Deep Threat WRs and Kellen Moore's Offense

[TheMarathonContinues]

You see Romo and TO on those teams? You see them getting the same coverages we face?

I don’t see a difference. Cowboys had a great running game in that era.

 

[Bohuntr97]

Gallup's combine time was a 4.45, he doesn't have elite speed but he is still a deep threat. Especially if you have two or three other guys faster than him that a defense has to account for.

Exactly. Isaac Bruce set records and ran a 4.48 but ran routes to a "T". Torry Holt was the speed guy.

 

[ScipioCowboy]

Would they move the ball more, or less, if they hit those deep balls?

Statistically, they’d probably move it about the same.

 

[Number1]

We should be *better* than top 10 in yards with Cooper and Zeke. We aren't because we don't hit the deep ball.

No one denies that we're "bad at scoring in the red zone", but that isn't much more informative than "bad at scoring". Bad play calling? Poor execution? Blocking? Running? Passing? Dak? Zeke? TEs? WRs?

There was a stack of articles in the last week about Dak improving on his deep ball in camp, and how this has been a weakness for years.



Read Sanjay again:
"Being able to hit those deep balls in games is going to change everything if we're able to do that."

We haven't been doing it. But *if* we're able to do that, it will change everything.

Believe deep balls are not a problem. Believe Dak is great at deep balls. Believe Gallup is too.

People who write about the Cowboys disagree with you. The WR coach disagrees with you. I disagree with you. And you talk about everything *but* deep ball execution to assert that they aren't a problem.

umm, that's nothing coaches don't say all the time - because that is true of any team

until an offense can hit often on a 9 - they will struggle throwing the ball

notice there are several things that have to come together
- play call (didn't do it very often, last in the NFL)
- blocking (lousy the last 2 years)
- pattern (no speed til last year)
- timing (takes practice)
- throw (better than most)
- catch (better than most)

personally I'm glad our 2nd year WRC is thinking straight and has a clear goal in mind

 

[Kaiser]

Exactly. Isaac Bruce set records and ran a 4.48 but ran routes to a "T". Torry Holt was the speed guy.

Exactly, Gallup's game is his route running and he has already shown he can get deep. My main point in posting this thread is that Kellen Moore will be able to put several "take the top off a defense" burners on the field at any time but Gallup can still get deep on any play.

Issac Bruce is the perfect example, I was thinking of Jerry Rice going to the HOF after running a 40 slower than 4.5 but Bruce is a better example.

 

[Kaiser]

if Looney is up so be it, I think a LG will emerge, more concerned about LT

FWIW when Sturm broke down every sack for last season (regular season and playoffs) he only put 3 sacks on Tyron Smith.

IMO the problem Lael Collins had were mostly about the switch to Paul Alexander's techniques. He was very solid in the second half of 2017 and played OK under Columbo late in 2018. I think the biggest factor will be that mystical, magical improvement players seem to have in a contract year.

 

[Kaiser]

He was just towing the company line as that’s what Stephen was saying.

And it still would have worked out if both Hurns and TWill hadn't tanked. Both of those guys had averaged 3 catches a game for each of the previous five years - then together they recorded 20 catches last year. Dak's only comments were that a superstar isn't mandatory to move the ball, its funny how the haters make it sound like he joined the Flat Earth Society.

 

[Kaiser]

I was kind of hoping Dallas would draft D.K. Metcalf when he fell to us. I'm not upset with the Hill pick, I just think Metcalf would have improved the team more now than a DT. Dallas already has some pretty good route runners. This guy could have taken the top off the defense.

Sure, but Amari Cooper does it every down when you give Dak time to throw, which should happen this year. I think Dallas has brought in some guys who can fill that role as backups, in the draft I do think they viewed Hill as BPA. They have finally built the team depth to a point that they don't HAVE to fill a position in the draft, like they did with Williams at OG last year and Taco the year before that.

 

[Hardline]

From our 15 to their 35, just a flick of the wrist....

Aikman could thread the needle at any range.

 

[Seven]

Ir

80 as in Alvin Harper?
Harper wasn't a speed guy. He was a high-point guy.

No kidding.

Irvin was no speed burner either. Used his body well and don't forget the "push off" rule in his honor......

 

[buybuydandavis]

umm, that's nothing coaches don't say all the time - because that is true of any team

until an offense can hit often on a 9 - they will struggle throwing the ball

notice there are several things that have to come together
- play call (didn't do it very often, last in the NFL)
- blocking (lousy the last 2 years)
- pattern (no speed til last year)
- timing (takes practice)
- throw (better than most)
- catch (better than most)

personally I'm glad our 2nd year WRC is thinking straight and has a clear goal in mind

They don't say:
Being able to hit those deep balls in games is going to change everything if we're able to do that.

You don't get coaches admitting that they weren't able to hit deep balls in the previous season, and being able to do it would change everything.

 

[Typhus]

You can have your car in any colour you want, as long as it's black"


- Henry Ford, 1920


“You can run any pattern you want, as long as it’s a comeback route”


- Scott Linehan, 2018


One of the biggest problems with the offense last year IMO was Linehan’s predictability. Way too many pass routes were comebacks and with the OL injuries, defenses ignored the deep routes to run blitz and sit on the short routes. Linehan was fired, then Kellen Moore was clearly hired to bring more innovation and unpredictability to the offense.

The best example was Amari Cooper’s 75 yard TD against the Eagles where he publicly said this after the game:

“It’s interesting because I actually had another stop route on that play and they were, if you were watching, really sitting on those stop routes,” Cooper said. “And I was like, this is ridiculous. So when I broke the huddle I was kind of mad and I was like, Dak, come on. And he was just like, just run it bro. And I guess he thought about it again and he kind of signaled a go route and I was elated when he did that. And I took off, caught the ball, and scored.”

Going into the offseason, the team replaced Beasley in the slot with Cobb, who has been a deep threat his entire career. Amari and Gallup are already deep threats.

Reading the news from the OTA’s, its clear the backup WR candidates this year could add a ton of deep speed to the team. Tavon Austin might be the fastest player on the team. Devin Smith was a 2nd round pick because of his deep speed but was injured with the Jets. Jon’Vea Johnson is described as having electric deep speed. Reggie Davis has bounced around but ran a 4.31 at his combine. Even Cedric Wilson is a deceptively fast deep threat.

So question for the board – if Zeke and Witten are the short game, then you have 6 WRs (and Jarwin) who can beat you deep, what does Kellen Moore’s offense look like?

Linehan was a wussy,, he played the game ultra conservative with the mind set that he could preserve his employment/income, if he kept the QB off the ground.
Linehan compromised the success of this team more than any other staff member even Garrett, but Garrett knew what was going on, so he is to blame there, but Garrett is at least a better HC, he is as good at being a HC as he is kissing ***. He knows that standing up to Jerry gets you a ticket out to the florida keys and fishing with JJ.
Enter Kellen... he doesn't know conservative, he is coming in with everyone already expecting him to have the pedal to the floor, 100mph, running it deep, balls to the wall.
Kellen has no choice but to open this up, and he will live and succeed, or die failing.
Im good with that.

 

[Brax]

You think Dak should be able to win with Cole Beasley as his number one receiver?

And yeah what guys say to the media is usually crap. You take what guys say in the media seriously?

Your point was my point to @Kaiser if you read back in the posts. it referred to Dak and his support statement of KM.

 

[Brax]

Dak’s career completion rate is 66.1% so good thing Dak already has accuracy.

up to 10 yards he's pretty good, not so good on the intermediate to long yet. Kinda funny nowhere did the post mention Dak but you came to his defense because deep down you know it's true.

 

[OmerV]

You can have your car in any colour you want, as long as it's black"


- Henry Ford, 1920


“You can run any pattern you want, as long as it’s a comeback route”


- Scott Linehan, 2018


One of the biggest problems with the offense last year IMO was Linehan’s predictability. Way too many pass routes were comebacks and with the OL injuries, defenses ignored the deep routes to run blitz and sit on the short routes. Linehan was fired, then Kellen Moore was clearly hired to bring more innovation and unpredictability to the offense.

The best example was Amari Cooper’s 75 yard TD against the Eagles where he publicly said this after the game:

“It’s interesting because I actually had another stop route on that play and they were, if you were watching, really sitting on those stop routes,” Cooper said. “And I was like, this is ridiculous. So when I broke the huddle I was kind of mad and I was like, Dak, come on. And he was just like, just run it bro. And I guess he thought about it again and he kind of signaled a go route and I was elated when he did that. And I took off, caught the ball, and scored.”

Going into the offseason, the team replaced Beasley in the slot with Cobb, who has been a deep threat his entire career. Amari and Gallup are already deep threats.

Reading the news from the OTA’s, its clear the backup WR candidates this year could add a ton of deep speed to the team. Tavon Austin might be the fastest player on the team. Devin Smith was a 2nd round pick because of his deep speed but was injured with the Jets. Jon’Vea Johnson is described as having electric deep speed. Reggie Davis has bounced around but ran a 4.31 at his combine. Even Cedric Wilson is a deceptively fast deep threat.

So question for the board – if Zeke and Witten are the short game, then you have 6 WRs (and Jarwin) who can beat you deep, what does Kellen Moore’s offense look like?

Zeke and Witten won’t be the entire short game. WRs can’t quit running curls and short outs and slants. To be effective they need DBs to be worried about stopping all possible routes rather than just protecting against the deep pass.

Moore will not feature a vertical passing game, but there will be a vertical element to it.

 

[GMO415]

Look at Montana's SB teams... Joe's talent wasn't the deep threat but hitting WRs who could then break free for big gains. Bill was the master at RAC. Moore's offense will probably be the same, hit the guy early and with down field blocking, give them a chance to score.

 

[Rockport]

up to 10 yards he's pretty good, not so good on the intermediate to long yet. Kinda funny nowhere did the post mention Dak but you came to his defense because deep down you know it's true.

Every one of your posts are about Dak in one way or another so quit lying. You’re make a joke of yourself.

 

[cern]

it's not always about your top end speed in sports, but rather how quickly you can come up to that speed. initial acceleration is very important.

 

[Brax]

Every one of your posts are about Dak in one way or another so quit lying. You’re make a joke of yourself.

Ha ha ha, your funny, you assumption is wrong as well as your observation. just another dumb reply from you like so many, keep towing the Jerry line someday you may be able to think and see for yourself. As for Dak you are the one who brings him up when he is never in the post its a defense mechanism for you, sad really sad.

 

[Kaiser]

Zeke and Witten won’t be the entire short game. WRs can’t quit running curls and short outs and slants. To be effective they need DBs to be worried about stopping all possible routes rather than just protecting against the deep pass.

Moore will not feature a vertical passing game, but there will be a vertical element to it.

Exactly, if the defense can sit on the underneath routes they can also do a much better job of stopping the running game, which Dallas is built around. And its also easier to blitz on passing plays against a Dallas team that had most of its OL injured or playing through injuries. Its a problem that compounds.