What could we get for Lawrence and Cooper?

[armadillooutlaw]

You're not getting a kings ransom for Cooper, and as far as I'm concerned, he is arguably as important as Lawrence - and 99.9% of the time a reciever is no where near as important as a trench player. But I have to make an exception with Cooper. His impact on Dak in the second half of the season literally saved the season. His catch percentage was nearly 70% which is amazing.
Lawrence would have to bring a gigantic haul or his contract demands would have to be stupidly high.
IMO, I think I would give Lawrence around 5/105,
Cooper around 6/100.
Wait on Dak (unless he'll take 20 mil a year).
Let Jones walk.
Extend Jaylon.
Offer Zeke a 3/40 deal.

 

[buybuydandavis]

I could get the discussion if you were talking about Lawrence only - we know the contract negotiations aren't going as well as hoped, and he needs the surgery - but the offense was absolutely floundering until we got Cooper last season. Why would we want to go back to that?

We wouldn't be going back to that, because time marches on.

Last year, the wholesale changes on offense in the offseason should have been expected to induce some floundering early in the season. WRs different. TEs different. Interior oline different, with a backup and a rookie, and losing an All Pro.

Other things changed when Cooper came along. Alexander out. Colombo in. Most people think that improved the oline.

All the changes together with Cooper increased our offensive output 2 whole points a game. Should Cooper get credit for the whole entire 2 points? Maybe just one point? Is that worth 17mil a year?

And did you know we were actually outscored in the final 9 games of the regular season? We got a lot of wins, but not a single one was more than a 1score game.

This year, our JV TEs are a little closer to varsity now. Witten is back. Fredbeard is back. Which is huge. And we lost no one on the oline, unlike last year, where we lost 2. And this year, Linehan is out. I don't know what Boy Genius II will give us, but I've been Anyone But Linehan since early in the season. It's not just that we played poorly on offense, but the scheme just blew.

Like you, I think this makes more sense with Lawrence. He has performance red flags - 5 sacks in the last 14 games. He has injury flags. He costs more, and he's older. I really hope we cash him in. For whatever we can get.

Cooper is good. I like him. If I'm going to spend big money on a WR, Cooper is a good one to spend on . But I don't like spending big money on WRs. For me, Cooper is a strategic cap issue. I don't think you build a championship team by making a WR one of your most costly players. Do you?

 

[buybuydandavis]

COOPER AINT LEAVING, NO WAY, NO HOW. DLaw might be another story. Its up to his agent really. Does he wanna play hardball and raise the bar over and over, or does he want to be realistic? I can see a scenario where he is traded after he signs his tag. As of yet, he hasn't signed it...so no trade can be facilitated.

You're probably right about Cooper not leaving. Still, I wonder what price he would fetch, and whether *I* would be happy to get that price.

That is what I *asked* after all, what we could get for them.

On Lawrence, not having signed the tag, Lawrence can still negotiate with other teams. I doubt anyone will want to give two firsts, but if Lawrence finds a team that makes him happy for money, that team could then start talking to the Cowboys on trade price.

The Cowboys can work a trade from their end as well.

If either side finds a good deal, they can take it to the other.

 

[Falco78]

We would get boned is what we would get

 

[buybuydandavis]

I always hate to see these kinds of threads because after all of these years, I know what's coming. So rather then adding to the pile on, I will just say that perhaps the poster has a point. I don't think you lose Cooper if at all possible but we don't know what the contract expectations might be and we don't know if we will be able to sign him. He has significant value, probably more now then when we traded for him. We could definitely get more for him then what we gave up.

As far as DLaw, his future is on him to me. He's not getting top money IMO. I think the team has already probably made a decision on what they are willing to give up, JMO. Trading him might also be an option, if not a necessity. If he won't play on the Tag, then I don't think there is an option. He has value, moving him saves us a lot of cap and probably allows for signing and resigning some important pieces.

I think it would be wise for all of us to continue to keep our options open.

Thanks for actually answering the question.

You think we could get more for Cooper than we gave up. The thing is, we won a lot more games after the trade than anyone expected, so what we gave up looked like it was going to be a lot more than what we actually gave up.

Ballpark, what are you thinking in term of canonical "draft value"?

On DLaw, I hope both sides are talking to other teams before they blow all their cap. DLaw has a chance to be a big mess, with him squeezing the team with his injury.

 

[buybuydandavis]

You're not getting a kings ransom for Cooper, and as far as I'm concerned, he is arguably as important as Lawrence - and 99.9% of the time a reciever is no where near as important as a trench player. But I have to make an exception with Cooper. His impact on Dak in the second half of the season literally saved the season. His catch percentage was nearly 70% which is amazing.
Lawrence would have to bring a gigantic haul or his contract demands would have to be stupidly high.
IMO, I think I would give Lawrence around 5/105,
Cooper around 6/100.
Wait on Dak (unless he'll take 20 mil a year).
Let Jones walk.
Extend Jaylon.
Offer Zeke a 3/40 deal.

You don't think we could get our pick back on Cooper?

As for Cooper the Amazing, multiple things changed after the bye. All improvement should not be attributed solely to Cooper. And all that improvement totaled to 2 extra points a game. That's not an offensive explosion.

 

[buybuydandavis]

Why on earth would you want to trade cooper?

Because I don't think you build a championship team by sinking big money into WRs.

As far as WRs go, I like Cooper, I just don't want to spend that much at WR. Strategic cap management.

 

[Falco78]

Because I don't think you build a championship team by sinking big money into WRs.

As far as WRs go, I like Cooper, I just don't want to spend that much at WR. Strategic cap management.

Yet we were garbage without him...

 

[Hadenough]

Problem: Lawrence is injured and wants a huge contract, Gregory probably isn't back this year, and now Crawford has issues. DE is looking bad for us, with a great dline draft.

Solution?: Flip Cooper. Trade Lawrence. Use picks for the dline. Free up 40mil per year.

Question: Could we get a 1st out of each? Maybe a 1st plus?

We gave up a first for Cooper. And I think he's exceeded expectations. Shouldn't he be worth more now?

If you thought that giving up a 1st for Cooper was a good deal for us last year, shouldn't it be an even better deal now for the team we trade Cooper to?

And for Lawrence, wasn't he considered in the top few free agents in the league? I'd expect that to net more than Cooper.

*If* you think the Cooper deal was good for us, shouldn't we get two 1sts plus out of trading Cooper and Lawrence?

I'd be happy with that with a dline heavy draft to build with.

If your going to trade Lawrence and Cooper you do it for two first round picks in the 2020 draft. Then you take all three of your first round picks and trade them to move up to the number #1 pick. Draft Trevor Lawrence and he will be on a rookie salary for 4 years and you can take the money you save and pay some hired guns for the Dline. And then you will have a true franchise QB who will make the players around him better. You will also be able to let Zeke walk because Lawrence wont need the best RB in the game to win. He will be fully capable of winning with a mediocre RB. You wont need all pro first round talent across the whole Oline because Lawrence will go through his reads quicker and get rid of the ball.

 

[DuncanIso]

Problem: Lawrence is injured and wants a huge contract, Gregory probably isn't back this year, and now Crawford has issues. DE is looking bad for us, with a great dline draft.

Solution?: Flip Cooper. Trade Lawrence. Use picks for the dline. Free up 40mil per year.

Question: Could we get a 1st out of each? Maybe a 1st plus?

We gave up a first for Cooper. And I think he's exceeded expectations. Shouldn't he be worth more now?

If you thought that giving up a 1st for Cooper was a good deal for us last year, shouldn't it be an even better deal now for the team we trade Cooper to?

And for Lawrence, wasn't he considered in the top few free agents in the league? I'd expect that to net more than Cooper.

*If* you think the Cooper deal was good for us, shouldn't we get two 1sts plus out of trading Cooper and Lawrence?

I'd be happy with that with a dline heavy draft to build with.

We saw what happens without a polished receiver....coop is worth 2 1st round picks to this team.

Tank can be replaced if they reinvest in the DLine more than a couple bottom feeder DT's.

You think Dak is all “fixed” now?

He still can’t throw.

Just saying...

 

[Hadenough]

You think Dak is all “fixed” now?

He still can’t throw.

Just saying...

He has the arm of a high school QB. I feel like Dallas is playing in the NFL with #4 Johnny Moxon!

 

[buybuydandavis]

Absolutely a no on Cooper. This offense needs that piece, not a first round pick. Theoretically it could work. Draft two DL and try to replace Cooper with the 58th pick. But are you willing to take that risk? I'm not. But I do see what you're trying to do here.

I'm not going to even bring up Tank because your idea is based on both, not just one. I have not read through this entire thread but I would imagine you're taking a lot of heat for this because it sounds like madness on the surface. But I think it was well thought out and if it worked would improve the team. And the added bonus would be a bunch of cap space. I just don't think there is much higher than a 50-60% chance that it would. It could end in disaster and I just wouldn't take that chance.

Nice to see someone who understands the cost difference between rookie contracts and top end free agent contracts.

On Cooper, how many championship teams build on a top tier WR contract? I don't think so many. Spending big on WRs is not a path to a championship. I don't think we replace Cooper's talent level with a 58th pick. We play with someone less than Cooper, and have a lot of extra money to spend on more critical positions.

We can't spend oodles on everyone on the offense. Oline. QB. RB. WR. If we're thinking about paying Dak a top QB contract, he needs to show that he's worth it, and can be successful without infinite resources pumped into the offense. This is a good year to let him show that. And Garrett too.

If not Cooper, who do you plan on not on paying on offense?

As far as disasters go, trying to keep Lawrence to play on the tag could be a big stinking mess. How long can he milk that shoulder injury while still getting paid? It's not NFI. And I'm not sold on him for a 60mil guaranteed contract.

 

[buybuydandavis]

the likelihood he signs and plays under the tag is 70-20. THAT SAID, the longer this gets played out without a deal longterm..he could find himself gone.In the end, he will sign the tag and worst case, play under it again.

How long can he jerk the team around with the shoulder injury?

As far as finding himself gone, I assume that's what he wants. He can get bigger money elsewhere.

 

[buybuydandavis]

While the original post is not a good idea we should have already done Coopers deal if we are going to extend him. That way we know what he is expecting and can explore options if he is asking for too much. We can't let Cooper hold us hostage any more than any other player.

Except Cooper can hold us hostage, because the front office knows they will look like morons if they gave up a 1st for a year and a half rental, and that second year at 13mil anyway. He'll only be 25 next year. He can squeeze and squeeze Jerry and make him squeal. He's got all the leverage.

We shouldn't have traded for Cooper without a sign and trade. Without an option. Without something.

We always talked like we saw Cooper as a long term solution. Why should Cooper feel the need to solve that problem for us? In a year, he's a free agent. Cowboys got a lot of guys they might want to be tagging, including Dak. Can't tag everyone.

But Cooper can't hold us hostage if we trade him.

 

[buybuydandavis]

If no one but you was willing to give up a 1 for Cooper while they were in the middle of a playoff hunt, why would they give up a 1 Now with 1 fewer years left on that rookie contract?

We were not in the middle of a playoff hunt. We were trying to avoid collapse. And got lucky in the final 9 games, going 7-2 when we were actually outscored during that run.

But you have a fair question. Why would someone give up a 1 for Cooper?

I think we gave up too much in the first place. But others don't. They think he was worth a 1. And that pick was looking like a mid teens pick at the time.

Certainly Cooper outperformed everyone's expectations. So shouldn't he be worth more now, at least in their estimation? I grant that you're not getting that cheap half year, but you are getting a better player than the expectations for Cooper when he came here. And probably they'd be looking for a sign and trade, so that they're getting that good player for years through his prime, instead of just the year and a half that we got.

 

[HungryLion]

He has the arm of a high school QB. I feel like Dallas is playing in the NFL with #4 Johnny Moxon!

Posts like that make it hard to take you seriously.

 

[buybuydandavis]

If your going to trade Lawrence and Cooper you do it for two first round picks in the 2020 draft. Then you take all three of your first round picks and trade them to move up to the number #1 pick. Draft Trevor Lawrence and he will be on a rookie salary for 4 years and you can take the money you save and pay some hired guns for the Dline. And then you will have a true franchise QB who will make the players around him better. You will also be able to let Zeke walk because Lawrence wont need the best RB in the game to win. He will be fully capable of winning with a mediocre RB. You wont need all pro first round talent across the whole Oline because Lawrence will go through his reads quicker and get rid of the ball.

I haven't looked at Trevor Lawrence, so I'm not sold on the plan of selling out on him.

But with the time discount on future picks usually counted as a full round, I do like the idea of trading for future year picks. I think I'd try to split picks between the years.

And I made a similar point not paying Dak big money unless he can produce without so much resource besides himself pumped into the offense.

 

[noshame]

Trade Zeke for 2 #1s

 

[buybuydandavis]

Yet we were garbage without him...

We weren't that great with Cooper either. We won a lot of close games.

We won the point differential in the first 7 games, and lost it in the last 9.
Our offensive production only increased 2 points a game, and even that meager 2 points shouldn't be entirely attributed to Cooper.

 

[Falco78]

We weren't that great with Cooper either. We won a lot of close games.

We won the point differential in the first 7 games, and lost it in the last 9.
Our offensive production only increased 2 points a game, and even that meager 2 points shouldn't be entirely attributed to Cooper.

It did not exist before and the defense had to focus on him more which is clear from all game tape. I can't agree here at all