Did the Cowboys really want CB Isaiah Johnson?

Stash

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Except I said most of it before the draft.

I said prior to the draft that Hill over a Safety made sense.

The Parcells concept of big over small has been much discussed here.

I said before the draft that Thornhill was one of my favorite Safeties, but that they need an SS and he projects best to FS.

I said before the draft that Isaiah Johnson was very raw but with interesting measurable(s).

I said before the draft and in other years that the draft media rankings on tweener position players is often way off.

I said before the draft and in previous years that the Cowboys need a RB/slot-WR combo type player with speed.

I've talked often about the Kris Richard scheme and CB requirements.

I've pointing out in the past that with only 30 visits, not all draft picks will come from the visit list.

My point is in reference to Pollard, Johnson, and Jackson.
 

waldoputty

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Did the Cowboys have CB Isaiah Johnson rated as highly as the media claimed?


They might have but I have not seen any solid indication of how much they liked Isaiah Johnson.

They met with him at his Pro Day. They were there primarily to see DT Ed Oliver who was widely known to be one of their favorite players in the draft.

There was tons of media speculation that the Cowboys loved Johnson, but it seemed like a lot of that was assumption based on his size and the one meeting.

I've seen comments that Kris Richard "got shafted" because they didn't draft a Safety in the 2nd and didn't draft Isaiah Johnson with the pick used on Tony Pollard. KR has said he wanted the DT in the 2nd. I have not seen/heard any comments by KR about not drafting Isaiah Johnson.

I don't have him as listed as one of the pre-draft 30 visits and attending HS and college in Houston wouldn't qualify him as a local visit (CB Westry was a pre-draft visit and was signed as a udfa).

The Cowboys picked Michael Jackson in the 5th round and his measurable(s) were not much below Johnson's. The Cowboys commented that they had multiple played they liked in the 4th and later which is why they traded down with the second of the two 4th round picks.

Speculation was that they traded down because Johnson was gone; however, I wonder if they had a similar rating on both Johnson and Jackson.

Jackson was considered to be a bit further along in his development as a CB than Johnson who had originally played WR. Johnson played 23 games after switching to CB with 15 starts. Jackson was always a CB and played in 51 games.

Broaddus & minions said that the Cowboys had CB Lonnie Johnson rated highly. There was speculation that the Cowboys had hoped he might fall to their 3rd round pick but he was drafted in the 2nd.


Isaiah Johnson & Michael Jackson
Height

Johnson 6-2
Jackson 6-1

Weight
Johnson 208
Jackson 210

Forty
Johnson 4.40
Jackson 4.45

Ten
Johnson 1.55
Jackson 1.60

Arms
Johnson 33
Jackson 32-1/2

Hands
Johnson 08-3/4
Jackson 9-3/4

Wingspan
Johnson 79-1/8
Jackson 77-1/4

Age
Johnson 23.4
Jackson 22.3

i remember doing this exercise.
i recall johnson's agility and/or explosion stats were substantially better than jackson.
 

xwalker

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i remember doing this exercise.
i recall johnson's agility and/or explosion stats were substantially better than jackson.

Johnson better 3-cone, worse Vert.

Vert
Jackson 40-1/2
Johnson 36-1/2

SS
Jackson 4.12
Johnson 4.06

3-cone
Jackson 7.12
Johnson 6.81

Bench
Jackson 13
Johnson Declined to Participate
 

waldoputty

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https://www.rotoworld.com/article/evaluations/nfl-draft-cb-rankings?page=2
according to sparq scores - jackson agility is very poor whereas johnson is above average/elite in everything else except small hands.


johnson sparq
ij.png

jackson
michaeljackson.png
 

xwalker

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My point is in reference to Pollard, Johnson, and Jackson.


Johnson / Jackson
I said before the draft that Isaiah Johnson was very raw but with interesting measurable(s).

Pre-draft I questioned if the Cowboys would draft Johnson as early as many fan mock drafts had him (3rd / 4th round).

I've talked often about the Kris Richard scheme and CB requirements.

In a previous reply I discussed the fact that Jackson played a style in college more similar to the KR style that most college CBs.

The Cowboys obviously spent some time studying Miami defensive players considering they drafted two of them.

I provided the measurable(s) comparison for Johnson and Jackson.

Pollard
I said before the draft and in other years that the draft media rankings on tweener position players is often way off.

I gave examples of tweener ranking issues.

Pollard was a tweener RB/WR in college.

He also played on an offense with 2 other NFL caliber RBs (D.Henderson 3rd round, Patrick Taylor projected 2020 2nd to 4th).

Pollard probably would have been a full time WR in many offenses, but most years the Memphis QB was limited.

They ran a significant percentage of plays without the QB with direct snaps to Pollard or Henderson.

I said before the draft and in previous years that the Cowboys need a RB/slot-WR combo type player with speed.

Summary:
I've spent the time, reviewed extensive game footage and have dug into all the details of the players/schemes/etc..

The media and bloggers jumped on the 1 report about Kris Richard meeting with Isaiah Johnson & Family at the U of H Pro Day.

If anyone is working backwards from a conclusion, it's probably people that continually repeat the 1 report about the Cowboys and Isaiah Johnson.
 

xwalker

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https://www.rotoworld.com/article/evaluations/nfl-draft-cb-rankings?page=2
according to sparq scores - jackson agility is very poor whereas johnson is above average/elite in everything else except small hands.


johnson sparq

jackson

I gave you the exact numbers for both players.

The graphs don't change the numbers.


The 3-cone is the primary agility measurable difference and Johnson wins that one.
Jackson 7.12
Johnson 6.81

Vert is the primary "explosion" measurable and Jackson wins on that one.
Jackson 40-1/2
Johnson 36-1/2

If teams drafted primarily on measurable(s), then Johnson would have been picked before the 4th round.

Thanks to @quickccc it came to my attention that typed Lonnie Johnson but meant Justin Layne when referring to the CB the Cowboys wanted in the 3rd round.

Broaddus and crew said the Cowboys wanted either Safety Will Harris or CB Justin Layne at #90.

If they were drafting on measurable(s) only, they would have preferred Isaiah Johnson over Justin Layne.

Measurable(s) including agility for Johnson, Jackson and Layne.
Height
Johnson 6-2
Jackson 6-1
Layne 6-2

Weight
Johnson 208
Jackson 210
Layne 192

Forty
Johnson 4.40
Jackson 4.45
Layne 4.50

Ten
Johnson 1.55
Jackson 1.60
Layne 1.59

Arms
Johnson 33
Jackson 32-1/2
Layne 33

Hands
Johnson 08-3/4
Jackson 9-3/4
Layne 09-1/4

Wingspan
Johnson 79-1/8
Jackson 77-1/4
Layne 80-1/8

Age
Johnson 23.4
Jackson 22.3
Layne 21.3

Vert
Jackson 40-1/2
Johnson 36-1/2
Layne 37-1/2

SS
Jackson 4.12
Johnson 4.06
Layne 4.09

3-cone
Jackson 7.12
Johnson 6.81
Layne 6.90

Bench
Jackson 13
Johnson Declined
Layne Declined
 

Stash

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Johnson / Jackson
I said before the draft that Isaiah Johnson was very raw but with interesting measurable(s).

Pre-draft I questioned if the Cowboys would draft Johnson as early as many fan mock drafts had him (3rd / 4th round).

I've talked often about the Kris Richard scheme and CB requirements.

In a previous reply I discussed the fact that Jackson played a style in college more similar to the KR style that most college CBs.

The Cowboys obviously spent some time studying Miami defensive players considering they drafted two of them.

I provided the measurable(s) comparison for Johnson and Jackson.

Pollard
I said before the draft and in other years that the draft media rankings on tweener position players is often way off.

I gave examples of tweener ranking issues.

Pollard was a tweener RB/WR in college.

He also played on an offense with 2 other NFL caliber RBs (D.Henderson 3rd round, Patrick Taylor projected 2020 2nd to 4th).

Pollard probably would have been a full time WR in many offenses, but most years the Memphis QB was limited.

They ran a significant percentage of plays without the QB with direct snaps to Pollard or Henderson.

I said before the draft and in previous years that the Cowboys need a RB/slot-WR combo type player with speed.

Summary:
I've spent the time, reviewed extensive game footage and have dug into all the details of the players/schemes/etc..

The media and bloggers jumped on the 1 report about Kris Richard meeting with Isaiah Johnson & Family at the U of H Pro Day.

If anyone is working backwards from a conclusion, it's probably people that continually repeat the 1 report about the Cowboys and Isaiah Johnson.

As compared to other someone pushing a false narrative because they can’t handle the fact that the Cowboys missed one?

Look, I always appreciate your research efforts but none of it means that the. Cowboys didn't want Johnson. They risked taking Pollard first and guessed wrong. It happens.
 

xwalker

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As compared to other someone pushing a false narrative because they can’t handle the fact that the Cowboys missed one?

Look, I always appreciate your research efforts but none of it means that the. Cowboys didn't want Johnson. They risked taking Pollard first and guessed wrong. It happens.


There is ONLY 1 action that linked them to Johnson. The Pro Day meeting between Kris Richard and Isaiah Johnson & family.

The fact that the same story was repeated over and over on the internet does not make it more than 1 action by the Cowboys.

Fans/media have Zero clue if the Cowboys "guessed wrong" on Pollard / Johnson because we don't even know if they would have drafted Johnson at that pick if available.
 

quickccc

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Pollard panning out is the key to this draft.

He was a pivotal choice.

I think Pollard is a second part of this draft as he will still be a role player.

Imo,the guy that is clearly the leading key to this draft class is DT DT tyron hill

Leading key to a disruptive defense tends to start upfront and how long have we've been suffering at the DT interior?

I just hope cowboys fans have some patience as he develops as his potentially emergence may not be overnight. We have to give him time to adjust to NFL level of competition.
 

Stash

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There is ONLY 1 action that linked them to Johnson. The Pro Day meeting between Kris Richard and Isaiah Johnson & family.

The fact that the same story was repeated over and over on the internet does not make it more than 1 action by the Cowboys.

Fans/media have Zero clue if the Cowboys "guessed wrong" on Pollard / Johnson because we don't even know if they would have drafted Johnson at that pick if available.

Tell me about similar meetings with the other candidates showing the same or greater interest? There's definitive proof of interest in Johnson, despite your best efforts to try to dismiss it.

There was plenty of mention of interest in Isaiah Johnson, but some fans feel the need for revisionist history when the team misses out on drafting him. No bueno.
 

waldoputty

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I gave you the exact numbers for both players.

The graphs don't change the numbers.


The 3-cone is the primary agility measurable difference and Johnson wins that one.
Jackson 7.12
Johnson 6.81

Vert is the primary "explosion" measurable and Jackson wins on that one.
Jackson 40-1/2
Johnson 36-1/2

If teams drafted primarily on measurable(s), then Johnson would have been picked before the 4th round.

Thanks to @quickccc it came to my attention that typed Lonnie Johnson but meant Justin Layne when referring to the CB the Cowboys wanted in the 3rd round.

Broaddus and crew said the Cowboys wanted either Safety Will Harris or CB Justin Layne at #90.

If they were drafting on measurable(s) only, they would have preferred Isaiah Johnson over Justin Layne.

Measurable(s) including agility for Johnson, Jackson and Layne.
Height
Johnson 6-2
Jackson 6-1
Layne 6-2

Weight
Johnson 208
Jackson 210
Layne 192

Forty
Johnson 4.40
Jackson 4.45
Layne 4.50

Ten
Johnson 1.55
Jackson 1.60
Layne 1.59

Arms
Johnson 33
Jackson 32-1/2
Layne 33

Hands
Johnson 08-3/4
Jackson 9-3/4
Layne 09-1/4

Wingspan
Johnson 79-1/8
Jackson 77-1/4
Layne 80-1/8

Age
Johnson 23.4
Jackson 22.3
Layne 21.3

Vert
Jackson 40-1/2
Johnson 36-1/2
Layne 37-1/2

SS
Jackson 4.12
Johnson 4.06
Layne 4.09

3-cone
Jackson 7.12
Johnson 6.81
Layne 6.90

Bench
Jackson 13
Johnson Declined
Layne Declined

the charts give the players stats in percentile
 

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Stash

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And definitely not just one visit at their pro day.

I don't need to see attempts at revisionist history on this. They missed out on the guy. They took Pollard first and hoped that Johnson would still be there and he was taken the very next pick.

Now we wait and see and hope that the combination of Pollard and Michael Jackson helps the team look better and not worse as a result of their decision.
 
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