Twitter: Helman makes his case for Dak as 4th highest paid QB

[Idgit]

And those two are lifters, they make the offense better around them. Prescott isn't a lifter yet but he could be. All he has to do is get the ball in his playmakers' hands and he comes with the added benefit of being able to run and needs to use that more to keep the DC honest.

I disagree that Prescott isn’t a lifter as you’re describing it. His issue has been that he goes into the tank under consistent pressure and legs it affect him the rest of the game whether the protection improves or not. But in terms of getting points when you absolutely have to have them, he gets them more than just about everybody else.

 

[StuckMojo]

I understand your point, and part of me feels the same. But we also have to recognize the team leadership can and apparently does have a different perspective. They know Dak much better than we do, they work with him in practice, they are aware of every incremental improvement, they study game film, they see his intangibles in action etc .. so it's natural that they have formed a more solid opinion than those of us that watch on TV and listen to or read media reports. All the team leaders can do is act on what they see and believe. I can't fault that.

The same leadership that has not come close to winning a Super Bowl in 23 years?

 

[Toruk_Makto]

Dak will be a bargain when another 4 - 8 QB contracts happen at higher prices 2 years from now.

That's not how the word "bargain" work.

You get a bargain when you buy something for less than max value.

It's not hey I bought these shoes at full price. Future shoes may be more expensive. YUGE SAVINGS! MEGA-BARGAIN!

 

[Toruk_Makto]

All have one or two years left on current contract:

Wentz
Goff
Newton
Rivers
Winston
Maritoa
Eli (maybe)

Rivers will get a healthy short extension.

Goff will get paid big.

Who else on this list is certain to help reshape the market? Newton Wentz and Mariota have regressed and have injury concerns. It's unclear the Bucs love and trust Winston. Lol Eli

 

[Direwolf63]

That’s not the logic though. The logic is that’s the price of doing business today, and you can’t compete if you want to pay the prices of the past.

A person can dislike the price of quality a car in today’s world, but if that person won’t pay today’s prices he is going to have to settle for the base model Hyundai

But would you pay Ferrari prices for that Hyundai?

Average QB's should get paid average money. Elite QB's should get paid elite money.

Paying average QB's elite money is not a good idea. But that's what is going to happen in this case.

 

[cern]

I think dak has been hamstrung by having to run plays called in by linehan. yet during desperation times when linehan had no choice but to open up in the fourth quarter, dak's performances have been nothing short of impressive as evidenced by come from behind fourth quarter victories.

 

[Pantone282C]

Just me but he nails it IMO ( several fans/posters been preaching all THREE )

I like Prescott. His teammates would walk on coals for him. Not sure he is deserving of 4th highest contract based on the usual performance stats. But, he has taken us to the playoffs in two of three seasons, and he is a magician in games at times. He has many intangibles, including leadership and durability. While there is no argument that he needs some work on pocket presence and ball placement, he shows that he is adaptable and is still improving. Some of the problems are not his entirely.
The money is a moot point given the market and his success over QBs that are paid more and perform less.
So, if he gets a chunk of change, it's not a bad thing, strictly speaking. We sure don't have control over it, and he is good enough to root for. I think he will improve and take us further.
Just my humble opinion.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

That's not how the word "bargain" work.

You get a bargain when you buy something for less than max value.

It's not hey I bought these shoes at full price. Future shoes may be more expensive. YUGE SAVINGS! MEGA-BARGAIN!

LOL..... it's funny you say this. I was reading through this thread and I was thinking much the same. There is no concept, it seems, of what a "bargain" is.

If you buy a Car and you pay book value for it, a newer car will come out the next year and it may cost more but do you look back and say, "Boy I really got a deal! I paid book and I'm still driving around in a car I'm making the same payments on, boy did I get a deal?"

Good times.....

 

[mattjames2010]

Foles?

He was popular but I'd hardly put him in this situation where he's one of the three best leaders in the NFL. He was actually not exactly a big hit when in LA. Some people thought he was kind of aloof, almost in a Sam Bradford kind of way.

I think a guy like Brees and even Phillip Rivers are much better leaders than Nick Foles and Prescott.

Foles actually contemplated retirement and stated his heart wasn't in it while with LA.

 

[cern]

roethlesberger has "openly" contemplated retirement over the years only to get a raise that caused his decontemplation. (PL) same for gronk a time or two. Marshawn lynch a time or two. there have been others. even our own Jason witten contemplated and later decontemplated retirement. but we still think of him as a leader.

 

[Sydla]

Again the difference starts with how one views Dak. If you’re in the same camp as the FO, you believe Dak is the guy and will keep improving and being the leader you know he is, then there is no logic in waiting. It’s simply waiting to pay more money for something you would have been fine buying for cheaper.

As for what Goff and Wentz would make, the high in the market right now is 34 for Russ. Wentz and Goff would both top that and if you dispute that then you’re back to not understanding how the qb market works. 36-38M will be what those guys see, if indeed Dak plays well next year he’ll be asking for more, putting him at or near 40M.

No reason to pay that extra money whatsoever, if you’re sold on Dak. Since you’re not sold, you won’t agree with the FO decision until you are sold on Dak. Until then, I hope you see the clear logical basis for signing him now if you’re sold like the FO is.

If Goff or Wentz sign this offseason, there is zero chance either gets more than Wilson. Now if Goff or Wentz are made to play out this season and have fantastic years, it's possible.

People keep assuming that each QB that signs just ups the ante but that's not necessarily the case. If Carson Wentz goes out and has a good but not great year and the Eagles are good but not great, I think there is close to a zero chance he gets a deal more than Wilson's AAV of $34MM unless it has shadow money built into it.

 

[Sydla]

roethlesberger has "openly" contemplated retirement over the years only to get a raise that caused his decontemplation. (PL) same for gronk a time or two. Marshawn lynch a time or two. there have been others. even our own Jason witten contemplated and later decontemplated retirement. but we still think of him as a leader.

Is this is a refutation of the Foles comment from above?

I think it's pretty preposterous to suggest that Nick Foles and Tom Brady are from the came cloth and great leaders.

There is zero comparison. Again, Foles has really never had a reputation of being a great leader.......... great teammate? Sure. He's pretty likable from all accounts but he's never really been thought of as this team leader type cut from the same cloth as guys like Brady.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

roethlesberger has "openly" contemplated retirement over the years only to get a raise that caused his decontemplation. (PL) same for gronk a time or two. Marshawn lynch a time or two. there have been others. even our own Jason witten contemplated and later decontemplated retirement. but we still think of him as a leader.

I think that there is a difference there. A lot of the guys you name here are, IMO, doing it to get a better paycheck. Witten, I think he's doing it because he believes that the Cowboys could win a Championship. He's not making more money then he was prior to retiring. In 2017, he was making over 7 mil, this year I think he is signed for 2 mil with another 2 mil roster bonus if he makes the team at the designation period. He's not even making more then he was on TV so I do kinda look at it differently, in his case. Overall though, I do agree with your general premise.

 

[cern]

Is this is a refutation of the Foles comment from above?

I think it's pretty preposterous to suggest that Nick Foles and Tom Brady are from the came cloth and great leaders.

There is zero comparison. Again, Foles has really never had a reputation of being a great leader.......... great teammate? Sure. He's pretty likable from all accounts but he's never really been thought of as this team leader type cut from the same cloth as guys like Brady.

I made no mention of brady.

 

[cern]

I think that there is a difference there. A lot of the guys you name here are, IMO, doing it to get a better paycheck. Witten, I think he's doing it because he believes that the Cowboys could win a Championship. He's not making more money then he was prior to retiring. In 2017, he was making over 7 mil, this year I think he is signed for 2 mil with another 2 mil roster bonus if he makes the team at the designation period. He's not even making more then he was on TV so I do kinda look at it differently, in his case. Overall though, I do agree with your general premise.

I'm merely suggesting people consider career changes and later change their minds.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

I'm merely suggesting people consider career changes and later change their minds.

I understand. That is why I said that I agree with you in general.

 

[OmerV]

But would you pay Ferrari prices for that Hyundai?

Average QB's should get paid average money. Elite QB's should get paid elite money.

Paying average QB's elite money is not a good idea. But that's what is going to happen in this case.

That analogy doesn't make sense because $28-30 million is not "Ferrari prices" for a QB in today's market. It's more like a high end Ford or GM model. The Ferrari level QBs (Rogers/Ben/Brees etc) would command much higher prices than $28-30\0 million if they were negotiating in today's market.

 

[Toruk_Makto]

That analogy doesn't make sense because $28-30 million is not "Ferrari prices" for a QB in today's market. It's more like a high end Ford or GM model. The Ferrari level QBs (Rogers/Ben/Brees etc) would command much higher prices than $28-30\0 million if they were negotiating in today's market.

30mm is a Ford.

What a time to be alive.

*also what a ridiculous premise suggesting a top 4 contract is a Ford sedan*

 

[lk8701]

He doesn’t deserve a bigger contract than Foles.

 

[OmerV]

30mm is a Ford.

What a time to be alive.

*also what a ridiculous premise suggesting a top 4 contract is a Ford sedan*

You are making the mistake of confusing current market value with QB rankings. They are not the same. Being paid in the top 4 among QB's is not the same as ranking him as one of the top 4 QBs. It just means he is negotiating a contract at a different point in time and under different market conditions as some QB's who might be better players. If those QBs were negotiating a new contract in today's market they might be getting $35-40 million.