What could we get for Lawrence and Cooper?

The Quest for Six

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no way they trade either one, it is the jones boys!
With Collins, Dak, Zeke, Cooper, Jones, and Smith contracts coming due, big contracts too.... they can't pay them all!!

Not saying they would trade Lawrence, but I wouldn't be surprised if they did
 

OmerV

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We wouldn't be going back to that, because time marches on.

Last year, the wholesale changes on offense in the offseason should have been expected to induce some floundering early in the season. WRs different. TEs different. Interior oline different, with a backup and a rookie, and losing an All Pro.

Other things changed when Cooper came along. Alexander out. Colombo in. Most people think that improved the oline.

All the changes together with Cooper increased our offensive output 2 whole points a game. Should Cooper get credit for the whole entire 2 points? Maybe just one point? Is that worth 17mil a year?

And did you know we were actually outscored in the final 9 games of the regular season? We got a lot of wins, but not a single one was more than a 1score game.

This year, our JV TEs are a little closer to varsity now. Witten is back. Fredbeard is back. Which is huge. And we lost no one on the oline, unlike last year, where we lost 2. And this year, Linehan is out. I don't know what Boy Genius II will give us, but I've been Anyone But Linehan since early in the season. It's not just that we played poorly on offense, but the scheme just blew.

Like you, I think this makes more sense with Lawrence. He has performance red flags - 5 sacks in the last 14 games. He has injury flags. He costs more, and he's older. I really hope we cash him in. For whatever we can get.

Cooper is good. I like him. If I'm going to spend big money on a WR, Cooper is a good one to spend on . But I don't like spending big money on WRs. For me, Cooper is a strategic cap issue. I don't think you build a championship team by making a WR one of your most costly players. Do you?

This is a fair discussion, and you are right that there should be improvement in the offense over the first part of last year because of more than just Cooper.

I do, however, think the scoring numbers you mention are misleading, because there aren’t that many games in an NFL season, and obviously are fewer when breaking down to parts of seasons, so the numbers can be skewed by individual games, and may not take consistency into account. For example, the numbers before Cooper came are skewed by one game the Cowboys won 40-7, but that game was not representative of that part of the season. Similarly, the numbers during the successful second part of the season - after Cooper came - are skewed by a 0-23 loss, which was not representative of that part of the season.

I’m interested more in consistency. For example, the Cowboys scored 27+ 6 times last year - once before Cooper, and 5 times after Cooper arrived. Dak had over 200 yards passing 11 times - 3 times before Cooper, and 8 times after Cooper arrived. Dak’s QB ratings were also consistently better after Cooper arrived.

Granted, Cooper can’t take all the credit, but I think it made a big difference in a lot of ways, including team confidence, and Dak’s confidence, to have that receiver that everyone believed in. He wasnt an inexperienced rookie like Gallup, or a well past his prime player like Hurns, or a career underachiever like Austin, or a one dimensional player like Beasley. He gave the receiving group its Zeke Elliott. That boosts everyone’s confidence.

Dak hasn’t had that Drew Pearson/Michael Irvin/Jason Witten player to pair with, have supreme confidence in and build a chemistry with the way past Cowboy QBs have. Cooper is the first, best chance for that.
 
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Whirlwin

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Why would we even begin to contemplate what we could get for Cooper. I can understand Lawrence
 

LACowboysFan1

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Problem: Lawrence is injured and wants a huge contract, Gregory probably isn't back this year, and now Crawford has issues. DE is looking bad for us, with a great dline draft.

Solution?: Flip Cooper. Trade Lawrence. Use picks for the dline. Free up 40mil per year.

Question: Could we get a 1st out of each? Maybe a 1st plus?

We gave up a first for Cooper. And I think he's exceeded expectations. Shouldn't he be worth more now?

If you thought that giving up a 1st for Cooper was a good deal for us last year, shouldn't it be an even better deal now for the team we trade Cooper to?

And for Lawrence, wasn't he considered in the top few free agents in the league? I'd expect that to net more than Cooper.

*If* you think the Cooper deal was good for us, shouldn't we get two 1sts plus out of trading Cooper and Lawrence?

I'd be happy with that with a dline heavy draft to build with.

Oh great, let's start rebuilding once again, nothing like perpetually being an 8-8 or 9-7 team year after year, with an occasional playoff win, eh?
 

TheRomoSexual

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We weren't that great with Cooper either. We won a lot of close games.

We won the point differential in the first 7 games, and lost it in the last 9.
Our offensive production only increased 2 points a game, and even that meager 2 points shouldn't be entirely attributed to Cooper.

Give me a break. Two points a game is a massive difference.
 

DandyDon52

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With Collins, Dak, Zeke, Cooper, Jones, and Smith contracts coming due, big contracts too.... they can't pay them all!!

Not saying they would trade Lawrence, but I wouldn't be surprised if they did
Well anything is possible, but if you look at jones boys history, when do they ever trade a good player away ??
Aside from switzer I cant think of any.
I would shop lee around.
DLawrence, since gregory and irving are gone, they kinda have to keep him ?
 

Verdict

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Except Cooper can hold us hostage, because the front office knows they will look like morons if they gave up a 1st for a year and a half rental, and that second year at 13mil anyway. He'll only be 25 next year. He can squeeze and squeeze Jerry and make him squeal. He's got all the leverage.

We shouldn't have traded for Cooper without a sign and trade. Without an option. Without something.

We always talked like we saw Cooper as a long term solution. Why should Cooper feel the need to solve that problem for us? In a year, he's a free agent. Cowboys got a lot of guys they might want to be tagging, including Dak. Can't tag everyone.

But Cooper can't hold us hostage if we trade him.
The Cowboys can control him with a tag easily to extend his run here one more year. Cooper should at least be worth a first round pick we have to get him here.

But I would have already figured out what it will take to get him signed and either signed him, or have looked to move on in a trade. The Cowboys seem to either be crazy or have some seriously big 'nads.

The Cowboys seem willing to force Tank to play under the tag this year and Cooper next year.
 

Flamma

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Nice to see someone who understands the cost difference between rookie contracts and top end free agent contracts.

On Cooper, how many championship teams build on a top tier WR contract? I don't think so many. Spending big on WRs is not a path to a championship. I don't think we replace Cooper's talent level with a 58th pick. We play with someone less than Cooper, and have a lot of extra money to spend on more critical positions.

We can't spend oodles on everyone on the offense. Oline. QB. RB. WR. If we're thinking about paying Dak a top QB contract, he needs to show that he's worth it, and can be successful without infinite resources pumped into the offense. This is a good year to let him show that. And Garrett too.

If not Cooper, who do you plan on not on paying on offense?

As far as disasters go, trying to keep Lawrence to play on the tag could be a big stinking mess. How long can he milk that shoulder injury while still getting paid? It's not NFI. And I'm not sold on him for a 60mil guaranteed contract.

I'm not saying you're wrong here. Depending on how high the two first rounders are, Dallas could be looking at picking up a nice edge rusher and high end DT. Probably end up with a top 5-10 WR in the draft as well. Theoretically that's better than breaking the bank for Tank and Cooper. That's 4 years of rookie contracts if these guys pan out, and it improves the team. I just think it's risky when we already know what we have in Tank and Cooper, and what we need to do to get over the top. There is a better, less risky path through a few additions in FA and keeping our two guys. Depending on how high the first rounders would be, I like the idea. I'd probably rather do Byron and Tank, just not sure if Byron would fetch a first.
 

chagus

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sideeyechloe.jpg
 

ABQCOWBOY

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Thanks for actually answering the question.

You think we could get more for Cooper than we gave up. The thing is, we won a lot more games after the trade than anyone expected, so what we gave up looked like it was going to be a lot more than what we actually gave up.

Ballpark, what are you thinking in term of canonical "draft value"?

On DLaw, I hope both sides are talking to other teams before they blow all their cap. DLaw has a chance to be a big mess, with him squeezing the team with his injury.

I do think we could get more but, I don't think we will trade him. I think we will sign him. Cooper has shown that he can produce, even with a QB who is young and is not as accurate as NFL teams might view as optimal. That makes him very attractive.

As for DLaw, I think there is a much better chance of seeing a trade there. JMO
 

Rayman70

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answer to the OP is...6-10. That's what it would get us by trading those 2 players. They mean a lot to this team.
 

ABQCOWBOY

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Why would we even begin to contemplate what we could get for Cooper. I can understand Lawrence

I think teams should understand what they have, in terms of player value, at all times. When you don't do this, you often see teams over valuing players and paying them more then they are worth. You hear it all the time, I see it posted on this board over and over, everybody says they want to be like the Pats but then you start talking about how the Pats do things and everybody is like.....

317EFp4MBJL._SL500_AC_SS350_.jpg
 

Blackspider214

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Why do fans always want to trade away proven players who are at the top of the roster for draft picks? Makes zero sense at all.
 

Whirlwin

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I think teams should understand what they have, in terms of player value, at all times. When you don't do this, you often see teams over valuing players and paying them more then they are worth. You hear it all the time, I see it posted on this board over and over, everybody says they want to be like the Pats but then you start talking about how the Pats do things and everybody is like.....

317EFp4MBJL._SL500_AC_SS350_.jpg
I have been saying it for years everybody wants to mimic the great Bill Belichick but they don't want to do the Dirty Work. Without a defensive tackle pressure up the middle I don't care how good the edge is. I have no issues getting rid of Lawrence. Trade him when the value is there. That is the beauty of the Patriots they know when to get rid of the player before the player even knows what's happening
 

Whirlwin

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Why do fans always want to trade away proven players who are at the top of the roster for draft picks? Makes zero sense at all.
it's about the salary cap also even though there's never really an issue with this franchise. People just think there was. The keep the team Young. Youngest starting team in the league last season. one player does not make a team I wish I had time to truly explain it further tri-wave just came home LMAO
 
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