Zeke for Clowney

[JoeKing]

b

no, no you are not.

btw, you're almost out of milk.

 

[Vanilla2]

Not the best idea I’ve read.

What’s the $$$ Clowney is looking for?

<Zeke?

 

[jazzcat22]

b

btw, you're almost out of milk.

Just have a beer.

 

[JoeKing]

Just have a beer.

Thanks, man but beer in the cereal is kind of rough. Cheers!

 

[Cowboysheelsreds053]

no. how many games has zeke missed his first 3 seasons. how many games has clowney missed his first 3 seasons.

Bingo

 

[OmerV]

This isn't about what the Cowboys would do. You said Cowboys fans.

The Cowboys are a run oriented team, and they would continue to run the ball. That wouldn't change.

I guess you are missing the point.

Zeke isn't looking to play without an extension, amount of years left does not matter at that point. So scratch that.

The point here is trading a elite RB who will cost $15M+ a year and a mid round pick for a elite edge rusher who will play on the tag this year then likely cost $20M after. And the difference in positional output between an elite RB and elite edge is way more than $5M. Hope that clears it up.

And LMAO off at "has been questioned to take plays off in the past" hahahahahhahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahhahah

I am speaking as a fan, and everything I said should factor into how a fan thinks. A fan would be stupid not to consider all factors.

And yes, the Cowboys are a run oriented team, but that's not the issue. The issue is losing effectiveness as a run oriented team. Hurting the odds of excelling as a run oriented team.

And no, Zeke isn't planning to sign an extension, but there is benefit to controlling him nonetheless. It means even if he sat out this year, we would still hold his rights after the season, and have the ability to trade him - possibly for significant draft picks in the 2020 draft.

On the other hand, even if we got one year of Clowney, we would not have the ability to trade him after the season because we would not have him under contract. In short, you are advocating merely trading one problem for another, with no long term benefit to the Cowboys. And in fact, trading the mid round pick away would detract from longer term benefit. Clowney is no more in the Texan's camp than Zeke is in ours.

There may not even be short term benefit to the Cowboys for that matter, because (a) there is no certainty Clowney would help the team more than Zeke, and (b) because it's not even a sure thing Clowney will play this year under the franchise tag. I assume he will, but to date he is holding out and not signing his franchise tender.

As for your comment about Clowney being an "elite" edge rusher, he was 24th in the NFL in sacks last year, tied with 4 others for 19th the year before that, and 47th the year before that. Exactly how does that equate to "elite"?

Winning the rushing title 2 out of the last 3 years actually IS elite.

 

[jazzcat22]

Thanks, man but beer in the cereal is kind of rough. Cheers!

Hey, beer and wheaties is the breakfast of champions.

 

[QuincyCarterEra]

I am speaking as a fan, and everything I said should factor into how a fan thinks. A fan would be stupid not to consider all factors.

And yes, the Cowboys are a run oriented team, but that's not the issue. The issue is losing effectiveness as a run oriented team. Hurting the odds of excelling as a run oriented team.

And no, Zeke isn't planning to sign an extension, but there is benefit to controlling him nonetheless. It means even if he sat out this year, we would still hold his rights after the season, and have the ability to trade him - possibly for significant draft picks in the 2020 draft.

On the other hand, even if we got one year of Clowney, we would not have the ability to trade him after the season because we would not have him under contract. In short, you are advocating merely trading one problem for another, with no long term benefit to the Cowboys. And in fact, trading the mid round pick away would detract from longer term benefit. Clowney is no more in the Texan's camp than Zeke is in ours.

There may not even be short term benefit to the Cowboys for that matter, because (a) there is no certainty Clowney would help the team more than Zeke, and (b) because it's not even a sure thing Clowney will play this year under the franchise tag. I assume he will, but to date he is holding out and not signing his franchise tender.

As for your comment about Clowney being an "elite" edge rusher, he was 24th in the NFL in sacks last year, tied with 4 others for 19th the year before that, and 47th the year before that. Exactly how does that equate to "elite"?

Winning the rushing title 2 out of the last 3 years actually IS elite.

A fan would be stupid to only point out those factors. Very stupid.

And odds aren't we wouldn't lose effectiveness. Just like we didn't lose effectiveness in the run game in 2017 after losing Zeke, and our effectiveness actually increased.

"We could trade Zeke after this year for draft capital". Yes we can trade a running back on his last year for possibly a low 2nd rounder but more likely a 3rd rounder. Just like we could let Clowney walk if needed and get a 3rd round comp. It's really clever how you word these argument but they lack any sort of actual thought.

Ahh using only sacks and only rushing yards ro quantify elite, two bulk stats. I'm very disappointed. Only a stupid fan would use those two to quantify elite. Especially considering the players at hand, since Clowney is known as being one of the best, if not the best edge run defender in the league.

Clowney had 63 QB pressures last season, his second year in a row to produce 60+. So while Zeke averaged 4.1 ypc in 2017, Clowney had 60+ pressures. Who is elite? 47.2% of Clowney's career tsckles have been for a loss or no gain, 2nd in the NFL behind only Michael Bennett over that span of time. Only three players had 60 pressures and 40 run stops the last two seasons, Clowney is one of those three.

Completely disregarding run defense in your analysis is truly telling.

If you don't think an extra $5M and a mid round pick is a worth the difference between an elite edge rusher and a (maybe) elite running back then there isn't much needed left to discuss.

 

[JoeKing]

Hey, beer and wheaties is the breakfast of champions.

Not having wheaties here, champ. It's Fruit Loops all the way.

 

[GimmeTheBall!]

Zeke and a mid round pick for Clowney. Who says no?

Clowney has more medical issues than Johns Hopkins.
And more attitude than Shelley Berman!

 

[GimmeTheBall!]

Texans would say no

 

[texbumthelife]

Lol 2X-3X more? What?
You're looking at 1.33X more most likely.

Going by recent precedent, contracts by the other elite players at their respective positions (Kahlil Mack and Todd Gurley):

Khalil Mack: 6yr, $141M
Todd Gurley: 4yr, $57.5M

Doubling Gurley's contract brings it to $115M, leaving it $26M shy of Mack's when doubled. So yeah, 2-3x the contract.

 

[QuincyCarterEra]

Going by recent precedent, contracts by the other elite players at their respective positions (Kahlil Mack and Todd Gurley):

Khalil Mack: 6yr, $141M
Todd Gurley: 4yr, $57.5M

Doubling Gurley's contract brings it to $115M, leaving it $26M shy of Mack's when doubled. So yeah, 2-3x the contract.

And if they both sign 5 year deals, you're looking at 1.33x.

Using Mack's contract instead of say a Flowers or Lawrence contract is also pretty silly. Nobody is pretending that Clowney would get a Mack contract.

 

[OmerV]

A fan would be stupid to only point out those factors. Very stupid.

And odds aren't we wouldn't lose effectiveness. Just like we didn't lose effectiveness in the run game in 2017 after losing Zeke, and our effectiveness actually increased.

"We could trade Zeke after this year for draft capital". Yes we can trade a running back on his last year for possibly a low 2nd rounder but more likely a 3rd rounder. Just like we could let Clowney walk if needed and get a 3rd round comp. It's really clever how you word these argument but they lack any sort of actual thought.

Ahh using only sacks and only rushing yards ro quantify elite, two bulk stats. I'm very disappointed. Only a stupid fan would use those two to quantify elite. Especially considering the players at hand, since Clowney is known as being one of the best, if not the best edge run defender in the league.

Clowney had 63 QB pressures last season, his second year in a row to produce 60+. So while Zeke averaged 4.1 ypc in 2017, Clowney had 60+ pressures. Who is elite? 47.2% of Clowney's career tsckles have been for a loss or no gain, 2nd in the NFL behind only Michael Bennett over that span of time. Only three players had 60 pressures and 40 run stops the last two seasons, Clowney is one of those three.

Completely disregarding run defense in your analysis is truly telling.

If you don't think an extra $5M and a mid round pick is a worth the difference between an elite edge rusher and a (maybe) elite running back then there isn't much needed left to discuss.

Wow, you aren't above just making things up, are you?

In 2017 we averaged 144 rushing yards and 1.1 rushing TD's/game with Zeke, and 121 rushing yards and 0.5 rushing TD's per game without him. Yet, here you are claiming the running game actually became more effective without Zeke.

. . . and that doesn't even consider we dropped from averaging 24.4 ppg tp 18.3 ppg while Zeke was out.

. . . nor does it consider the drop off was with fresh legs. How much further would it drop if those players had to carry a big game to game load?

As for trading Zeke for draft picks this year, that's not even within the scope of topic, so that doesn't make a point. As for trading him next year, you are saying a player in the last year of his contract, even an elite player, is at most worth a late 2nd round or 3rd round pick, yet you are saying Clowney, on a franchise tag he still hasn't signed a couple of months after being tendered, is worth an elite RB and a 4th round pick. That's more than a little off kilter.

As for the 3rd round supplemental pick to be had if we let Clowney walk next year, how valuable is it really to have an end of the 3rd round pick in 2021 over the 4th round pick in 2020 we would give up? Even if you decide there is some nominal value to that, it couldn't remotely make up for not having either Zeke or Clowney on the roster. We would just be stuck after this season without either star player, and no better off in the draft.

 

[OmerV]

And if they both sign 5 year deals, you're looking at 1.33x.

Using Mack's contract instead of say a Flowers or Lawrence contract is also pretty silly. Nobody is pretending that Clowney would get a Mack contract.

But it is estimated Clowney would get around $100 million, whereas Zeke would only require something a little above $57.5 million to make him the highest paid RB. Whether we should pay it is another question, but if we have a hard time coming up with $57.5 million, how are we going to come up with $100 million?

 

[ItzKelz]

Zeke and a mid round pick for Clowney. Who says no?

 

[Whyjerry]

I say no.

Me too.

 

[blueblood70]

The Texans want a tackle a tackle that can play LT and rumor has it Washington is in the mix given the LT holdout but what if we trade LC to the Texans for Clowney ? I bet LC can p,ay beter LT then right given hes left handed..then we can move cwill to rt and let Xavier and ConnerM fight for lg spot?

now we have compliment to Tank with depth

superbowl..)_

 

[texbumthelife]

And if they both sign 5 year deals, you're looking at 1.33x.

Using Mack's contract instead of say a Flowers or Lawrence contract is also pretty silly. Nobody is pretending that Clowney would get a Mack contract.

Clowney will probably get something between Lawrence's and Mack's at the very least at this point.

 

[OmerV]

The Texans want a tackle a tackle that can play LT and rumor has it Washington is in the mix given the LT holdout but what if we trade LC to the Texans for Clowney ? I bet LC can p,ay beter LT then right given hes left handed..then we can move cwill to rt and let Xavier and ConnerM fight for lg spot?

now we have compliment to Tank with depth

superbowl..)_

That would be a beautiful thing for our defense, but it would further much up the dilemma of how to pay everyone we want to keep. Clowney has been franchised, and so far has chosen not to sign the tag, and even if he does we will be in the same boat next year with Clowney wanting a big long term contract.