Is Moore everthing that Garrett was supposed to be?

[_sturt_]

I might be able to address the OP question if I knew what Moore is.

I don't.

I don't even know that the people who hired him have confidence that THEY know what he is...

If they did, surely they would have hired him straight-up.

Instead, Moore's the fallback decision that they only made once any other better options evidently dried up.

Besides that, I'm reluctant to presume that the offense this season will be more a reflection on Moore than it will be on Garrett... to the contrary, and until proven otherwise, I'm quite content with the conclusion that Jason Garrett will NOT let his career be decided largely by the inclinations of a 30 year-old who, for all of his alleged intelligence, has never been a play caller before.

This will be Jason's success or his folly. Moore is there to be his right-hand, as far as I see it... important, but not "the" guy. That will be Jason.

 

[TwoDeep3]

There is a saying about writing fiction in prose, and also in screenplays.

Show, don't tell.

More fiction has been rejected because of this dictum than any other outside of the fact the person who authored the piece can't write his name. Must less string words together in a coherent fashion.

As far as Leave It To Beaver Kellen Moore, I see a great deal of telling me by this organization, and very little show me.

Over the years on this CowboysZone site, I have tried to explain away players, coaches, and front office personnel - read Jerry. And in the end each in these categories ultimately shows me and the fanbase their true nature. Nothing I said in my telling you about what I think comes to fruit.

I can explain all the live long day, but in the final analysis only when they do the job - succeed, or fail - do we know the answer to the question that surrounds them and their ability.

I don't give a rat's wrinkle what ESPN says, or Mickey Spags, or Jason Garrett says, or even Jerry and Stephen say. I have seen nothing in the tenure Kellen Moore has been with the Cowboys that suggests he could find his poop exit with a map and a tour guide.

Now he has the offense in his hands, and the success of the team going forward for the near future is being guided by a guy who, by all involved, has been told to us the fans as the answer for all the past offensive woes, and not one blessed thing can be pointed to where he actually showed us his skill set.

So all the speculation on why this guy has the intellect and understanding to assume the chess master of play calling for the Cowboys is more of the same from this organization about their decision making. Decision making that stinks of coupon day at the offensive coordinator store instead of actually bringing in someone who has shown their understanding and success at running an offense and designing game plans where the other team is on their heels all day.

Now marry in the fact that if the offensive line is more of the same as last year and the year before, this franchise has a quarterback that couldn't scare cub scouts away from an ice cream truck when it comes to producing a passing game that backs them up and puts them on their butts.

So sorry for the long post, but Kellen Moore and the Dallas Cowboys......

SHOW ME

Don't tell me it's raining while you're tinkling down my back..

 

[CouchCoach]

Be wary of creating too much expectation on one just because of dissatisfaction with his predecessor. There is a learning curve and in practice it all looks a lot better before the practical application. He will stumble but that does not mean he will fall.

Moore has the advantage because he knows why Linehan failed but just because he's this playbook enthusiast doesn't mean all of those can be executed. I am optimistic about him because I do not believe anyone has more knowledge of this QB's strengths and weaknesses and Moore was a college QB that had to overcome his own, he does understand the position. And he played on a well balanced team under Peterson, he understands how that works.

And even those that are not on board with Prescott as the QB1 should admit that the challenges are not major, he is much closer to very good and he has a good relationship with the man charged with getting him there. These two young men are co-dependent on each other and I don't think Prescott felt that way about Linehan.

There is another element to this relationship, the intangible. Have you ever worked for someone you really liked? I have and I know part of my motivation was doing well for them, I wanted to make them look good so I was extra sharp. If you've looked into Kellen Moore, the man, there's a lot to like about him besides the football smarts. All things being equal, the tie breaker is the human element and I do not underestimate that with either of these two young men.

 

[kskboys]

I might be able to address the OP question if I knew what Moore is.

I don't.

I don't even know that the people who hired him have confidence that THEY know what he is...

If they did, surely they would have hired him straight-up.

Instead, Moore's the fallback decision that they only made once any other better options evidently dried up.

Besides that, I'm reluctant to presume that the offense this season will be more a reflection on Moore than it will be on Garrett... to the contrary, and until proven otherwise, I'm quite content with the conclusion that Jason Garrett will NOT let his career be decided largely by the inclinations of a 30 year-old who, for all of his alleged intelligence, has never been a play caller before.

This will be Jason's success or his folly. Moore is there to be his right-hand, as far as I see it... important, but not "the" guy. That will be Jason.

Possible. However, the other line of thought is that he knows his crapp, and was promoted because he showed in meetings and conversations that he might be the answer.

Like you said, I have no idea.

 

[CouchCoach]

There is a saying about writing fiction in prose, and also in screenplays.

Show, don't tell.

More fiction has been rejected because of this dictum than any other outside of the fact the person who authored the piece can't write his name. Must less string words together in a coherent fashion.

As far as Leave It To Beaver Kellen Moore, I see a great deal of telling me by this organization, and very little show me.

Over the years on this CowboysZone site, I have tried to explain away players, coaches, and front office personnel - read Jerry. And in the end each in these categories ultimately shows me and the fanbase their true nature. Nothing I said in my telling you about what I think comes to fruit.

I can explain all the live long day, but in the final analysis only when they do the job - succeed, or fail - do we know the answer to the question that surrounds them and their ability.

I don't give a rat's wrinkle what ESPN says, or Mickey Spags, or Jason Garrett says, or even Jerry and Stephen say. I have seen nothing in the tenure Kellen Moore has been with the Cowboys that suggests he could find his poop exit with a map and a tour guide.

Now he has the offense in his hands, and the success of the team going forward for the near future is being guided by a guy who, by all involved, has been told to us the fans as the answer for all the past offensive woes, and not one blessed thing can be pointed to where he actually showed us his skill set.

So all the speculation on why this guy has the intellect and understanding to assume the chess master of play calling for the Cowboys is more of the same from this organization about their decision making. Decision making that stinks of coupon day at the offensive coordinator store instead of actually bringing in someone who has shown their understanding and success at running an offense and designing game plans where the other team is on their heels all day.

Now marry in the fact that if the offensive line is more of the same as last year and the year before, this franchise has a quarterback that couldn't scare cub scouts away from an ice cream truck when it comes to producing a passing game that backs them up and puts them on their butts.

So sorry for the long post, but Kellen Moore and the Dallas Cowboys......

SHOW ME

Don't tell me it's raining while you're tinkling down my back..

TwoDeep, the Show Me should be about everything about this team, not just the OC. All Booger does is try to sell the public on everything and some get mad at themselves for buying. He's actually more of a pitchman than a salesman because he lacks the close to make the sale except to those that came to his wagon with money in hand.

There is also a saying in sales, beware the half full glass pitch. Optimists are shaky salespeople because they depend too much on that. The problem with some accepting Moore as how he's being represented is that he's being presented as a guy who has spent his GM career trying to find the positives and not addressing the negatives.

I am going to give Moore a bit of a nod because what I know about him aside from the Jones spin machine. But I would feel better about it if these was something on the line from the GM. Immunity to consequences does not build a lot of confidence. On other teams, the GM could be putting his butt on the line along with the OC in a move like this. On this one, there are no consequences for anyone.

 

[_sturt_]

Possible. However, the other line of thought is that he knows his crapp, and was promoted because he showed in meetings and conversations that he might be the answer.

Like you said, I have no idea.

Not sure where there's any plausible room for disagreement that Moore was at best Plan B, more likely Plan C, and possibly only Plan D. The timeline and logic says if he thought that highly of him, he would have been hired immediately. Clearly, they were doing as Jerry suggested (just before Linehan was let go) that he wanted to do, ie, see who else became available.

It wouldn't be the first time that at a Plan B, C or D ended up being a rousing success. As a Cowboys fan do I hope that? Sure I do.

But if Moore proves to be a rousing success... to my point here... it won't be on the basis of 2019.... the 2019 offense is squarely in Jason Garrett's hands... Moore is the co-pilot who the pilot is going to allow to read some meters and push some buttons and pull some levers.

 

[CouchCoach]

Possible. However, the other line of thought is that he knows his crapp, and was promoted because he showed in meetings and conversations that he might be the answer.

Like you said, I have no idea.

I have an assumption. I think his brain has been picked after the offense sputtered on what he would have done differently. If it is true that they were considering firing Linehan before the 18 season, then it's safe to assume they had no problem talking to his QBC, off the record, about what he would do. I think the decision to fire Linehan was made during the season and not after and they'd been "interviewing" Moore all along.

Just the fact that Yosemite spoke up about him after sharing the sideline with him all season and him being the smartest one on the team gets my attention.

Those discounting Moore seem to be doing so because of who hired him instead of what he might bring and if Booger was the only one selling Moore's smarts, that would be one thing but that's been the story on him from the beginning and it is premature to connect his story to Garrett's.

I was one to initially buy in on Garrett based on Aikman's prophecy, being an Ivy League grad, growing up in a football family and having some damned good coaches to learn from along the way. I also wanted an ex Cowboy to do well and I'd always liked the way he handled himself. I don't know what makes a successful coach but I do one thing that Garrett has been lacking from the beginning, he has little understanding of tactics. If you were in a battle, he's an officer you'd leave back at GQ.

I certainly understand the apprehension and skepticism about Moore but the Joneses have brought in some good coaches but when Booger starts spinning, a lot get away from the web fast. The more he pitches, the less I want to catch.

 

[kskboys]

Not sure where there's any plausible room for disagreement that Moore was at best Plan B, more likely Plan C, and possibly only Plan D. The timeline and logic says if he thought that highly of him, he would have been hired immediately. Clearly, they were doing as Jerry suggested (just before Linehan was let go) that he wanted to do, ie, see who else became available.

It wouldn't be the first time that at a Plan B, C or D ended up being a rousing success. As a Cowboys fan do I hope that? Sure I do.

But if Moore proves to be a rousing success... to my point here... it won't be on the basis of 2019.... the 2019 offense is squarely in Jason Garrett's hands... Moore is the co-pilot who the pilot is going to allow to read some meters and push some buttons and pull some levers.

Actually, I was more entertained by how you said there's no way to know, and then went into detail showing how you thought that there was no way he'd be good!!!!!!!!

There's also no plausible thought that claims he was plan B for sure. We simply don't know. I am afraid it's simply another Jerry reach stretching for his own viability as a football guy, but it might also be a case where this cat was just brimming to be named OC. Simply pointing at the waiting period doesn't necessarily prove anything.

We're all guessing!!!!!

 

[CouchCoach]

Not sure where there's any plausible room for disagreement that Moore was at best Plan B, more likely Plan C, and possibly only Plan D. The timeline and logic says if he thought that highly of him, he would have been hired immediately. Clearly, they were doing as Jerry suggested (just before Linehan was let go) that he wanted to do, ie, see who else became available.

It wouldn't be the first time that at a Plan B, C or D ended up being a rousing success. As a Cowboys fan do I hope that? Sure I do.

But if Moore proves to be a rousing success... to my point here... it won't be on the basis of 2019.... the 2019 offense is squarely in Jason Garrett's hands... Moore is the co-pilot who the pilot is going to allow to read some meters and push some buttons and pull some levers.

Since the GM openly invited the OC to end run the HC if he wanted to, I don't think any of us know what the hell is going on.

This entire set up could be just an exercise and Booger's already got a deal made with a guy like Payton. Moore might be auditioning for him as his non play calling OC.

 

[_sturt_]

Actually, I was more entertained by how you said there's no way to know, and then went into detail showing how you thought that there was no way he'd be good!!!!!!!!

But I didn't say there was no way he'd be good.

!!!!!!!!

I said that there wasn't enough confidence to give him the job straight-up, and if the people who hired him don't have that kind of confidence, I'm not one to have a lot of confidence.

And.

I said that sometimes Plans B, C and/or D end up surprising everyone.

And.

I said, if Moore turns out years from now to have been what Garrett was supposed to be (per the OP)... it won't be on the basis of this 2019 performance.

I said all of that, and hopefully entertaining, but also, as it appears by your response, mainly in agreement.

 

[_sturt_]

Since the GM openly invited the OC to end run the HC if he wanted to, I don't think any of us know what the hell is going on.

This entire set up could be just an exercise and Booger's already got a deal made with a guy like Payton. Moore might be auditioning for him as his non play calling OC.

I can't go with that level of cynicism.

You just don't throw away entire seasons like that... you just don't.

I believe common sense says Jerry is all-in on Jason for 2019, and it doesn't really matter about 2020 yet.

 

[visionary]

The more I read about Moore the more I like him. The problem for me hearing about a new young offensive genius was that this was exactly what we heard about Garrett. We all know how that turned out. But Garrett was a smart guy so everyone simply assumed that would translate into being a football genius. Which it definitely hasn't. The more I read about Moore the more it seems that he has what Garrett is lacking. That football intelligence and inquisitive creative mind. Lets just hope they give him autonomy.

http://www.espn.com/blog/dallas-cow...from-a-kid-collecting-playbooks-to-cowboys-oc

He's got the hype down pat
He's also got zero accomplished

So I guess you're right
He's a younger version of Garrett

Maybe he'll become our HC next year once Garrett is promoted to the FO as payment for all his fabulous accomplishments

 

[CouchCoach]

I can't go with that level of cynicism.

You just don't throw away entire seasons like that... you just don't.

I believe common sense says Jerry is all-in on Jason for 2019, and it doesn't really matter about 2020 yet.

That level of cynicism? LMAO, hell, with the people that run this team, I can get a lot deeper level than that.

And who says it's throwing it away? Are they not going to sell out every game? Will the team not be the ratings darling? And the first rumor of a possible rift between Garrett and Moore and even more will tune in.

There are absolutely 0 consequences for Booger in "throwing away an entire season", he did that in 2015.

What is hard to relate to is no consequences for his decisions. He is completely bulletproof and will lose nothing. If he'd made the change at HC this season instead of letting this play out, he would be paying coaches not to coach and there are those that think just because he's a billionaire, that is casual pocket money to him.

 

[kskboys]

But I didn't say there was no way he'd be good.

!!!!!!!!

I said that there wasn't enough confidence to give him the job straight-up, and if the people who hired him don't have that kind of confidence, I'm not one to have a lot of confidence.

And.

I said that sometimes Plans B, C and/or D end up surprising everyone.

And.

I said, if Moore turns out years from now to have been what Garrett was supposed to be (per the OP)... it won't be on the basis of this 2019 performance.

I said all of that, and hopefully entertaining, but also, as it appears by your response, mainly in agreement.

I am in agreement that we have no idea!!!!!!

Let's see, how did you put that? 1) State that none of us know.
2) Go over why he won't be good.

Once again, it was funny to me.

 

[mahoneybill]

I never thought Garrett was anything. QB coach for the Dolphins. Average OC with a good QB in Dallas. He is a non entity anywhere but Dallas.

Would like to have someone ask Romo. How many times did you change the garrett originally called play or play option

Would give us some data to make a decision as to who was really running the offense....

 

[kskboys]

That level of cynicism? LMAO, hell, with the people that run this team, I can get a lot deeper level than that.

And who says it's throwing it away? Are they not going to sell out every game? Will the team not be the ratings darling? And the first rumor of a possible rift between Garrett and Moore and even more will tune in.

There are absolutely 0 consequences for Booger in "throwing away an entire season", he did that in 2015.

What is hard to relate to is no consequences for his decisions. He is completely bulletproof and will lose nothing. If he'd made the change at HC this season instead of letting this play out, he would be paying coaches not to coach and there are those that think just because he's a billionaire, that is casual pocket money to him.

Not intentionally!!!! He gave up a key draft pick for Cassell.

 

[kskboys]

Would like to have someone ask Romo. How many times did you change the garrett originally called play or play option

Would give us some data to make a decision as to who was really running the offense....

Well, we all saw how many times he had to scramble to keep the play alive because the scheme wasn't getting anyone open!!!

 

[CouchCoach]

Would like to have someone ask Romo. How many times did you change the garrett originally called play or play option

Would give us some data to make a decision as to who was really running the offense....

He wouldn't answer that but what % of the time was the play called the one they ran and how many times was it a broken play? Too damned much and that was one of the reasons as part of his last deal, he was in on the game plans on Tuesday's. And why even make that public?

 

[CouchCoach]

Early on in his career, Garrett got played by the DC's through Romo. Romo realized he had to get better at the line because he wasn't getting much help from the sideline. He had to become an on the field OC.

 

[GenoT]

The more I read about Moore the more I like him. The problem for me hearing about a new young offensive genius was that this was exactly what we heard about Garrett. We all know how that turned out. But Garrett was a smart guy so everyone simply assumed that would translate into being a football genius. Which it definitely hasn't. The more I read about Moore the more it seems that he has what Garrett is lacking. That football intelligence and inquisitive creative mind. Lets just hope they give him autonomy.

http://www.espn.com/blog/dallas-cow...from-a-kid-collecting-playbooks-to-cowboys-oc

Lame article, nothing new.

More pertinent; what exactly is Moore — right now, today — as far as being an NFL coach (philosophy, experience, track-record, etc)?

Anointing Moore as his next OC/genius is simply the latest attempt by Jerry to buy time for his vision of himself as “The Coach Whisperer” to eventually bear fruit.

“Be patient, fans; Kellen is young and needs experience in order to succeed.”

The Process Shall Continue Until Morale Improves