man blocking. Callahan was also a master of hiding the weak-links on the OL. He specifically scheme to make Doug Free an OK run blocker. Free usually either just had to wall-off the DE on inside runs or Free was assigned a LB and they used other methods to block big DEs (OG or 2 TEs double-team blocking the DE were a couple of methods he used). Callahan was so good that fans/announcers started claiming Free was an excellent run blocker. In reality, Free was very weak, especially in the upper body and would have been a complete failure in the scheme in which Erik Williams was a super start RT (EW just over-powered whoever lined up in front of him. No scheming was needed).

xwalker,

what do you expect moving forward?

and does play action work better with man / zone?

 

[Pola_pe_a]

Only major difference between zone vs man scheme is man scheme you know your responsibility from the jump. In a zone scheme you have an area and your particular assignment may change mid play,
Ex: C & G combo block playside 3 technique T to backside LB cutoff.
-Man scheme- the G always has to get to the second level for the cutoff
-Zone scheme- most likely the above happens. If the DT slants playside the G may stay on the combo and the C will combo to the LB
Zone schemes allow for mid play changes which helps keep the online in advantageous angles. Zone requires better coordination but it’s not a huge difference.

The biggest issue with the Boys online is not having Fredrick. C is the most important position on the field after QB and you guys have a good one. Losing him throws everything off.
Unit cohesion is often undervalued as well. When you play together you start to learn how your line mates block and work together. Changing the line-up impacts that fairly dramatically as the o-line is the unit which requires the most cohesiveness.