Richard - I think he's why we don't draft safeties

[kskboys]

I agree. He was a destroyer his first two seasons, at least. I don't remember his third season.
But something happened after then. It was the strangest, unexplained drop off I can ever remember seeing.

Easy answer. W/o Woodson, Roy was easily exploited in coverage. League was becoming more and more of a passing league, and Roy was basically a box S.

 

[kskboys]

I think our CB group is as good as it’s been in the last decade.

Problem is, we haven’t had a good S in the last decade so teams can still exploit the middle of the field on us with ease.

Yup.

CB's are rendered ineffective w/ no DL disruption and cover S's.

 

[OmerV]

What I'm saying is if we get pressure and ppl are open it wont equate to anything different

And if people are covered well but there is no pressure, the coverage won't hold up. Ultimately I think the theory is that if a QB has less time to throw the DBs don't have to maintain coverage as long.

 

[Hennessy_King]

And if people are covered well but there is no pressure, the coverage won't hold up. Ultimately I think the theory is that if a QB has less time to throw the DBs don't have to maintain coverage as long.

Absolutely if you are playing more press and taking away the short underneath stuff. Not our 7 yards off the ball garbage that marinelli covets

 

[Hennessy_King]

The first 3 years it appeared that Roy was the better player, then Woodson retired, Roy got fat and it went downhill from there.

The NFL also implemented the Horse-collar rule specifically because of RW and that seemed to psych him out.

RW was the hardest hitter without a running start that I've ever seen. In 1 or 2 steps he could unload into the ball carrier with more force than many players what had a 10 yard running start.

Yeh he gained weight wasn't as fast. And it definitely hampered him in coverage. He is proof that the traditional SS role is dead in this league. Every guy in the secondary needs to be able to cover.

 

[kskboys]

Yeh he gained weight wasn't as fast. And it definitely hampered him in coverage. He is proof that the traditional SS role is dead in this league. Every guy in the secondary needs to be able to cover.

Yup. People love them some Kam Chancellor and his big hitting ways, but the bottom line is that he's great at coverage, which easily trumps his hitting ability in today's NFL.

 

[kskboys]

And if people are covered well but there is no pressure, the coverage won't hold up. Ultimately I think the theory is that if a QB has less time to throw the DBs don't have to maintain coverage as long.

And if you start giving playoff QB's(Ahem, Brady) time, they will exploit any coverage. Look at what Nick Foles did to the Pats because they had no pass rush.

 

[OmerV]

Absolutely if you are playing more press and taking away the short underneath stuff. Not our 7 yards off the ball garbage that marinelli covets

The Cowboys didn't play that way this past season. With Richard as the DB coach (and with Jones and Awuzie at CB), they played a lot tighter at the line of scrimmage. One of the reasons Richard wasn't as fond of Lewis as a CB was his lack of size to press people at the line of scrimmage.

 

[OmerV]

And if you start giving playoff QB's(Ahem, Brady) time, they will exploit any coverage. Look at what Nick Foles did to the Pats because they had no pass rush.

Exactly. The thought has generally been that even average QB's will beat a defense if given enough time to find receivers.

 

[408Cowboy]

Dude’s been a DC assistant coach for ONE flippin’ season and he’s why we don’t draft safeties??!?

 

[lostar2009]

I understand not spending a premium pick on a safety unless he is ET or EB level. But the fact they ignore the safety position so much in the draft and FA it's crazy. You can't tell me none of those guys drafted or in FA is not better than Heath.

 

[John813]

Yeh he gained weight wasn't as fast. And it definitely hampered him in coverage. He is proof that the traditional SS role is dead in this league. Every guy in the secondary needs to be able to cover.

I just think the passion wasn't there any more after he literally blew up the league.
Had he stayed lean, and not "been a biscuit away from a LB" I think he could of been an effective "traditional SS".
Talent was there. Heart wasn't.

He also went from that Troy Polamalu "I do what I want in the secondary" when he had Woodson next to him to being asked to do more in terms of coverage. We went from Woody to Lynn Scott, Tony Dixon, Keith Davis among many other duds.

Anywho, water way under the bridge into the ocean by now.

 

[HoplessCowboysFan36]

We played the saints in the playoffs?

And playing them during the regular season doing exactly what you said we do not do no longer counts? I dint realize the regular season doesnt matter like the NBA..

 

[HoplessCowboysFan36]

With the type of DBs we now like to have. They play in your face and physical. It works, but can be prone to giving up big plays.. but you need time in the pocket to make big plays... so we need an elite pass rush.. We are putting that together and people are mad about it... Makes no sense.. Now I want to see a superbowl just so I can see what yall have to complain about next.

 

[Hennessy_King]

With the type of DBs we now like to have. They play in your face and physical. It works, but can be prone to giving up big plays.. but you need time in the pocket to make big plays... so we need an elite pass rush.. We are putting that together and people are mad about it... Makes no sense.. Now I want to see a superbowl just so I can see what yall have to complain about next.

Considering we play a more zone bend but dont break keep everything in front of you scheme. I dont think that's changing regardless of who rushes the passer. Unless marinelli gets blown out

 

[kskboys]

I understand not spending a premium pick on a safety unless he is ET or EB level. But the fact they ignore the safety position so much in the draft and FA it's crazy. You can't tell me none of those guys drafted or in FA is not better than Heath.

We keep drafting straightline athletes and/or box S's. We simply don't look for cover S's. Stupid.

 

[lostar2009]

We keep drafting straightline athletes and/or box S's. We simply don't look for cover S's. Stupid.

I could understand when we had Sensi. He was very solid and good at times but never great. But Heath is a borderline NFL average safety. Their was so many proven cheap veteran FA safties out there this year and in the draft. I was sure this was the year we got one. Heath has been over utilize and should be no more than a special teams player and back up safety. Heath should see no more than 10 snaps a game to give the starter a breather!!! I guarantee Heath would start on no other team in the NFL.

 

[eromeopolk]

I like Richard's philosophy for the secondary. SS in the box, CBs playing press and underneath, FS protecting all over the top.

This strategy calls for and *allows* bigger, stronger, longer, but maybe not so fast, at all DB positions but FS. That's also *cheaper* at all positions but FS.

If an Earl Thomas comes along for FS, we might try for him. We did, in fact. But I doubt any of the safeties at 58 and beyond were supposed to be Earl.

Looking at the guys we took, I see size and *long arms*, and guys we didn't have to spend premium picks on.
CB - Mike Jackson - 6-1 32 1/2
SS - Donovan Wilson - 6-0 33 3/8
CB - Mike Westry - 6-4 33 3/4

Everything is going exactly as planned. Teams thinking we were going to pick a safety high served our interests.

But not taking strong safeties or CBs early is a feature and benefit of a Richard secondary. Get used to it.

EDIT: I would change the title to "Richard - Not picking SSs or CBs early is a feature, not a bug"

It did not start with Kris Richard. It is the nature of a 4-3 Defense. Safeties in a 4/3 do not have man on man responsibilities like a 3/4 D where OLB blitz. That is why Roy Williams went from All Pro to cast off when Parcells went 4/3 to 3/4 D. 4/3 D safeties are allowed to read the game in front of them, then react and make to play.

Look at all the safeties in Cowboys history only one true safety was drafted in the 1st or 2nd round. Every Pro Bowler, All Pro, and Ring of Honor S was either a UDFA, trade player, or conversion player. If you want to talk about conversion player to S see Charlie Waters CB to S, Darren Woodson LB to S, and my favorite and most underrated not in the ROH S, Cornell Green, basketball player to S.

Only special football safeties should be drafted in the first round by a 4/3 D. Roy Williams, Eric Berry, Ken Easley, Ronnie Lott, and Ed Reed types. When you see one in college, He sticks out like a sore thumb on the hand...example Darwin James is the only one I can think of in the last 5 years.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

You know it's funny, I've been around this board for a long time. I've seen this team go from scheme to scheme. I remember when the entire board wanted to draft Roy Williams, and while I really liked Roy (even though he played for OU), I never wanted to draft him. I just believed that the NFL was changing and that his game was not long for the road. Suffice to say that I was standing on a island, pretty much by myself, in those days.

Be that as it may, it was not so long ago that we didn't believe in this idea of single high, pressure coverage with the Corners and creating push to make the QB get rid of the ball. For a long time, we believed in playing interchangeable Safeties. I never really liked that much but that's what we did for a long time. We've only really changed that recently. Used to be that we didn't play that style. Used to be that way played a more traditional Box Safety and a Single high or Free Safety over the top. That's what we did When Coach Landry was our HC. I personally always liked that style way more then the idea of playing interchangeable Safeties. Always kinda hated that scheme to be honest. It's true that you need a really good athlete to play Free but hey, go find one.

 

[Doomsday101]

I think safety position was in play but they choose to go with help along the DL with Hill at DT tackle. I can promise you had Dallas selected Safety just as many people would be hollering as they have recently about Dallas not addressing the DT spot. I figured Dallas would go safety or DT in this draft and in the end had a choice between 2 guys they liked and took Hill.