Ed Werner good scoop on Hill

[CouchCoach]

I wonder what will happen if Garett and the rest of his coaching staff contracts are not renewed after the season. This is a cut throat business and coaches come a go.

Except that on this team, the FO hires the coaches, not the HC.

 

[PhillyCowboysFan]

heard the same about Marinelli/randy Gregory relationship. it didn't work out. hope he doesn't turn out to be another david irving.

Two totally different issues. Gregory has a substance problem vs Hill with attitude issues. One is a little easier to turnaround.

 

[lkelly]

"Boom or Bust" is one of my favorite NFL cliches.

What does it even mean? He's going to either be an All Pro or out of the league?

He's going to be a starter or inactive every game?

He's going to go to the Hall of Fame or someone is going to find evidence he's the Zodiac Killer?

What if he’s an All-Pro or the Unibomber?

Win-win!

 

[Pants]

the only team "in" on Hill was Dallas...everyone else likely laughed at the stupidity of the FO for taking a 3rd to 4th round guy @ #58.......I am not upset with Hill being a cowboy, just where they took him

 

[xwalker]

He spoke to 4 NFL DC and this is what they had to say:

1. DL coach liked him alot.
2. Thought he can become Sheldon Richardson type player.
3. Very immature player with major coachability issues
4. Felt he would get drafted round 4-5 because of possibly attitude issues.

He didn't stop there. He had Hill DC on and this is what he basically said.

No one will out hustle him getting to ball. Has amazing first step. Team switched coaching staff and it took Hill time to buy into new system. Reason he only started 1 game last year is because they reward player who practice hard with starting games (this means Hill wasn't really doing what they wanted in practice so he didn't start).Toward end of year he really started to get it and played better.

Marinelli & Hill spoke on phone for weeks and it became father/son type relationship.

My take:
Hill has alot of upside. This is boom or bust type pick. Dallas probably drafted him too soon but felt relationship between Marinelli & Hill mitigated some of those coachability issues. Dallas had a massive need for young DT so we can't fault them for pick. What I think they should have done was trade back up for that S.

Was it the 1st DL coach or the 2nd one?

 

[Hennessy_King]

What are you talking about? You wanted to know about his effort so I volunteered to help educate you.

Btw, I just got done reading your LVE reviews post draft. Lol, boy if thats a measuring stick for your scouting ability we will be just fine.

Click to expand...
I love what LVE can do in space. He's fast, agile, takes decent angles, tackles pretty well, and good in coverage. If he were taking Lee's spot I would be ok with it. But his negatives are all things a MLB will have to deal with in our defense. The only thing that screams MLB about this player is his size. His play screams otherwise.

Sounds about right. Cowboys were smart and played him more in Lee's spot

 

[cowboyec]

Dude, calm down. When a draft pick gives you hopes of eating people, you are taking this too seriously.

truth.
I hope he eats people.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

I actually don’t think it is that big of a risk. Scott Frost and his staff loved Hill and he apparently had an issue with the new system the second staff brought in, probably because it made him take on blocks rather than use his burst to shoot gaps. That isn’t that terrible in the first place. Secondly, every defensive lineman who ever played in Marinelli’s system loves it like no other. It suits Hill’s strengths perfectly... he will have no problem with what he’s asked to do.

He plays two years as a true freshman and true sophomore with zero problems, and then his final year he bucks the defensive system a little and doesn’t get to start. I don’t think that is what I would categorize as a problem guy.

Also, I’ve heard people saying he was benched his final year but that is way off... he just didn’t start the game and wasn’t listed as a starter... he played a lot in every game.

Finally, if you are going to take a risk (albeit a small one here IMO)... talent like Hill has is what you take a chance on. His first step is incredibly explosive. He’s into the OL before they can really even get out of their stance. His get off is rare. And speaking for myself, when I look for traits I want out of a DL, first step explosion and quick get off is the first thing I look for... particularly in a 3T. That can’t be coached and isn’t something you find very often.

Someone who weighs 308 and has explosiveness like that? Someone who plays like his hair is on fire every snap? Well, that is someone I’d take a chance on. Especially when his transgression is so small.

Fully agree.

 

[Brax]

What effort? The guy was knocked for taking practice and plays off by the coaching staff hence why he didnt start.

I am worried also just saw this, this is the best yet, a "work ethic contract" , OH I forgot it's a process!!!
https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nf...efore-drafting-him/ar-BBWlTPL?ocid=spartanntp

 

[CapnB]

Is he the next Rodey Weston?

Better... Roddey Piper

 

[Bluefin]

He spoke to 4 NFL DC and this is what they had to say:

1. DL coach liked him alot.
2. Thought he can become Sheldon Richardson type player.
3. Very immature player with major coachability issues
4. Felt he would get drafted round 4-5 because of possibly attitude issues.

He didn't stop there. He had Hill DC on and this is what he basically said.

No one will out hustle him getting to ball. Has amazing first step. Team switched coaching staff and it took Hill time to buy into new system. Reason he only started 1 game last year is because they reward player who practice hard with starting games (this means Hill wasn't really doing what they wanted in practice so he didn't start).Toward end of year he really started to get it and played better.

Marinelli & Hill spoke on phone for weeks and it became father/son type relationship.

My take:
Hill has alot of upside. This is boom or bust type pick. Dallas probably drafted him too soon but felt relationship between Marinelli & Hill mitigated some of those coachability issues. Dallas had a massive need for young DT so we can't fault them for pick. What I think they should have done was trade back up for that S.

Matt and ED speak with Randy Shannon, ex- Miami head coach, and Trysten Hill's defensive coordinator last season at UCF.

Shannon: Amazing get off, quick twitch, reminded him a little bit of Warren Sapp, though not that athletic, unique ability of causing havoc in the backfield. Fits what Rod Marinelli wants, expect someone who will play hard every down, chases the ball harder than most DL he's been around, that's unique and something you can't coach.

Expects Hill to have an immediate impact in Marinelli's scheme, perfectly suited to be in a DT rotation, will get push up the middle. When Dallas was good in the past, they had DTs getting push up the middle, thinks we'll see that this year from Trysten.

Q: I spoke to 4 NFL defensive coordinator to get their evaluation of Hill. Everybody had nothing but positive things to say about Hill's athletic ability and how hard he plays, but one said he wasn't sure if he loved the game and another said he was a 4th-5th round pick d/t concerns over being difficult to coach.

Shannon: It was fun to coach Hill, got along great with him. Hill was coming from a system (3-4) that played him over the center and asked him to knock that player backwards for 2 years. That was it. We talked a little bit, you played 15 games, how many sacks did you have? Hill: What? (gets asked again), 1.5 sacks (you thought that was great?) Yeah (it's not great).

(speaking to HIll) You have to understand a DT needs to be disruptive to play in the NFL, you have to change your mindset, and it was hard for him, had to talk to him constantly, but when he finally understood, you can see the difference in how he played late in the year verses early on. And that's a hard thing for NFL people and scouts when they watch tape.

Q: He only started one game last year, why was that?

Shannon: Well...it's because with us everything is based upon how you practice and what you do, each day we tell them you're graded and if you get high marks, then you will start. There were a couple of guys who had to go through the transition of practicing hard every day, because when you get to the next level, that's what they want, practice at a high level all the time. I was just getting a couple of guys ready, and getting Trysten ready, for that.

Q: Did he embrace that at some pint? What was his reaction, being someone who expected to start every game and being told you have to earn it?

Shannon: Young players are like...start, start, start, it was hard for him, we talked throughout the year, encouraged players to share their thoughts like the NFL will do, you're not an individual, everything we do here is about the team, let us know if you think we can do something better, we will do the same.

Coached Hill before playing FAU, when this (play) happens, they will turn you loose and you have to tackle to the running back. That week, he wasn't doing it right, joking around in practice, all of a sudden in the FAU game they turned him loose twice and it was two TDs. Boom. For us as coaches, OK Trysten, we told you this would happen and you didn't work on it in practice. All of a sudden he saw the big picture, they told me to do this and I didn't (& hurt the team), now I need to start getting better.

Those things, sometimes, you have to show young men, they have to go through it to get it, and he did. And that's why if you look at TFLs, it's like night and day, he probably had double or triple the amount than the 2 years before.

Q: It seems like he would've loved the opportunity you were giving him compared to playing in the old scheme?

Shannon: Well, it would, you know those guys before had him for 2 years, he knew them and didn't know us, he knew I had coached great DTs, but didn't understand why, and you have to give them the why, and by the end of the year he got it,. It's a one week try out basis whether or not you get to start.

Q: Is he a funny guy? He did like to provide feedback, maybe even when it wasn't wanted.

Shannon: Funny type, he's not belligerent, he's respectful, told him if he has a problem, just tell me, if you don't understand how we are teaching, give us feedback so we can understand how to coach you. I think that's what most coaches don't do and I think Marinelli does a great job of it. You can tell a young man something, but he may turn it and hear something different. You may say I want this done and he'll say I'm doing it (but isn't), you understand what I mean? That's all it was, was communication, and that's the one thing Hill did for us, he communicated . Some coaches are afraid of that, I'm not, I like that. Don't just tell them what to do, be specific, give details (to help them understand).

Q: As a player comparison, I don't want people to miss this, you said Warren Sapp, who played for you at Miami, one of the great under tackles in the game, a hall of famer, a Super Bowl winner, why would you compare them?

Shannon: The quickness, they're twitchy and very quick, Sapp had very powerful hands, and comparing to what Marinelli teaches, and what Sapp went through, and what Trysten's gone through. He's taller than Sapp, who knew how to turn and flip his body, Trysten will have to learn how to twist his body in the NFL, two 300 ponders get on you quick, you have to turn your body to avoid getting knocked down.

Q: Did you have any sense the Cowboys were specifically targeting Hill, maybe more so than other teams?

Shannon: Not really, everybody called on him and talked about him, I was drafted by Dallas (11th rd, '89) and know most of the scouts there on a first name basis, so we always keep in contact about players, and they called about him and wanted to know how things went and stuff like that.

Q: Knowing Marinelli like you do, do you think this is a great fit for Trysten?

Shannon: It's a tremendous fit for him, a guy that's going to work him to be the best he can be, Hill will go in the game because he's very smart and quick, he'll understand what Marinelli means by getting off the football, because that's something he can do.

Q: When you came to UCF, were there any other players you used on film or had him watch, so he could get a sense of what you were looking for (in your scheme)?

Shannon: No, not at all. I didn't do that, I try to coach guys and what we expect out of them instead of comparing them (to other players). A lot of times guys can't compare, and they don't want to be compared, they want to be seen as individuals, so those are things I try to correct them on.

Werder: I spoke to Greg Gabriel, a former personnel man with the Chicago Bears where Marinelli coached before coming to Dallas. I reached out to him and said, what do you think? Gabriel said Marinelli will make Trysten Hill a Pro Bowl player, said he loves his talent, but he needs to be pushed and Rod will do that or kill him. Either way (laughing), Gabriel thinks there will be a significant result from this draft pick.

Mosley: Glenn "Stretch" Smith (former Cowboys scout), our in house scout did a ton of research on safeties, and I think this tells you what the Cowboys think about the 3Tech being a more important position than safety.

Smith: In this defense, Marinelli wants that guy to go in there and eat that double team, he wants to get Quinn and Lawrence loose on the edge, he wanted that, was it a surprise to see it in the second round, a guy who didn't start every game last year, the guys I talk to down there says he's got unbelievable push and lower body strength, and quite frankle that's what Marinelli wants, and it kind of sounds like he gets his way and whoever he wants, that's kinda what happened. Maybe they're happy with how he evaluates, I question the pick, too, because I liked Taco Charlton coming out, I liked him better than Rashan Gary in this years draft, but for whatever reason Taco doesn't seem to be taking to the coaching. It's baffling to me, but for whatever reason, Marinelli gets his guy. Kudos to him.

Q: Would you have misgivings pairing Marinelli's coaching style with a player like Hill, who had issues last year having to earn the right to start in practice?

Smith: I do, but maybe he's a guy who likes to eat Tabasco at every meal. Marinelli's gonna come in there every day with a big ole bottle and see if he can get a different attitude, see if he'll respond better to that coaching during the week.I'll say this, if you can keep your weight on in central FLA, you might get up to 340 real quick here with the good food.

Mosley: The good and the bad with Trysten Hill, I spoke with someone pretty high up in the Cowboys organization, and of course they're going to say nice things about Hill. 'very talented' 'could be very good' 'his skillset fits our scheme perfectly'

We then go to a GM in the NFL, someone I've known for a lot of years, and when asked directly about Hill, he simply responded with 'just a guy' The dreaded JAG. So, we've had just a guy, not sure he loves football and we've had 4th or 5th round pick to go along with some real positive things. That's the great thing about getting opinions across the spectrum and not just at the Star, who picked this guy and now have to sell the pick to the public.

I'm sure the Cowboys believe everything they say, obviously they like the guy, they're paying him millions of dollars to come in and be a defensive player, raise the performance of the defense and make them a perennial Super Bowl contender, that's their goal. Whether he's that or Taco Charlton, or worse, Ebenezer Ekuban or Shante carver, all remains to be determined by how well he plays. Marinelli put his stamp on this player and has a great reputation for defensive line talent. His rep probably exceeds any other coach in the league except perhaps Dante Scarnecia (Pats OL coach), to be the guru of his position.

 

[Doomsdayblitz]

The best thing about this is that he did get it-finally. He's a good kid who will want to impress Rod. He's a freak athlete with great size & power. I don't think it be that long before he's in a rotation with Collins & Co. Best way to effect a QB is pressure up the middle.

 

[Hennessy_King]

Matt and ED speak with Randy Shannon, ex- Miami head coach, and Trysten Hill's defensive coordinator last season at UCF.

Shannon: Amazing get off, quick twitch, reminded him a little bit of Warren Sapp, though not that athletic, unique ability of causing havoc in the backfield. Fits what Rod Marinelli wants, expect someone who will play hard every down, chases the ball harder than most DL he's been around, that's unique and something you can't coach.

Expects Hill to have an immediate impact in Marinelli's scheme, perfectly suited to be in a DT rotation, will get push up the middle. When Dallas was good in the past, they had DTs getting push up the middle, thinks we'll see that this year from Trysten.

Q: I spoke to 4 NFL defensive coordinator to get their evaluation of Hill. Everybody had nothing but positive things to say about Hill's athletic ability and how hard he plays, but one said he wasn't sure if he loved the game and another said he was a 4th-5th round pick d/t concerns over being difficult to coach.

Shannon: It was fun to coach Hill, got along great with him. Hill was coming from a system (3-4) that played him over the center and asked him to knock that player backwards for 2 years. That was it. We talked a little bit, you played 15 games, how many sacks did you have? Hill: What? (gets asked again), 1.5 sacks (you thought that was great?) Yeah (it's not great).

(speaking to HIll) You have to understand a DT needs to be disruptive to play in the NFL, you have to change your mindset, and it was hard for him, had to talk to him constantly, but when he finally understood, you can see the difference in how he played late in the year verses early on. And that's a hard thing for NFL people and scouts when they watch tape.

Q: He only started one game last year, why was that?

Shannon: Well...it's because with us everything is based upon how you practice and what you do, each day we tell them you're graded and if you get high marks, then you will start. There were a couple of guys who had to go through the transition of practicing hard every day, because when you get to the next level, that's what they want, practice at a high level all the time. I was just getting a couple of guys ready, and getting Trysten ready, for that.

Q: Did he embrace that at some pint? What was his reaction, being someone who expected to start every game and being told you have to earn it?

Shannon: Young players are like...start, start, start, it was hard for him, we talked throughout the year, encouraged players to share their thoughts like the NFL will do, you're not an individual, everything we do here is about the team, let us know if you think we can do something better, we will do the same.

Coached Hill before playing FAU, when this (play) happens, they will turn you loose and you have to tackle to the running back. That week, he wasn't doing it right, joking around in practice, all of a sudden in the FAU game they turned him loose twice and it was two TDs. Boom. For us as coaches, OK Trysten, we told you this would happen and you didn't work on it in practice. All of a sudden he saw the big picture, they told me to do this and I didn't (& hurt the team), now I need to start getting better.

Those things, sometimes, you have to show young men, they have to go through it to get it, and he did. And that's why if you look at TFLs, it's like night and day, he probably had double or triple the amount than the 2 years before.

Q: It seems like he would've loved the opportunity you were giving him compared to playing in the old scheme?

Shannon: Well, it would, you know those guys before had him for 2 years, he knew them and didn't know us, he knew I had coached great DTs, but didn't understand why, and you have to give them the why, and by the end of the year he got it,. It's a one week try out basis whether or not you get to start.

Q: Is he a funny guy? He did like to provide feedback, maybe even when it wasn't wanted.

Shannon: Funny type, he's not belligerent, he's respectful, told him if he has a problem, just tell me, if you don't understand how we are teaching, give us feedback so we can understand how to coach you. I think that's what most coaches don't do and I think Marinelli does a great job of it. You can tell a young man something, but he may turn it and hear something different. You may say I want this done and he'll say I'm doing it (but isn't), you understand what I mean? That's all it was, was communication, and that's the one thing Hill did for us, he communicated . Some coaches are afraid of that, I'm not, I like that. Don't just tell them what to do, be specific, give details (to help them understand).

Q: As a player comparison, I don't want people to miss this, you said Warren Sapp, who played for you at Miami, one of the great under tackles in the game, a hall of famer, a Super Bowl winner, why would you compare them?

Shannon: The quickness, they're twitchy and very quick, Sapp had very powerful hands, and comparing to what Marinelli teaches, and what Sapp went through, and what Trysten's gone through. He's taller than Sapp, who knew how to turn and flip his body, Trysten will have to learn how to twist his body in the NFL, two 300 ponders get on you quick, you have to turn your body to avoid getting knocked down.

Q: Did you have any sense the Cowboys were specifically targeting Hill, maybe more so than other teams?

Shannon: Not really, everybody called on him and talked about him, I was drafted by Dallas (11th rd, '89) and know most of the scouts there on a first name basis, so we always keep in contact about players, and they called about him and wanted to know how things went and stuff like that.

Q: Knowing Marinelli like you do, do you think this is a great fit for Trysten?

Shannon: It's a tremendous fit for him, a guy that's going to work him to be the best he can be, Hill will go in the game because he's very smart and quick, he'll understand what Marinelli means by getting off the football, because that's something he can do.

Q: When you came to UCF, were there any other players you used on film or had him watch, so he could get a sense of what you were looking for (in your scheme)?

Shannon: No, not at all. I didn't do that, I try to coach guys and what we expect out of them instead of comparing them (to other players). A lot of times guys can't compare, and they don't want to be compared, they want to be seen as individuals, so those are things I try to correct them on.

Werder: I spoke to Greg Gabriel, a former personnel man with the Chicago Bears where Marinelli coached before coming to Dallas. I reached out to him and said, what do you think? Gabriel said Marinelli will make Trysten Hill a Pro Bowl player, said he loves his talent, but he needs to be pushed and Rod will do that or kill him. Either way (laughing), Gabriel thinks there will be a significant result from this draft pick.

Mosley: Glenn "Stretch" Smith (former Cowboys scout), our in house scout did a ton of research on safeties, and I think this tells you what the Cowboys think about the 3Tech being a more important position than safety.

Smith: In this defense, Marinelli wants that guy to go in there and eat that double team, he wants to get Quinn and Lawrence loose on the edge, he wanted that, was it a surprise to see it in the second round, a guy who didn't start every game last year, the guys I talk to down there says he's got unbelievable push and lower body strength, and quite frankle that's what Marinelli wants, and it kind of sounds like he gets his way and whoever he wants, that's kinda what happened. Maybe they're happy with how he evaluates, I question the pick, too, because I liked Taco Charlton coming out, I liked him better than Rashan Gary in this years draft, but for whatever reason Taco doesn't seem to be taking to the coaching. It's baffling to me, but for whatever reason, Marinelli gets his guy. Kudos to him.

Q: Would you have misgivings pairing Marinelli's coaching style with a player like Hill, who had issues last year having to earn the right to start in practice?

Smith: I do, but maybe he's a guy who likes to eat Tabasco at every meal. Marinelli's gonna come in there every day with a big ole bottle and see if he can get a different attitude, see if he'll respond better to that coaching during the week.I'll say this, if you can keep your weight on in central FLA, you might get up to 340 real quick here with the good food.

Mosley: The good and the bad with Trysten Hill, I spoke with someone pretty high up in the Cowboys organization, and of course they're going to say nice things about Hill. 'very talented' 'could be very good' 'his skillset fits our scheme perfectly'

We then go to a GM in the NFL, someone I've known for a lot of years, and when asked directly about Hill, he simply responded with 'just a guy' The dreaded JAG. So, we've had just a guy, not sure he loves football and we've had 4th or 5th round pick to go along with some real positive things. That's the great thing about getting opinions across the spectrum and not just at the Star, who picked this guy and now have to sell the pick to the public.

I'm sure the Cowboys believe everything they say, obviously they like the guy, they're paying him millions of dollars to come in and be a defensive player, raise the performance of the defense and make them a perennial Super Bowl contender, that's their goal. Whether he's that or Taco Charlton, or worse, Ebenezer Ekuban or Shante carver, all remains to be determined by how well he plays. Marinelli put his stamp on this player and has a great reputation for defensive line talent. His rep probably exceeds any other coach in the league except perhaps Dante Scarnecia (Pats OL coach), to be the guru of his position.

This makes me feel.worse about the pick

 

[INCowboysFan]

That's what I'm saying if his tape and production were all world I can see the upside at least.

if his production was "all world" then he would have been a high 1st round pick, not there late in the 2nd.

 

[jrumann59]

I wonder what will happen if Garett and the rest of his coaching staff contracts are not renewed after the season. This is a cut throat business and coaches come a go.

Leads me to believe the next HC is already here, Richard maybe??

 

[CCBoy]

Great, these are the types of players we draft.

Sometimes, the staff actually do their homework...watch the guy work out, and talk intensely with them...for fit and faith in that player.

 

[conner01]

No, the consensus at the time was that we reached for Fred.

Other than Zeke, Fred was the last pick I had right.

 

[jrumann59]

What if he’s an All-Pro or the Unibomber?

Win-win!

That would make him Boom-Boom Hill???

 

[LittleD]

This is a huge boom or huge bust of a pick....

If this kid treats football like Gregory or Irving we can count this 2019 draft as a compete wash

We already have to write off that worthless Taco, right?

 

[TexasHillbilly]

I wonder what will happen if Garett and the rest of his coaching staff contracts are not renewed after the season. This is a cut throat business and coaches come a go.

Everyone will suffer the following season. It usually takes a good part of the season for major changes to take hold. Not always, but usually.

If a whole coaching staff gets fired, the players have to get used to a new system. It has an effect on all facets of the team. I say go for it. LOL