I could live with an Iloka and Quinn finish

[America's Cowboy]

Here's a blurb from Football Outsiders:



FWIW, they weren't too big on Awuzie either.

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/four-downs/2019/four-downs-nfc-east

 

[Sydla]

Someone doesn’t like facts and analysis I see.

 

[LACowboysFan1]

Iloka is for sure a better tackler but besides that I dont see much of an upgrade.

At this point, I think it's open for debate. There is such a thing as team chemistry, he might improve that, if he makes a few key plays it might "inspire" others to improve their level of play.

But we won't know until the season arrives, it's just funny that some have immediately anointed him as an immediate upgrade without even having a single game with Dallas....

 

[glimmerman]

At this point, I think it's open for debate. There is such a thing as team chemistry, he might improve that, if he makes a few key plays it might "inspire" others to improve their level of play.

But we won't know until the season arrives, it's just funny that some have immediately anointed him as an immediate upgrade without even having a single game with Dallas....

Wait till he misses a tackle or someone makes a catch on him. Lol...

 

[LACowboysFan1]

Know who Football Outsiders are? Stats guys, computer nerds basically, who have input from the 4 letter sports networks, etc, who are mostly writers.

Since when did Football Outsiders become the "experts" on who's a good or bad player?

 

[Sydla]

Know who Football Outsiders are? Stats guys, computer nerds basically, who have input from the 4 letter sports networks, etc, who are mostly writers.

Since when did Football Outsiders become the "experts" on who's a good or bad player?

These are my favorite kinds of posts. The ones that try to undercut the credibility of unbiased sites because they don't agree with your belief on how good a player is.

Jeff Heath is not a very good safety. Its perplexing that some of you struggle to admit when one of our players just isn't up to snuff.

 

[Bullflop]

I agree with the OP, although it remains to be seen if Quinn actually becomes a Cowboy. He may not be the ideal DE in terms of run support, which he isn't but his presence could at least be valuable in terms of his ability to pressure opposing QB. In that sense, he'd be a rotational piece who could likely help to relieve the absence of Randy Gregory in the defensive lineup.

To me, Iloka represents a far more capable tackler than Jeff Heath. Unfortunately, Heath had more broken tackles to his blame than all but three of the safeties in the league, according to the stats I've seen lately. Iloka is considerably more valuable as an in-the-box safety and not altogether at all bad in deep coverage either. Heath can still be of value as a ST leader, where he shines in comparison to his play at strong safety.

 

[Sandyf]

Heath is a great backup option and a great special team guy. Just don't believe that Dallas ever planned on him being the starting safety but things happen. Is Iloka an upgrade over Heath, yes he is. Is Iloka the answer at safety, well maybe this year but betting we draft one 2nd or 3rd round and even maybe another late. You upgrade where you can in free agency and hopefully go into the draft able to pick the best available on your board (your board not any of the draft boards or analyst theory). If that is a safety so be it but you never should pass of a guy rated much higher.

 

[LACowboysFan1]

Its perplexing that some of you struggle to admit when one of our players just isn't up to snuff.

I have never said Heath is a good or average safety, I've consistently said he's below average, but why do some insist he's "terrible", "trash" or that the Cowboys MUST get a better safety or the team is sunk? That is a matter of opinion, and NOBODY is the "end all" as to their opinion, if you can't accept MY opinion that Heath isn't "terrible" or "trash", or even maybe, just MAYBE even "good", then I don't have to accept your opinion, or anybody else's as the gospel truth...

 

[Sydla]

I have never said Heath is a good or average safety, I've consistently said he's below average, but why do some insist he's "terrible", "trash" or that the Cowboys MUST get a better safety or the team is sunk? That is a matter of opinion, and NOBODY is the "end all" as to their opinion, if you can't accept MY opinion that Heath isn't "terrible" or "trash", or even maybe, just MAYBE even "good", then I don't have to accept your opinion, or anybody else's as the gospel truth...

Well in fairness, he was fairly bad last year. He was probably the weakest link on this defense (along with Awuzie if you believe the stats on QB ratings facing those guys, etc.) He was not "even good".

He's a backup safety and a good special teams player. That's it. And there is nothing wrong with that. We need guys like that to fill out a roster. I found it weird that you would attack the credibility of a website that frankly, is saying the same thing other analysts are saying.

I think some of you guys tend to get a bit too defensive when people are criticizing one of our players.

 

[LACowboysFan1]

Well in fairness, he was fairly bad last year. He was probably the weakest link on this defense (along with Awuzie if you believe the stats on QB ratings facing those guys, etc.) He was not "even good".

He's a backup safety and a good special teams player. That's it. And there is nothing wrong with that. We need guys like that to fill out a roster. I found it weird that you would attack the credibility of a website that frankly, is saying the same thing other analysts are saying.

I think some of you guys tend to get a bit too defensive when people are criticizing one of our players.

It's just that an ex-NFL player, coach, etc. who would say (if he would, that's unlikely as ex-NFLers are wroth to criticize a player much of the time) Heaths a poor safety would hold far more weight with me than a bunch of bloggers and stat analysis guys. So what if "others" are saying the same thing, if they agree with the others then that tends to make their opinions less likely to be criticized. It's far less risky to "go along to get along" and avoid the criticism, especially when they don't have the ex-NFL credentials to back up their opinion.

And don't forget, those bloggers and others aren't necessarily objective, there's tons of Cowboys haters out there, as I'm sure as a Cowboys fan (assuming you are) you know...

 

[charron]

We have a good defense that help the saints to 10 but also got destroyed by the rams run game. Not sure if IIoka is much of an upgrade over heath but in those times where we struggle stopping the run he might be a better option.

 

[LACowboysFan1]

We have a good defense that help the saints to 10 but also got destroyed by the rams run game. Not sure if IIoka is much of an upgrade over heath but in those times where we struggle stopping the run he might be a better option.

If you have to depend on your secondary to stop the run after the front 7 let the runner through it ain't gonna matter who the safety is

 

[DRella]

We had one bad game against the rush last season where it was obvious where our weaknesses were. We sorely missed a safety that could tackle and a DT that could plug the middle. Throughout the entire season, our LB's played extremely well to cover for these holes. But that playoff game showed our weakness in those positions.

IIaka is a big bodied safety that traditionally works well with Richard. His tackling capabilities are better then Heath. With some better coaching this guy can be a huge upgrade over what we ended the season with last. As for the DT position, Woods was a pleasant surprise. If we can somehow get Quinn that would allow us to rotate Crawford throughout the line at this will help the DT position. I am in hopes that both Gregory and Crawford suspensions are minimal as they will go a long way in the defensive line play. The hope is that the draft nets us another Safety and DT to assist in filling our depth and holes.

 

[Sydla]

It's just that an ex-NFL player, coach, etc. who would say (if he would, that's unlikely as ex-NFLers are wroth to criticize a player much of the time) Heaths a poor safety would hold far more weight with me than a bunch of bloggers and stat analysis guys. So what if "others" are saying the same thing, if they agree with the others then that tends to make their opinions less likely to be criticized. It's far less risky to "go along to get along" and avoid the criticism, especially when they don't have the ex-NFL credentials to back up their opinion.

And don't forget, those bloggers and others aren't necessarily objective, there's tons of Cowboys haters out there, as I'm sure as a Cowboys fan (assuming you are) you know...

So that's it? Bloggers, analysts, reporters don't have a lot of credibility and apparently probably are just piggy backing off each other to avoid criticism? Oh and they might be Cowboys haters and despite the fact some of have said Iloka would be an upgrade on Heath, what they really are doing is just showing their Cowboys hate by picking on Heath.

I'll give you credit. This is the most creative spin job I have ever seen in an attempt to defend Heath.

 

[Denim Chicken]

If you have to depend on your secondary to stop the run after the front 7 let the runner through it ain't gonna matter who the safety is

Yeah, because no teams other than the Cowboys use their SS in run support.

Come on, man.

 

[LACowboysFan1]

We had one bad game against the rush last season where it was obvious where our weaknesses were. We sorely missed a safety that could tackle and a DT that could plug the middle. Throughout the entire season, our LB's played extremely well to cover for these holes. But that playoff game showed our weakness in those positions.

IIaka is a big bodied safety that traditionally works well with Richard. His tackling capabilities are better then Heath. With some better coaching this guy can be a huge upgrade over what we ended the season with last. As for the DT position, Woods was a pleasant surprise. If we can somehow get Quinn that would allow us to rotate Crawford throughout the line at this will help the DT position. I am in hopes that both Gregory and Crawford suspensions are minimal as they will go a long way in the defensive line play. The hope is that the draft nets us another Safety and DT to assist in filling our depth and holes.

DT was the priority, imo, before we got Iloka, and to me it still is. If you have to pull your SS down to help on the line, or close to it, play action, etc. can be used to avoid your "great tackling" SS, for example. I"m just not a fan of having to have your front 7 have secondary help to defend the run, there's typically only 5 blockers for 7 defenders, or 6 if they have a fullback or H-back leading the way, and you can't put all 5-6 blockers in one small area, the DEs can loop around and come in from behind to stop the back. We saw that in SB XXX, after one 23 yard run early in the game Emmitt got only 26 the rest of the game, the steelers were coming around the edge and getting to Emmitt before he got going. Thank goodness for O'Donnel's ints....

 

[charron]

If you have to depend on your secondary to stop the run after the front 7 let the runner through it ain't gonna matter who the safety is

Sure but how many years in a row can we demand a better 1T who can do this only to be disapointed again. But a sure tackling SS absolutely helps those times a RB gets to that level...better than missing.

 

[DRella]

DT was the priority, imo, before we got Iloka, and to me it still is. If you have to pull your SS down to help on the line, or close to it, play action, etc. can be used to avoid your "great tackling" SS, for example. I"m just not a fan of having to have your front 7 have secondary help to defend the run, there's typically only 5 blockers for 7 defenders, or 6 if they have a fullback or H-back leading the way, and you can't put all 5-6 blockers in one small area, the DEs can loop around and come in from behind to stop the back. We saw that in SB XXX, after one 23 yard run early in the game Emmitt got only 26 the rest of the game, the steelers were coming around the edge and getting to Emmitt before he got going. Thank goodness for O'Donnel's ints....

Very true, I get what you are saying. But a run plugging DT has never been in the Cowboys plan for a very long time. Who was the last true big bodied DT we had on our team that was a force? I cant even remember one!!!

If the Cowboys could try to find one in the draft that should be top priority. We have the DE's that can seal the corners against the run game (Lawrence, Crawford, Gregory, possibly Quinn). Where we struggle is in the middle of the line. LVE and Smith are left on their own way too much. This should be about preserving our young LB's as much as possible as it is to stop run game. These guys are being forced to tackle way too much once opposing RB's get to second level. This is what killed us against the Rams.

 

[LACowboysFan1]

I'll give you credit. This is the most creative spin job I have ever seen in an attempt to defend Heath.

I'm done with your putting meanings to what I didn't say. Saying Heath isn't as bad as some say, in MY OPINION, isn't "defending" him. It's saying not everybody has the exact same view on his play. That's all.

That's your "spin" on my comments, and it's wrong.

That's enough argument on one player, time to move on, we'll see this year what happens. If Heath is replaced and Iloka "shines", I'll be first to say getting Iloka was a good move. But if he's not that much better, I expect the "experts" to also say that.

Not that most will, they'll slink off back under their rock, or find another Cowboys player to hate on....

Yeah, because no teams other than the Cowboys use their SS in run support.

Come on, man.

Of course they do, that's clear as day. The point I was making is to HAVE to depend on the SS is the problem, and if your d-line can't handle the run game most of the time you need an upgrade there more than at safety.