Deep Threat WRs and Kellen Moore's Offense

[Kaiser]

In the Cowboys Superbowl years they had a speed guy #80 and a big body #88. So we are now missing that big body 50-50 ball guy, that excels in the redzone. Speed is only half the battle. IMO.

Still got to score in the redzone.

Witten and to a lesser degree Gallup are the big body guys. Potentially Jarwin too.

Redzone is more about the running game and the other guys like Amari Cooper are weapons in the Red Zone too.

 

[Kaiser]

Teams were sitting on our wideouts and daring us to beat them deep since 2017. Our lack of success in taking that dare has been the fundamental problem hampering the offense.

They were sitting on the underneath routes and the running game. My main point is that teams can't do that if you have a Desean Jackson type on the field that can turn one bad read into getting two yards behind the DB for a quick touchdown. Jackson basically runs three routes but he has been in the NFL for 11 seasons with 53 TDs.

My point is the "take the top off the defense" type of WRs. Amari Cooper is that type of threat and both Gallup and Cobb are guys that are not, but can still get deep. Last year Hurns clearly was not and the other guys like Deonte Thompson and Brice Butler could - but they were one dimensional players that defenses didn't have to account for. Beasley could't get deep with a rental car and a week to do it.

My point is that you could see 4 WR sets where you have 2 - 4 guys with that kind of deep speed. Amari lined up with Tavon Austin and a third guy like Reggie Davis or Jon'Vea Johnson and its a safety's nightmare.

 

[Kaiser]

Though we used him as a deep threat, Gallup doesn't have the size or speed for it. I expect him to lose some snaps in the base offense to put a true deep threat out there in his stead. If we have one. We have a lot of fast guys, but we'll have to see if any of that speed can play.

Gallup's combine time was a 4.45, he doesn't have elite speed but he is still a deep threat. Especially if you have two or three other guys faster than him that a defense has to account for.

 

[Kaiser]

I cant remember what the defense was against the Giants in the last game we played them but it was beautiful, and simple in how they baited the safeties with underneath routes and Jarwin zoomed upfield, had a monster game basically doing what we never did all year. "Where the hell has that been?" And you don't just need TEs for that, you can use anyone in 11 or 10 personnel.

Couldn't agree more with your post and the reason the Giants game was so different was that Kellen Moore was calling the plays. It was basically his audition for the OC role. And with Zeke and four starting OL out of the game, Dak still put up 450 yards passing.

 

[Kaiser]

What scares me is all those years as a back up and QB coach KM never did anything to greatly improve the O and no one ever heard how great he was.

I think you missed with three million news articles where Dak Prescott called him a genius and said he was a huge factor in his rookie season going so well. Kellen Moore has be talked about as highly intelligent and a future coach going back to his High School career.

 

[Kaiser]

Hoping we drop some deep passes early in the season and get opposing defenses out of run blitzes and have to respect our deeper stuff. That would change our Offense and give us a great dynamic.

They certainly stocked up on fast backup WRs. And when defenses can't cheat against the underneath routes, they will still have to respect the play action fake. That's a play Dak and Zeke execute very well.

And the main thing is the OL will be back together that regularly gave Dak five seconds to throw in 2016.

 

[glimmerman]

They certainly stocked up on fast backup WRs. And when defenses can't cheat against the underneath routes, they will still have to respect the play action fake. That's a play Dak and Zeke execute very well.

And the main thing is the OL will be back together that regularly gave Dak five seconds to throw in 2016.

It’s adding up to be a better year than last. And that was with Linehan calling the plays. If Moore is a improvement then we are gonna have a good year.

 

[percyhoward]

Still got to score in the redzone.

Absolutely. We should be throwing deep more often, and it's fun to speculate about it, but that's not the real problem with this offense.

There were 1,293 offensive TD scored in 2018, and 966 of those were scored from the red zone. That's 75% of your touchdowns that have nothing whatsoever to do with the deep ball, other than a deep completion possibly setting up a red zone possession. But this offense had no problem getting enough red zone possessions The problem was punching it in.

2018, after Cooper trade
Yards per Drive
1 Steelers
2 Saints
3 Colts
4 Patriots
5 Chiefs
6 Falcons
7 Cowboys

Red Zone TD%
25 Giants
26 Dolphins
27 Lions
28 Vikings
29 Cowboys
30 Jaguars
31 Ravens
32 49ers

 

[Oz-of-Cowboy-Country]

Witten and to a lesser degree Gallup are the big body guys. Potentially Jarwin too.

Redzone is more about the running game and the other guys like Amari Cooper are weapons in the Red Zone too.

Just rewatched the week 17 game against the Giants. Jarwin had three TD's in that game. So there is a part of me that hopes Witten is not a starter. Jarwin can stretch the field and is a threat in the redzone.

The connection between Dak and Gallup should be better this year too. So we should do better this year in the redzone.

 

[ChuckA1]

Boy, we sucked in the red zone!

 

[Oz-of-Cowboy-Country]

Absolutely. We should be throwing deep more often, and it's fun to speculate about it, but that's not the real problem with this offense.

There were 1,293 offensive TD scored in 2018, and 966 of those were scored from the red zone. That's 75% of your touchdowns that have nothing whatsoever to do with the deep ball, other than a deep completion possibly setting up a red zone possession. But this offense had no problem getting enough red zone possessions The problem was punching it in.

2018, after Cooper trade
Yards per Drive
1 Steelers
2 Saints
3 Colts
4 Patriots
5 Chiefs
6 Falcons
7 Cowboys

Red Zone TD%
25 Giants
26 Dolphins
27 Lions
28 Vikings
29 Cowboys
30 Jaguars
31 Ravens
32 49ers

That stat line tells it all. Thanks for posting that. --- Pryor to last year, the only receivers Dak had a whole year of experience with were Beasley and Brown. So with the offensive line being back healthy and the added experience with Dak and his WR's we should be better in the red zone this year.

 

[CF74]

From our 15 to their 35, just a flick of the wrist....

 

[buybuydandavis]

Gallup's combine time was a 4.45, he doesn't have elite speed but he is still a deep threat. Especially if you have two or three other guys faster than him that a defense has to account for.

4.51. You can go deep at 4.51, but CBs aren't going to worry about you running by them.
https://www.nfl.com/prospects/michael-gallup?id=32194741-4c77-9981-95e1-30b1c57c6002

He did run better at his Pro Day, at 4.45, but that's usually the case. I discount Pro Day numbers 0.3-05.
https://milehighsports.com/michael-gallup-improves-on-combine-numbers-at-csus-pro-day/

Combine numbers are apples to apples. Unless there are particular and documented reasons why the numbers aren't really representative of what the player can do, like for Pollard and Cooper, I go with combine numbers.

 

[Melonfeud]

Hoping we drop some deep passes early in the season and get opposing defenses out of run blitzes and have to respect our deeper stuff. That would change our Offense and give us a great dynamic.

durn tootin'& ya buddy, Too! It would

 

[speedkilz88]

Harper ran as an anchor in college. The anchor is known to be the fastest of the relay team. I dont know his 40 time but he was sold as being fast.

He also was a high jumper.

4.45 from what I remember. Good not great speed.

 

[speedkilz88]

4.51. You can go deep at 4.51, but CBs aren't going to worry about you running by them.
https://www.nfl.com/prospects/michael-gallup?id=32194741-4c77-9981-95e1-30b1c57c6002

He did run better at his Pro Day, at 4.45, but that's usually the case. I discount Pro Day numbers 0.3-05.
https://milehighsports.com/michael-gallup-improves-on-combine-numbers-at-csus-pro-day/

Combine numbers are apples to apples. Unless there are particular and documented reasons why the numbers aren't really representative of what the player can do, like for Pollard and Cooper, I go with combine numbers.

He still manages to get by people on the 9 routes.

 

[buybuydandavis]

If you were talking about 2017 and not currently, then please ignore.

If you meant currently, then you're wrong. An offense that ranks in the top 10 between the 20s, and ranks 2nd in TD% from outside the 20, but 29th in red zone TD% doesn't list the deep ball as one of its problems, much less "the fundamental problem."

None of those stats say anything about the effectiveness of our deep balls. 20 yards isn't "deep" by my standards, and a 20 yard TD doesn't mean a pass, and it doesn't even mean a pass 20 yards downfield even when it is a pass.

 

[buybuydandavis]

He still manages to get by people on the 9 routes.

Sometimes. But at his speed, they're going to catch him. It's probably easier for slow guys to get by people, because those people can crowd the short stuff because they're not worried about getting beat deep.

We've got other guys who if they get by you, you aren't catching up. Those are the guys that back off a defense.

 

[buybuydandavis]

They were sitting on the underneath routes and the running game. My main point is that teams can't do that if you have a Desean Jackson type on the field that can turn one bad read into getting two yards behind the DB for a quick touchdown. Jackson basically runs three routes but he has been in the NFL for 11 seasons with 53 TDs.

My point is the "take the top off the defense" type of WRs. Amari Cooper is that type of threat and both Gallup and Cobb are guys that are not, but can still get deep. Last year Hurns clearly was not and the other guys like Deonte Thompson and Brice Butler could - but they were one dimensional players that defenses didn't have to account for. Beasley could't get deep with a rental car and a week to do it.

My point is that you could see 4 WR sets where you have 2 - 4 guys with that kind of deep speed. Amari lined up with Tavon Austin and a third guy like Reggie Davis or Jon'Vea Johnson and its a safety's nightmare.

I agree about Jackson.

I don't agree about Thompson and Butler. You've got to account for guys that fast and that big. They can run by you, and have decent enough talent that you can't just give up the short stuff on them either.

You can and should send Beasley deep, but you have to hit him early after his break upfield. He'll probably give you separation on that break, but the CB will close and have the size advantage on him. You get a window of opportunity, but it's not that large.

Interesting point about putting 2-4 guys with speed. That's what you do when you look at the other team's defense, and note that they just don't have enough players with speed in their secondary to cover that many WRs with speed. Maybe with Moore we'll actually try to exploit personnel advantages like that more often. That's the kind of thing we just have done forever.

But you don't have to go numbers. Just two WRs with speed make a problem for a single high safety. He has to pick which side to give help to, because unless he's a real star, he can't cover both sidelines. That's why I'd tilt toward more speed than Gallup opposite Cooper. Every team will shade that safety over to Cooper. That leaves our #2 with an opportunity to beat them deep. Our #2 should be a good fit for that.

 

[buybuydandavis]

The connection between Dak and Gallup should be better this year too. So we should do better this year in the redzone.

There was a rash of articles this week that Dak's deep ball is looking sharper. Huge, if true.