Did the Cowboys really want CB Isaiah Johnson?

[xwalker]

Did the Cowboys have CB Isaiah Johnson rated as highly as the media claimed?


They might have but I have not seen any solid indication of how much they liked Isaiah Johnson.

They met with him at his Pro Day. They were there primarily to see DT Ed Oliver who was widely known to be one of their favorite players in the draft.

There was tons of media speculation that the Cowboys loved Johnson, but it seemed like a lot of that was assumption based on his size and the one meeting.

I've seen comments that Kris Richard "got shafted" because they didn't draft a Safety in the 2nd and didn't draft Isaiah Johnson with the pick used on Tony Pollard. KR has said he wanted the DT in the 2nd. I have not seen/heard any comments by KR about not drafting Isaiah Johnson.

I don't have him as listed as one of the pre-draft 30 visits and attending HS and college in Houston wouldn't qualify him as a local visit (CB Westry was a pre-draft visit and was signed as a udfa).

The Cowboys picked Michael Jackson in the 5th round and his measurable(s) were not much below Johnson's. The Cowboys commented that they had multiple played they liked in the 4th and later which is why they traded down with the second of the two 4th round picks.

Speculation was that they traded down because Johnson was gone; however, I wonder if they had a similar rating on both Johnson and Jackson.

Jackson was considered to be a bit further along in his development as a CB than Johnson who had originally played WR. Johnson played 23 games after switching to CB with 15 starts. Jackson was always a CB and played in 51 games.

Broaddus & minions said that the Cowboys had CB Lonnie Johnson rated highly. There was speculation that the Cowboys had hoped he might fall to their 3rd round pick but he was drafted in the 2nd.


Isaiah Johnson & Michael Jackson
Height
Johnson 6-2
Jackson 6-1

Weight
Johnson 208
Jackson 210

Forty
Johnson 4.40
Jackson 4.45

Ten
Johnson 1.55
Jackson 1.60

Arms
Johnson 33
Jackson 32-1/2

Hands
Johnson 08-3/4
Jackson 9-3/4

Wingspan
Johnson 79-1/8
Jackson 77-1/4

Age
Johnson 23.4
Jackson 22.3

 

[Doc50]

Did the Cowboys have CB Isaiah Johnson rated as highly as the media claimed?


They might have but I have not seen any solid indication of how much they liked Isaiah Johnson.

They met with him at his Pro Day. They were there primarily to see DT Ed Oliver who was widely known to be one of their favorite players in the draft.

There was tons of media speculation that the Cowboys loved Johnson, but it seemed like a lot of that was assumption based on his size and the one meeting.

I've seen comments that Kris Richard "got shafted" because they didn't draft a Safety in the 2nd and didn't draft Isaiah Johnson with the pick used on Tony Pollard. KR has said he wanted the DT in the 2nd. I have not seen/heard any comments by KR about not drafting Isaiah Johnson.

I don't have him as listed as one of the pre-draft 30 visits and attending HS and college in Houston wouldn't qualify him as a local visit (CB Westry was a pre-draft visit and was signed as a udfa).

The Cowboys picked Michael Jackson in the 5th round and his measurable(s) were not much below Johnson's. The Cowboys commented that they had multiple played they liked in the 4th and later which is why they traded down with the second of the two 4th round picks.

Speculation was that they traded down because Johnson was gone; however, I wonder if they had a similar rating on both Johnson and Jackson.

Jackson was considered to be a bit further along in his development as a CB than Johnson who had originally played WR. Johnson played 23 games after switching to CB with 15 starts. Jackson was always a CB and played in 51 games.

Broaddus & minions said that the Cowboys had CB Lonnie Johnson rated highly. There was speculation that the Cowboys had hoped he might fall to their 3rd round pick but he was drafted in the 2nd.


Isaiah Johnson & Michael Jackson
Height
Johnson 6-2
Jackson 6-1

Weight
Johnson 208
Jackson 210

Forty
Johnson 4.40
Jackson 4.45

Ten
Johnson 1.55
Jackson 1.60

Arms
Johnson 33
Jackson 32-1/2

Hands
Johnson 08-3/4
Jackson 9-3/4

Wingspan
Johnson 79-1/8
Jackson 77-1/4

Age
Johnson 23.4
Jackson 22.3

For you, squinting is not required to read between the lines.

As always, good stuff, XW.

 

[Future]

They had a formal meeting with Johnson at the combine, and then Richard spent a ton of time with Johnson at his pro day, including meeting Johnson's family. They were very much interested.

https://insidethestar.com/cowboys-draft-film-study-on-houston-cougars-cb-isaiah-johnson/
https://***USER-BAN-INCOMING-IN-3-2-1***/ProspectMeetings/ByTeam

I don't necessarily disagree that Jackson might've been rated similarly, but that's not because they didn't heavily express their interest in Johnson.

 

[Kaiser]

I wouldn't doubt that the OP is correct but we will likely never know for sure. They could have missed out on him and won't say they did, or it could have been one of the usual smoke screens the team uses on draft day.

I think the most likely scenario is exactly what X is describing, they liked him but they didn't like him enough to go away from their draft board and overdraft him.

 

[eromeopolk]

I like the coaching MJ got at Miami with Diaz/Richt versus the craziness with Applewhite at UH. Applewhite turned off the only blue chip recruit UH ever had and then watch him get drafted in the top 10. That's why Applewhite is not a Head Coach at UH anymore.

Plus at 6-1-210, 4.45 40yd time. I like his E=MC2 versus the lighter Johnson.

 

[AsthmaField]

I wouldn't doubt that the OP is correct but we will likely never know for sure. They could have missed out on him and won't say they did, or it could have been one of the usual smoke screens the team uses on draft day.

I think the most likely scenario is exactly what X is describing, they liked him but they didn't like him enough to go away from their draft board and overdraft him.

Yeah, we’ll probably never know.

That’s why drafts should be judged on who you draft and not speculation on what people think they should have done.

Did the guys they picked play well? Yes, then good job.

 

[xwalker]

They had a formal meeting with Johnson at the combine, and then Richard spent a ton of time with Johnson at his pro day, including meeting Johnson's family. They were very much interested.

https://insidethestar.com/cowboys-draft-film-study-on-houston-cougars-cb-isaiah-johnson/
https://***USER-BAN-INCOMING-IN-3-2-1***/ProspectMeetings/ByTeam

I don't necessarily disagree that Jackson might've been rated similarly, but that's not because they didn't heavily express their interest in Johnson.

Yes, I wanted to see how much info would come out of this thread.

I assumed the collective might find more info that I would just searching myself.

 

[gimmesix]

Yeah, we’ll probably never know.

That’s why drafts should be judged on who you draft and not speculation on what people think they should have done.

Did the guys they picked play well? Yes, then good job.

Dangerous to even do that. Travis Frederick was judged by many to only be worth a third-round pick.

I take judging of drafts with a grain of salt for the most part because even for the teams with paid, all-year scouting staffs, it's hard to figure out the true value of a player. If it wasn't, then a Tony Romo wouldn't go undrafted or a Tom Brady wouldn't last until the sixth round. We get first-round-quality players in the later rounds and UDFA-quality players in the early rounds each year.

I like reading about the players and watching film on them, but ultimately it doesn't mean much.

 

[Beaker42]

They had a formal meeting with Johnson at the combine, and then Richard spent a ton of time with Johnson at his pro day, including meeting Johnson's family. They were very much interested.

https://insidethestar.com/cowboys-draft-film-study-on-houston-cougars-cb-isaiah-johnson/
https://***USER-BAN-INCOMING-IN-3-2-1***/ProspectMeetings/ByTeam

I don't necessarily disagree that Jackson might've been rated similarly, but that's not because they didn't heavily express their interest in Johnson.

IMO Johnson will be a better CB than Jackson.

 

[Maxmadden]

IMO Johnson will be a better CB than Jackson.

Does Johnson = Pollard + Jackson?

IDK either

 

[beware_d-ware]

I don't think the Cowboys ever talked with Mike Jackson before the draft, while they had a fair bit of interest in Isaiah Johnson.

My guess is that they liked both Tony Pollard and Johnson, and figured that they had a better chance of getting Johnson with their second 4th round pick, so they let him drop. Kind of sounds strange, as I don't think anyone would predict that Pollard would go before Johnson, but the team has a lot more info than we do.

 

[darthseinfeld]

Did the Cowboys have CB Isaiah Johnson rated as highly as the media claimed?


They might have but I have not seen any solid indication of how much they liked Isaiah Johnson.

They met with him at his Pro Day. They were there primarily to see DT Ed Oliver who was widely known to be one of their favorite players in the draft.

There was tons of media speculation that the Cowboys loved Johnson, but it seemed like a lot of that was assumption based on his size and the one meeting.

I've seen comments that Kris Richard "got shafted" because they didn't draft a Safety in the 2nd and didn't draft Isaiah Johnson with the pick used on Tony Pollard. KR has said he wanted the DT in the 2nd. I have not seen/heard any comments by KR about not drafting Isaiah Johnson.

I don't have him as listed as one of the pre-draft 30 visits and attending HS and college in Houston wouldn't qualify him as a local visit (CB Westry was a pre-draft visit and was signed as a udfa).

The Cowboys picked Michael Jackson in the 5th round and his measurable(s) were not much below Johnson's. The Cowboys commented that they had multiple played they liked in the 4th and later which is why they traded down with the second of the two 4th round picks.

Speculation was that they traded down because Johnson was gone; however, I wonder if they had a similar rating on both Johnson and Jackson.

Jackson was considered to be a bit further along in his development as a CB than Johnson who had originally played WR. Johnson played 23 games after switching to CB with 15 starts. Jackson was always a CB and played in 51 games.

Broaddus & minions said that the Cowboys had CB Lonnie Johnson rated highly. There was speculation that the Cowboys had hoped he might fall to their 3rd round pick but he was drafted in the 2nd.


Isaiah Johnson & Michael Jackson
Height
Johnson 6-2
Jackson 6-1

Weight
Johnson 208
Jackson 210

Forty
Johnson 4.40
Jackson 4.45

Ten
Johnson 1.55
Jackson 1.60

Arms
Johnson 33
Jackson 32-1/2

Hands
Johnson 08-3/4
Jackson 9-3/4

Wingspan
Johnson 79-1/8
Jackson 77-1/4

Age
Johnson 23.4
Jackson 22.3

Johnson amd Jackson are good comps. Very similar type players and fits for what Richard wants to do in the secondary.

I know there was interest. However, the extent is speculative. There is an assumption we traded down because Johnson went off the board, however an assumption is all that is. We dont know the driving force behind the trades. With so many key players coming up on for expensive, trading down could simply had been to add more cheap talent to the roster.

 

[Stash]

Did the Cowboys have CB Isaiah Johnson rated as highly as the media claimed?


They might have but I have not seen any solid indication of how much they liked Isaiah Johnson.

They met with him at his Pro Day. They were there primarily to see DT Ed Oliver who was widely known to be one of their favorite players in the draft.

There was tons of media speculation that the Cowboys loved Johnson, but it seemed like a lot of that was assumption based on his size and the one meeting.

I've seen comments that Kris Richard "got shafted" because they didn't draft a Safety in the 2nd and didn't draft Isaiah Johnson with the pick used on Tony Pollard. KR has said he wanted the DT in the 2nd. I have not seen/heard any comments by KR about not drafting Isaiah Johnson.

I don't have him as listed as one of the pre-draft 30 visits and attending HS and college in Houston wouldn't qualify him as a local visit (CB Westry was a pre-draft visit and was signed as a udfa).

The Cowboys picked Michael Jackson in the 5th round and his measurable(s) were not much below Johnson's. The Cowboys commented that they had multiple played they liked in the 4th and later which is why they traded down with the second of the two 4th round picks.

Speculation was that they traded down because Johnson was gone; however, I wonder if they had a similar rating on both Johnson and Jackson.

Jackson was considered to be a bit further along in his development as a CB than Johnson who had originally played WR. Johnson played 23 games after switching to CB with 15 starts. Jackson was always a CB and played in 51 games.

Broaddus & minions said that the Cowboys had CB Lonnie Johnson rated highly. There was speculation that the Cowboys had hoped he might fall to their 3rd round pick but he was drafted in the 2nd.


Isaiah Johnson & Michael Jackson
Height
Johnson 6-2
Jackson 6-1

Weight
Johnson 208
Jackson 210

Forty
Johnson 4.40
Jackson 4.45

Ten
Johnson 1.55
Jackson 1.60

Arms
Johnson 33
Jackson 32-1/2

Hands
Johnson 08-3/4
Jackson 9-3/4

Wingspan
Johnson 79-1/8
Jackson 77-1/4

Age
Johnson 23.4
Jackson 22.3

I'd ask if you can find similar evidence of the same level of interest in CB Michael Jackson prior to the draft?

If not, then it's clear to me that Jackson was Plan B after Johnson was selected immediately after the Pollard pick.

Then we watch to see if Pollard is everything the Cowboys think and hope he can be and how Johnson and Jackson compare as cornerbacks.

Just like we waited to see how Taco and TJ Watt compared.

 

[Stash]

I don't think the Cowboys ever talked with Mike Jackson before the draft, while they had a fair bit of interest in Isaiah Johnson.

My guess is that they liked both Tony Pollard and Johnson, and figured that they had a better chance of getting Johnson with their second 4th round pick, so they let him drop. Kind of sounds strange, as I don't think anyone would predict that Pollard would go before Johnson, but the team has a lot more info than we do.

Or the team simply guessed wrong and screwed up? I realize that some fans (not saying you) have a hard time accepting when that happens, but it does.

 

[Hennessy_King]

I mean should we have drafted him over mcgovern idk. It's a wait and see. There's only one player I was upset we passed on numerous times over the years and that's carl lawson.

 

[Stash]

I mean should we have drafted him over mcgovern idk. It's a wait and see. There's only one player I was upset we passed on numerous times over the years and that's carl lawson.

Actually, it came down to a Pollard vs Johnson pick at #128 in round 4. The Cowboys chose Pollard (which some felt was a reach) and Isaiah Johnson went one pick later at #129 to the Raiders.

 

[Bullflop]

I'll be very interested to see how our guy, Mike Jackson, covers the run.
I've seen that he's been reported to be a "non factor" in that area.

 

[Cowboys22]

I think it’s safe to say every team misses out on players they really like in every draft, maybe even in every round of every draft. Is this really a surprise? They obviously as a group didn’t like him as much as Pollard or they would have picked him. Now, maybe they just decided that he was more likely to fall to their next pick than Pollard and got that wrong but I’m sure that happens to every team every year. It’s not really a topic worth discussing. No team gets every player they like going in.

 

[beware_d-ware]

Or the team simply guessed wrong and screwed up? I realize that some fans (not saying you) have a hard time accepting when that happens, but it does.

That's what I am saying. We bet that we could get Johnson later and lost.

EDIT: This kind of stuff happens all the time. In 2017, we took Taco in the 1st specifically because we bet we could get CBs later, and we won. This year, the Commanders stayed put at #15 and bet they could get Haskins without trading up for him, and they won big. Houston made the same bet that Andre Dillard would fall to their pick without needing to trade up and it cost their GM his job.

Also, I looked up the 2019 draft results last night. We traded down with our second 4th twice before we drafted Jackson, so I can say pretty confidently that he wasn't a target. We may have traded down once and got him if he was our guy, but we turned a 5th into a 5th plus a 7th, and I really doubt we'd pass on a target we wanted to add an extra UDFA grade player.

 

[Stash]

That's what I am saying. We bet that we could get Johnson later and lost.

I totally agree. And I think Pollard would have still been there.

Now I just hope that Pollard proves worth the pick and Jackson develops into a solid corner.