Twitter: Helman makes his case for Dak as 4th highest paid QB

[McKDaddy]

The Dak contract price should be no surprise to anyone paying attention to what NFL teams pay for the QB position. Even a guy like Sam Bradford, who has never done anything other than haul $129 million in earnings for having an 18-30-1 record as a starter and never even winning a playoff game.

So anyone saying Dak, with three straight winning seasons, two division titles and a playoff win isn’t worth tying up in a multi-year contract at market value is simply not paying any attention to the NFL market for QBs. Count me among those who are glad Dak Prescott will here for a while...at good market value.

Can't you pay closer to market value for a middle of the pack QB rather than top 4? Or let him play out his contract & see where his market value is at that time. Aren't those the real questions that would best serve the interests of the team as a whole?

 

[Bobhaze]

Can't you pay closer to market value for a middle of the pack QB rather than top 4? Or let him play out his contract & see where his market value is at that time. Aren't those the real questions that would best serve the interests of the team as a whole?

It doesn’t work that way in the NFL. So what does the team do if they “low ball” Dak and he refuses to sign for a less than market value offer at the end of this year? If Dak has a good season, his value will go up even more. He then leaves in a yr as a FA and some other team will pay him big bucks at what the market has dictated. Even average QBs in this league get paid big money.

Then...Who would be the next starting QB? Even mediocre QBs are not that easy to find. Mike White? He hasn’t even flashed potential yet. Even good backup QBs don’t grow on trees and aren’t easily available in a trade. Besides, like it or not as a fan, this team is going to sign Dak to what it considers a good deal for the team.

Dak Prescott has led this team to 2 division titles and a playoff win in 3 seasons. Some of our fans may think “meh” about that but I guarantee you this FO, and the rest of the league have a much higher opinion.

 

[TexasHillbilly]

Why does it always feel like people are trying to convince themselves they like Dak in these threads? I won't dispute any of the compliments to him, mainly because they're mostly right, but you never see people profusely soapboxing their QB's 'intangibles' on any other board. Are you guys building a defensive imaginary wall for when the naysayers come in? Like shielding this thread, is that it?



Like this, for example. What does this even mean? Rex Grossman was all this, and he went to a super bowl. Are you saying you'd be proud if Dak was the next Rex Grossman? Of course not. So why even post this?

And the Dak vs Romo stuff. Who cares? Romo is retired, and he's not coming back. Dak has no competition right now, so it doesn't matter how much you need to convince anybody he's great. He's the QB one way or the other.

It's just banter. Gives folks something to talk about. For or against it doesn't matter. We (Cowboy fans) care. Come on man. Don't come in here bashing what we talk about.

I see what you are saying but it won't stop all the posts about our qb no matter what anyone says. That's just the way it is and always has been.

 

[DasSchnitzel]

You don't have to let him get to the open market. You could tag him.

To me, if you are totally OK with signing Dak for say $28-30MM now, then you should have no problem paying him $33-35MM next year if he plays this year out under his existing deal and has a great season.

If I'm willing to sign him now for 29 or later for 33, and I have the cap space to handle signing now, why would I want to wait a year just to watch his price go up and sign him anyway?

And then if you factor in a year under the tag, now we're probably talking 35ish or more by 2020, especially if he has more playoff success.

I understand being apprehensive to commit to a guy but the situation only gets worse the longer we wait. Same thing happened with DLaw. DLaw is probably averaging 3M less at least if Dallas simply agreed to terms before using the tag back in 2018.

Granted, there were good reasons to make him prove it one more year, and the same could be said here about Dak. So I understand where you're coming from, but I respectfully disagree. I'm firmly in the buy now and save category because I see no likely reality where Dak is not a Cowboy for the foreseeable future. And if that's true, the longer we wait, the more painful the price tag gets.

 

[Stash]

I think Helman will eventually be prove right.

I think that this thing is going to come in at about $30 million a year, say 5 years, $150 million. And I know that those are crazy numbers and I know that they're a lot more than many fans want to pay. Heck, it's much more than what I'd like to pay. But the more I see, hear, and read, the more I think that's where the numbers will end up.

In looking at the deals below Matt Ryan (who has been to and should have won a Super Bowl) and I believe was an MVP, there are unproven guys like Garropolo and proven losers like Kirk Couisns making $27.5 and $28 million respectively. Those are the deals that push this thing up and Dak is better and more proven than both of them. Based on that, $30 million is his range. That's the market right now.

But what I also expect is for the team to protect themselves in the deal just like they did with Lawrence's contract. The player will get a lot of money up front, and essentially have three years of the deal fully guaranteed. But the team will get their option on the back end to discontinue it if things go south.

But if things go as well as everyone obviously hopes for, by that third year (and hopefully a Championship or two), it will feel like a bargain.

 

[McKDaddy]

It doesn’t work that way in the NFL. So what does the team do if they “low ball” Dak and he refuses to sign for a less than market value offer at the end of this year? He then leaves in a yr as a FA and some other team will pay him big bucks at what the market has dictated. Even average QBs in this league get big money

Then...Who would be the next starting QB? Even mediocre QBs are not that easy to find. Mike White? He hasn’t even flashed potential yet. Even good backup QBs don’t grow on trees and aren’t easily available in a trade. Besides, like it or not as a fan, this team is going to sign Dak to what it considers a good deal for the team.

Dak Prescott has led this team to 2 division titles and a playoff win in 3 seasons. Some of our fans may think “meh” about that but I guarantee you this FO, and the rest of the league have a much higher opinion.

You don't have to offer him anything now. He doesn't get to decide what happens at the end of next season. The team still has the power to 1) make a better offer 2)franchise him or 3) let him hit FA. The only power he would have would be whether or not to accept option 1.

I agree that finding a QB who can help your team be a SB contender isn't easy. But just paying a guy top money because he is the best you have right now isn't the right answer. It straps the team to that one player for at least the next 5 years. That is an acceptable cost of doing business IF the guy is talented enough on his own to make players around him better. IF he is a guy who needs overwhelming talent around him to be competitive for division titles, playoff berths, it is not.

 

[Mr_437]

All have one or two years left on current contract:

Wentz
Goff
Newton
Rivers
Winston
Maritoa
Eli (maybe)

Cam, Wentz n Goff get paid...their young, Top 2 draft picks, face of franchise guys and have lead SB teams (*Wentz). They get paid top dollar.

Then you got old guys like Rivers n Manning who have young backups the teams can play without breaking the bank on guys close to retirement. Not paying these guys, move on.

Winston n Mariota...hit the FA market.

What are the skills Dak brings to the QB position? Nobody wants to hear "intangibles", "leader" unless it's accompanied by accuracy, quick release, reads the field. C'mon fellas those things are starting to sound like generic default descriptions. What do you see in his game? Just interested to hear...

 

[Bobhaze]

You don't have to offer him anything now. He doesn't get to decide what happens at the end of next season. The team still has the power to 1) make a better offer 2)franchise him or 3) let him hit FA. The only power he would have would be whether or not to accept option 1.

I agree that finding a QB who can help your team be a SB contender isn't easy. But just paying a guy top money because he is the best you have right now isn't the right answer. It straps the team to that one player for at least the next 5 years. That is an acceptable cost of doing business IF the guy is talented enough on his own to make players around him better. IF he is a guy who needs overwhelming talent around him to be competitive for division titles, playoff berths, it is not.

There is some logic to your argument in a regular business setting But the NFL is not a normal business. Most NFL FOs don’t operate that way when it comes to keeping what they consider a franchise QB. Besides, if Dak has a career year next year, it will costs the team a ton more to keep him. They believe as most NFL FOs do, that signing Dak at 25 to a “market value” deal now will be more economical and team friendly than waiting.

 

[Sydla]

If I'm willing to sign him now for 29 or later for 33, and I have the cap space to handle signing now, why would I want to wait a year just to watch his price go up and sign him anyway?

And then if you factor in a year under the tag, now we're probably talking 35ish or more by 2020, especially if he has more playoff success.

I understand being apprehensive to commit to a guy but the situation only gets worse the longer we wait. Same thing happened with DLaw. DLaw is probably averaging 3M less at least if Dallas simply agreed to terms before using the tag back in 2018.

Granted, there were good reasons to make him prove it one more year, and the same could be said here about Dak. So I understand where you're coming from, but I respectfully disagree. I'm firmly in the buy now and save category because I see no likely reality where Dak is not a Cowboy for the foreseeable future. And if that's true, the longer we wait, the more painful the price tag gets.

Because with another season under your belt, you have a better idea of what kind of QB he is and will be.

You and I just differ on this. I'd rather have to overpay a bit a year from now knowing he took the next step as a QB in this league than sign him for nearly $30MM now and he goes out and just has another blah season, the team gets bounced early or doesn't make the playoffs and now I am staring at a 4-5 year window where my starting QB is just an average QB eating up 12-15% of the cap.

 

[OmerV]

Can't you pay closer to market value for a middle of the pack QB rather than top 4? Or let him play out his contract & see where his market value is at that time. Aren't those the real questions that would best serve the interests of the team as a whole?

A contract that gets him around the top 4-5 is current market value. Remember, being paid in the top 4-5 at his position is not a position ranking, it's just a reflection of the market at the time the contract is negotiated.

 

[Roadtrip635]

You don't have to offer him anything now. He doesn't get to decide what happens at the end of next season. The team still has the power to 1) make a better offer 2)franchise him or 3) let him hit FA. The only power he would have would be whether or not to accept option 1.

I agree that finding a QB who can help your team be a SB contender isn't easy. But just paying a guy top money because he is the best you have right now isn't the right answer. It straps the team to that one player for at least the next 5 years. That is an acceptable cost of doing business IF the guy is talented enough on his own to make players around him better. IF he is a guy who needs overwhelming talent around him to be competitive for division titles, playoff berths, it is not.

Every QB needs talent around him to be competitive. Even as great as Brees is, the Saints went 7-9, 4 out of 5 years before getting Thomas and Kamara in the draft. He's also had Sean Peyton as his HC. I'm not comparing Dak to Brees, just showing it takes a whole team, not just a good piece or two. Just because the media over hypes the QB position doesn't mean they are the ones winning games on their own. Looking at our last two playoff losses, it wasn't the QB position that let the team down, it was the defense.

 

[northerncowboynation]

Just me but he nails it IMO ( several fans/posters been preaching all THREE )

I like the last sentence of Hellmans tweet... "you don't have to like but no one cares that you don't"... I've wanted to say that a few times. Thanks Hellmans Mayo and thanks Hawk

 

[Idgit]

How unique?

If I’m making a linear list of QBs in the league in terms of their leadership skills the way we like to do with every other QB skill around here, he’s in my top 3.

 

[817Gill]

It might not change for the better.

But in my mind, I'd rather pay a $4-5MM premium after seeing him kill in 2019, then hand over a $28MM AAV contract now and Dak goes out and plays like a just above average QB in 2019. Then you are looking at a scenario where you now are paying a QB that wouldn't be a Top 10 QB a Top 4-5 contract.

That's not smart no matter how many ways you guys want to slice it.

I am not opposed to paying Dak. I am opposed to doing it now.

It comes down to how high of a bar people set on him. People wanna see HOFer before signing someone, the projection is what teams look at. If you look at his career so far theres nothing that suggests he cannot perform when the team is intact. When the team isn’t decimated by injury or getting stuck in neutral by a coaching staff who thought Allen Hurns was a #1, Dak has statistically and impactfully had been a top 7-10 guy.


For those who are sold by 2/3 division titles, a 32-16 record, 2 pro bowls, and elite intangibles; it’s much more likely Dak goes out in 2019 and plays as good or better than what he’s exhibited so far. When you believe that like many fans and the FO do, you sign Dak now because you know his play will warrant a contract 5-7M more, just like the D-Law situation; team could had him for 17, but decided they wanted to see if he could do it again. They ended up going up to 21M.

If you’re one of those who needs to see even more than what Dak has already shown in 3 years, then you’re gonna have a fundamental problem understanding why he’s getting paid now rather than later.

 

[Sydla]

If I’m making a linear list of QBs in the league in terms of their leadership skills the way we like to do with every other QB skill around here, he’s in my top 3.

And who would be the other two? I am generally curious now.

 

[Sydla]

It comes down to how high of a bar people set on him. People wanna see HOFer before signing someone, the projection is what teams look at. If you look at his career so far theres nothing that suggests he cannot perform when the team is intact. When the team isn’t decimated by injury or getting stuck in neutral by a coaching staff who thought Allen Hurns was a #1, Dak has statistically and impactfully had been a top 7-10 guy.


For those who are sold by 2/3 division titles, a 32-16 record, 2 pro bowls, and elite intangibles; it’s much more likely Dak goes out in 2019 and plays as good or better than what he’s exhibited so far. When you believe that like many fans and the FO do, you sign Dak now because you know his play will warrant a contract 5-7M more, just like the D-Law situation; team could had him for 17, but decided they wanted to see if he could do it again. They ended up going up to 21M.

If you’re one of those who needs to see even more than what Dak has already shown in 3 years, then you’re gonna have a fundamental problem understanding why he’s getting paid now rather than later.

The Lawrence comparison somewhat fails. Lawrence, in 2017, showed himself to be one of the 2-3 best DEs in football. In order to make him one of the 2-3 highest paid DEs, they were willing to tag him and see if he could repeat it.

Prescott, one could argue, might not even be a Top 10 QB and yet people are willing to make him one of the 3-4 highest paid QBs in football right now (under a flawed premise that it's OK to overpay now because it won't seem like an overpay 4 years from now). The comparisons aren't quite the same.

And frankly, I am perfectly content with how the Cowboys handled Lawrence given his history (injuries, etc.) and I think it would be beyond prudent to see which way Dak trends this year before making a $150MM+ financial commitment to him. I think in both cases, it's worthwhile to have to cough up a few million more per year to give yourself more comfort in the kind of player you are getting.

It's an odd thing to me actually. People are so willing to give Dak $29-30MM now but are worried that it might cost you $34MM next year if he plays well? If he proves himself to be great, then he deserves that contract.

 

[817Gill]

If I'm willing to sign him now for 29 or later for 33, and I have the cap space to handle signing now, why would I want to wait a year just to watch his price go up and sign him anyway?

And then if you factor in a year under the tag, now we're probably talking 35ish or more by 2020, especially if he has more playoff success.

I understand being apprehensive to commit to a guy but the situation only gets worse the longer we wait. Same thing happened with DLaw. DLaw is probably averaging 3M less at least if Dallas simply agreed to terms before using the tag back in 2018.

Granted, there were good reasons to make him prove it one more year, and the same could be said here about Dak. So I understand where you're coming from, but I respectfully disagree. I'm firmly in the buy now and save category because I see no likely reality where Dak is not a Cowboy for the foreseeable future. And if that's true, the longer we wait, the more painful the price tag gets.

Perfect

 

[817Gill]

There is some logic to your argument in a regular business setting But the NFL is not a normal business. Most NFL FOs don’t operate that way when it comes to keeping what they consider a franchise QB. Besides, if Dak has a career year next year, it will costs the team a ton more to keep him. They believe as most NFL FOs do, that signing Dak at 25 to a “market value” deal now will be more economical and team friendly than waiting.

Just like R.Wilsons first deal was scrutinized for some of the same reasons Dak is (game-manager, product of a well-rounded talented team).

After a year or two, Wilson’s deal was a steal.

 

[ESisback]

does this guy even think before he opens his mouth ?
god how i hate this stupid bargain in 18 months talk.

you can make this argument every season.

I HATE that argument too, but it’s reality. The money is freakin’ NUTS, and it’s escalating. And there’s no way to stop it, short of tearing everything down and starting over.

 

[817Gill]

The Lawrence comparison somewhat fails. Lawrence, in 2017, showed himself to be one of the 2-3 best DEs in football. In order to make him one of the 2-3 highest paid DEs, they were willing to tag him and see if he could repeat it.

Prescott, one could argue, might not even be a Top 10 QB and yet people are willing to make him one of the 3-4 highest paid QBs in football right now (under a flawed premise that it's OK to overpay now because it won't seem like an overpay 4 years from now). The comparisons aren't quite the same.

And frankly, I am perfectly content with how the Cowboys handled Lawrence given his history (injuries, etc.) and I think it would be beyond prudent to see which way Dak trends this year before making a $150MM+ financial commitment to him. I think in both cases, it's worthwhile to have to cough up a few million more per year to give yourself more comfort in the kind of player you are getting.

It's an odd thing to me actually. People are so willing to give Dak $29-30MM now but are worried that it might cost you $34MM next year if he plays well? If he proves himself to be great, then he deserves that contract.

Ah good try buddy but this argument has been debunked already. Being a top 10 qb is much more valuable than being a top 5 DE. The importance of the position and the rarity of people who can do it causes the QB market to be played different and QB’s to be valued differently.

As for your second part, waiting on D-Law wasn’t a terrible decision because he had injury concerns, remember he had 8 sacks in year 2, they weren’t worried about his work ethic/talent/ potential. So you kinda bite the bullet there with the extra money being paid.

But as I said in my original response, for those of us who believe Dak has more room to grow, and understand his work ethic and preparation bode well for that projection; we have no concerns about his ability and growth. And since he’s so durable obviously no one is questioning that like with D-Law.

Why not save 5-7M, when you know you have multiple guys needing new deals and every dollar counts?