Tanks seeks 22.5, Cowboys offer 20

[Diehardblues]

Again, you're placing too much emphasis on rotational players. When you take an honest look at their production.

Gregory was more than a rotational player IMO last year but regardless losing all 3 will have effects. How much is the bigger question.

 

[nightrain]

Hopefully at the age of 26? He is entering his prime and his late season struggles have been more about his torn labrum than his abilities.

The way I look at it, his delayed surgery and recovery are going to impact his availability and not knowing how much damage is in need of repair and the outlook for full recovery is troubling.

 

[glimmerman]

The way I look at it, his delayed surgery and recovery are going to impact his availability and not knowing how much damage is in need of repair and the outlook for full recovery is troubling.

Yeah if we withdraw the contract and trade or let him walk then whomever gave him the advise to hold off on the surgery is going to have costed him money. Is a risky gamble.

 

[Denim Chicken]

Lol, yeah sure you get it. You have contradicted yourself quite often in this thread.

Ok, buddy. You can think what you want about what a player should do for loyalty? Team spirit? The greater good?

that's how negotiations work in the real word...

 

[gimmesix]

I think more than that they were handing out big contracts to guys who were no longer in their prime and when released from the team we had a lot of dead money that hit the team in the face.

That was definitely one shift. We were having a bunch of older players miss time because of injury, which is why we let DeMarcus Ware go a little too early. Overall, I agree with the policy not to pay age, although I think there are always exceptions while the front office seems to deal more in absolutes.

Frankly, everything should be case by case. I agreed, for example, with not paying DeMarco Murray as much as Philly did because of the injury history with the player, not so much age although the shelf life of a running back is generally not long. I didn't agree with our plan for replacing him.

Dead money is ultimately just a part of having a salary cap, even though a lot of fans don't seem to be willing to accept that reality. The difficult thing is to figure out with each player how to manipulate where and when you take the dead money hit, how much you are willing to take and the probability of the player staying viable until you reach that point. Most of the time the objective is to reach a point in the contract where the savings outweigh the player's production and cost.

 

[nightrain]

Actually, that's incorrect. Dallas got in salary cap trouble in the 1990s because it didn't understand how to manipulate the cap. It has since learned how to stagger contracts to essentially make one pay for another. It's like a puzzle that has to be put together in a specific way to work, only there are some unknown variables (such as injury, sudden retirement) that can make teams have to shift the puzzle some, but good cap managers keep those variables in mind when they are structuring deals.

You don't think the dead money against the cap they constantly paid out to players getting cut after numerous reconstructions to their contracts was a problem? You know Aikman accounted for almost 15% of the 2001 cap and wasn't even on the roster?

 

[gimmesix]

You don't think the dead money against the cap they constantly paid out to players getting cut after numerous reconstructions to their contracts was a problem? You know Aikman accounted for almost 15% of the 2001 cap and wasn't even on the roster?

You know that Aikman was a lifetime ago and Dallas' cap strategy has taken a much different shape since then?

 

[links18]

Give him the extra 2 million in incentives.

 

[TwoCentPlain]

Trade him for what you can get right now and move on. He is not getting $22.5M per year from any team. I doubt he would get a deal at $20M per year from any team.

 

[Sydla]

Far from an Eagles fan!!! If anything would have to question who you are a fan of when you are willing to handcuff the Cowboys long term by signing someone that isn't worth what hes asking for!!!

Short sightedness is for the weak and uneducated. The Cowboys either hold firm and get Tank signed on their terms. Or they trade his ***. Either way its a win for the organization.

I didn’t call you an Eagle fan.

Aerolith, the guy you responded to is an Eagles fan.

 

[BillyBates]

first and foremost I would hope that his full extent of his torn labrum ,type of tear, timeline and prognosis is known. If he is go, pay um. where are we to find another playing at his level?. Gregory busy smoking left handed cigarettes has certainly bolstered his position. The Detroit Lions ,Flowers is averaging a seasonal 18m. this is absolutly a no brainer for JJ..

 

[Toruk_Makto]

well that's my take as well. I wouldn't blink honestly. But the reality is, if they are this close, it will get done.

And yet people want to complain still.

We also don't know how close they are on guaranteed money which is more important than AAV and headline number.

 

[LittleD]

If we can throw money at a retired, washed up TE, we can come to terms with one of the best pass rushers in the game. Meet in the middle and get it done.

Big, gigantic difference in guaranteed money involved, right?

 

[LittleD]

Ok, buddy. You can think what you want about what a player should do for loyalty? Team spirit? The greater good?

that's how negotiations work in the real word...

In the "real" world, your employer says how much your raise is going to be and you keep your mouth shut and accept it or you go find
yourself a new job. Employment at will and firing at will in most states. In the "real" world, unions are shrinking fast because jobs can
find Asia workers in a heartbeat.

 

[Denim Chicken]

In the "real" world, your employer says how much your raise is going to be and you keep your mouth shut and accept it or you go find
yourself a new job. Employment at will and firing at will in most states. In the "real" world, unions are shrinking fast because jobs can
find Asia workers in a heartbeat.

OK, go get some Chinese DE to take his place, LOL.

I deal with the ILA Union in my job and they laugh at your real world assessment.

 

[Jimbo69]

I'm sorry I don't understand your logic. It's a business from end to end. Players want as much as they can, owners want to make as much as they can. Who are we to set the market on what a player wants and can get.
The truth of the matter is guys like JJ Watt, Mack, Donald usually don't hit free agency, guys like Vernon and Flowers do so these mid to upper tier guys set the market and the top guys usually get a bit more.
The bigger lesson that management should learn is sign your guys early. Look at what the Eagles did with Zach Ertz, paid him early. The Pats do that with Gronk, they did it with Shaq Mason.

I have no problem with any worker in any industry trying to get a fair rate of pay. What i do get p****** about is people not negotiating with their employer in good faith. His decision not to take the surgery complicates the Cowboys negotiating a fair value as they have to take his recovery and ability to play not only this season but his future performance. They then ( according to the leak) meet his 20m request and he moves the goalposts. That is not negotiating in good faith.
This team will miss tanks early season performances but at 22.5m ( and the implications for signing zeke, dak, amari etc) they will not miss the latte season performances.
If he is genuinely stiffing the cowboys for a couple of million ( which is being reported) i would walk away. If we get a 1st in a defense laden draft and use the money in FA on say quinn and suh, i would not be overly upset. Then get the other guys signed.

 

[LittleD]

OK, go get some Chinese DE to take his place, LOL.

Well, maybe we should look...The NBA finds star players in China and Europe all the time. So does baseball, golf, tennis, and soccer.

 

[LittleD]

I have no problem with any worker in any industry trying to get a fair rate of pay. What i do get p****** about is people not negotiating with their employer in good faith. His decision not to take the surgery complicates the Cowboys negotiating a fair value as they have to take his recovery and ability to play not only this season but his future performance. They then ( according to the leak) meet his 20m request and he moves the goalposts. That is not negotiating in good faith.
This team will miss tanks early season performances but at 22.5m ( and the implications for signing zeke, dak, amari etc) they will not miss the latte season performances.
If he is genuinely stiffing the cowboys for a couple of million ( which is being reported) i would walk away. If we get a 1st in a defense laden draft and use the money in FA on say quinn and suh, i would not be overly upset. Then get the other guys signed.

It may be 22mil he's asking for but, the whole deal is how much guaranteed money they want. We could at 100mil to the contract in year 5 though
he would never see it.

 

[nightrain]

You know that Aikman was a lifetime ago and Dallas' cap strategy has taken a much different shape since then?

The Cowboys have been good the past two years because they have stayed away from top tier FAs and have a young roster. They were in cap purgatory for almost two decades because of situations like the Aikman release, one example of many.

 

[Hawkeye0202]

And yet people want to complain still.

We also don't know how close they are on guaranteed money which is more important than AAV and headline number.

Bingo! or structure