A philosophy crossroads: Which one is better?

[Pantone282C]

Do you know whereabouts?

No, the family tree sorta gets lost after arrival in the colonies.

 

[NeathBlue]

No, the family tree sorta gets lost after arrival in the colonies.

Yeah can imagine

 

[Number1]

Let me be very clear at the beginning: Talent matters in the NFL. You simply cannot win without it. The Cowboys in 2019 have likely gathered our most talented roster since the glory days of the 90s and expectations for this team should be high going into this season.

But talent alone is not enough. More importantly, I would argue you win a championship with talent that has been molded into a team by a talented, adaptable coaching staff. We all know TEAMS win championships.

With that said, I believe this organization is near a philosophy crossroads regarding its future not only for this year, but the next 5-7 years as well. Here are their choices:

• 1. Become a “star centered” team built around 10 stars (mostly on offense plus DLaw) that take up about 70% of future cap space, leaving about 30% of cap space for the rest of the team, hopefully on rookie contracts. Upside of this is you keep your most talented players for longer periods. The downside to this is if the injury bug hits many of your stars, you’re probably in trouble because there is less cap space for quality depth.

• 2. Become a balanced team that is mostly built around a few stars (maybe 5) along with a lot young talent on rookie deals. No more than approximately 50% of cap space is dedicated to stars on either side of the ball. The upside of this is you hang onto a few of your best players while also being able to mix in a few FAs for depth. The downside of this you can’t keep as many of your stars as you might want.

So which philosophy would you choose? Either philosophy can work. And coaching is of course a huge part of any NFL team's success. There are good arguments for both.

I would probably choose option 2 because I think it’s a more sustainable philosophy going forward. You would have to make some very tough decisions about who to let walk. But it also means we probably need a better HC. The problem with the option 1 star system IMO is it locks you down with less flexibility to build a strong roster.

If the FO chooses option 1, it may signal it believes this is a “win now” moment and that Garrett can’t win without having a bigger star base of talent.

Which philosophy would you choose? Or is there another you believe we can have?

is the "star base" a figment the media created in your mind? or about Jersey sales?

please define a "star", is that a PB player? or a popularity contest? just a jerk attracting attention? or what?

if you hit in the draft on 3 of your top 4 picks a few years in a row ... are you then "star powered" ?

I reject the "star" notion as it based on an ambiguous premise. And it ignores the business side of he NFL ... profitability. For example, Witten is past prime, but he will make plays, and I'll lay bet they made JJ's money back on jersey sales already.

how about this -
trade down in R1 if you don't see a potential HoFer on the board
draft big men early as there are fewer 320lbs great athletes, than 220lbs great athletes,
sign outside FAs after their rookie contract who caught a bad break, Devin Smith comes to mind, so does Covington.
just don't sign high dollar free agents from elsewhere, PERIOD
and don't re-sign a fool under any circumstances (like Dez or Beasley or Zeke or McClain)

cap focus should be QB and interior linemen (OL and DL) as this is where 9 of 10 games are won or lost, all the rest should be exceptional raw talent and coach them, if some become "stars" ... resign the healthy ones after their rookie contract.

BTW, you seem to have it in for JG. "Garrett can’t win without having a bigger star base of talent."

what makes you think any coach working for JJ could have done better?

the talent ain't been there, at least not healthy come late season

for example, half the folks here have suggested better play calling wold have easily beat the Rams last year
by what magic did you think Conner / Xavier, Joe, and a limping Zack were going to handle Sue and Donald and spring Zeke for 200y?

after watching what NYG and IND did to our DTs late season did you imagine Ross body slamming Gurley in the backfield? and Lawrence chasing Goff on 2 & 10 all day? really?

any team that gives up 270 on the ground in a playoff game - don't have the talent or health to win a SB

reality and fanciful criticism ain't the same thing

 

[Bobhaze]

is the "star base" a figment the media created in your mind? or about Jersey sales?

please define a "star", is that a PB player? or a popularity contest? just a jerk attracting attention? or what?

if you hit in the draft on 3 of your top 4 picks a few years in a row ... are you then "star powered" ?

I reject the "star" notion as it based on an ambiguous premise. And it ignores the business side of he NFL ... profitability. For example, Witten is past prime, but he will make plays, and I'll lay bet they made JJ's money back on jersey sales already.

how about this -
trade down in R1 if you don't see a potential HoFer on the board
draft big men early as there are fewer 320lbs great athletes, than 220lbs great athletes,
sign outside FAs after their rookie contract who caught a bad break, Devin Smith comes to mind, so does Covington.
just don't sign high dollar free agents from elsewhere, PERIOD
and don't re-sign a fool under any circumstances (like Dez or Beasley or Zeke or McClain)

cap focus should be QB and interior linemen (OL and DL) as this is where 9 of 10 games are won or lost, all the rest should be exceptional raw talent and coach them, if some become "stars" ... resign the healthy ones after their rookie contract.

BTW, you seem to have it in for JG. "Garrett can’t win without having a bigger star base of talent."

what makes you think any coach working for JJ could have done better?

the talent ain't been there, at least not healthy come late season

for example, half the folks here have suggested better play calling wold have easily beat the Rams last year
by what magic did you think Conner / Xavier, Joe, and a limping Zack were going to handle Sue and Donald and spring Zeke for 200y?

after watching what NYG and IND did to our DTs late season did you imagine Ross body slamming Gurley in the backfield? and Lawrence chasing Goff on 2 & 10 all day? really?

any team that gives up 270 on the ground in a playoff game - don't have the talent or health to win a SB

reality and fanciful criticism ain't the same thing

Some good points and good questions....

In answer to some of your questions:

• Your Q- Is the star definition something the media created in your mind or from Jersey sales...or is it a pro bowl player? Etc
• My Answer: A star to me is someone the market dictates will be paid a large portion of cap space.

• Your Q: “What makes you think any coach working for JJ could have done better?”
• My A- First of all, I never said “any coach working for Jerry Jones could have done better”. Never said it. What I am saying is that after 9 full seasons as HC, if Jason Garrett has not done better in the playoffs than winning a WC playoff game it’s time for a change. There may not be a HC alive who could do better, but it would be time to find out.

• You mentioned I “have it in for Garrett”. Not really. He has done some good things in his time here. The drafts have been better, the players have played hard for him. But as I said above, if after 9 years, we still haven’t advanced any further than a divisional round game, why we would keep thinking he’s capable of more?

My only question back brother is how long should we give Jason Garrett to take us deeper in the playoffs?

 

[Number1]

My only question back brother is how long should we give Jason Garrett to take us deeper in the playoffs?

"we" don't get a vote, I doubt most of we fans ever wanted JG from day one

 

[buybuydandavis]

Let me be very clear at the beginning: Talent matters in the NFL. You simply cannot win without it. The Cowboys in 2019 have likely gathered our most talented roster since the glory days of the 90s and expectations for this team should be high going into this season.

But talent alone is not enough. More importantly, I would argue you win a championship with talent that has been molded into a team by a talented, adaptable coaching staff. We all know TEAMS win championships.

With that said, I believe this organization is near a philosophy crossroads regarding its future not only for this year, but the next 5-7 years as well. Here are their choices:

• 1. Become a “star centered” team built around 10 stars (mostly on offense plus DLaw) that take up about 70% of future cap space, leaving about 30% of cap space for the rest of the team, hopefully on rookie contracts. Upside of this is you keep your most talented players for longer periods. The downside to this is if the injury bug hits many of your stars, you’re probably in trouble because there is less cap space for quality depth.

• 2. Become a balanced team that is mostly built around a few stars (maybe 5) along with a lot young talent on rookie deals. No more than approximately 50% of cap space is dedicated to stars on either side of the ball. The upside of this is you hang onto a few of your best players while also being able to mix in a few FAs for depth. The downside of this you can’t keep as many of your stars as you might want.

So which philosophy would you choose? Either philosophy can work. And coaching is of course a huge part of any NFL team's success. There are good arguments for both.

I would probably choose option 2 because I think it’s a more sustainable philosophy going forward. You would have to make some very tough decisions about who to let walk. But it also means we probably need a better HC. The problem with the option 1 star system IMO is it locks you down with less flexibility to build a strong roster.

If the FO chooses option 1, it may signal it believes this is a “win now” moment and that Garrett can’t win without having a bigger star base of talent.

Which philosophy would you choose? Or is there another you believe we can have?

Problem is that you can't *choose* 2. "Young talent on their rookie deals" is the *consequence* of good drafts. That's what makes those rookie contracts "young talent" instead of "inexperienced warm bodies".

You can do a little with trades and comp pick strategy to get tilt away from vets and toward rookies, but if you want talent, you have to pick right.

The *choice* you can make is how you spend free agent money. What does the distribution of contracts look like? How much long term risk are you taking on with veteran contracts? Pay your own, or pay free agents? What positions do you decide to pay.

We were lucky in our first round of big contracts to the oline. All Pro players, no red flags, at foundational positions. If you don't sign them, I don't know who you sign.

The next batch isn't so certain. Dak. Zeke. Cooper. Byron. Lawrence. I wouldn't have signed Lawrence.

But I'll say that Jaylon was perfect. I consider him blue chip. And we signed him early, for a win-win deal that lets Jaylon lock in his first big cash early, and lets the Cowboys get a discount on his services long term.

 

[Diehardblues]

Some good points and good questions....

In answer to some of your questions:

• Your Q- Is the star definition something the media created in your mind or from Jersey sales...or is it a pro bowl player? Etc
• My Answer: A star to me is someone the market dictates will be paid a large portion of cap space.

• Your Q: “What makes you think any coach working for JJ could have done better?”
• My A- First of all, I never said “any coach working for Jerry Jones could have done better”. Never said it. What I am saying is that after 9 full seasons as HC, if Jason Garrett has not done better in the playoffs than winning a WC playoff game it’s time for a change. There may not be a HC alive who could do better, but it would be time to find out.

• You mentioned I “have it in for Garrett”. Not really. He has done some good things in his time here. The drafts have been better, the players have played hard for him. But as I said above, if after 9 years, we still haven’t advanced any further than a divisional round game, why we would keep thinking he’s capable of more?

My only question back brother is how long should we give Jason Garrett to take us deeper in the playoffs?

It’s a great question but a complex answer in our dysfunctional situation with so many issues with our meddling ownership . But beyond that I’d say once I saw that we were a better team than we were advancing, I’d boot him.

Most of the championship caliber teams this era either have an Elite QB or defense. We have neither right now. Is that on Garrett? If it is , I’d boot him.

Last year we begun the season 3-5 and basically were one player away from not winning the division. Looked like a good coaching job to me. Best turn around to make playoffs in Cowboy history.

A 15th ranked QB and 22nd ranked offense with a 7th ranked defense isn’t what I’d call championship caliber. Were there any Final 4 teams you thought we were a better team than? If so, I’d boot him.

Yes, we have some talent on OL, RB and WR, 1DE , 2 LB’s and a CB but still struggle stopping the run and pressuring the QB. Without the leagues leading rusher and 4th ranked rushing offense the defense would be left on the field longer being exposed.

Our QB and offense struggle scoring in bottom tier in the league and Redzone offense as well. Not what I’d call a championship caliber offense mainly because of our QB skill sets. We are very talented in all other positions on offense.

Honestly , while we’ve been close a couple times to advance further , I seriously don’t see this as one of the top 4 teams in the league. Could a more Elite HC take us further ? Perhaps. Is that an option for us with Jerry. Probably not.

When I see a team that I think should be playing for a championship then I’ll get on the mountain top for all to hear. Until then, I’d keep chugging along as the closer we get the greater chance of breaking thru.

If I could add one piece to this offense and team which I think would make us a much more serious contender it would be a closer to Elite prolific passer to match all of the Elite supporting cast. Imagine if we had one of the QB’s in the Final 4 last year. That’s a key piece we’re missing. And the teams that rise up faster in this league are teams that have the next Elite QB like in Cleveland, Indianapolis, etc.

 

[75boyz]

It’s a great question but a complex answer in our dysfunctional situation with so many issues with our meddling ownership . But beyond that I’d say once I saw that we were a better team than we were advancing, I’d boot him.

Most of the championship caliber teams this era either have an Elite QB or defense. We have neither right now. Is that on Garrett? If it is , I’d boot him.

Last year we begun the season 3-5 and basically were one player away from not winning the division. Looked like a good coaching job to me. Best turn around to make playoffs in Cowboy history.

A 15th ranked QB and 22nd ranked offense with a 7th ranked defense isn’t what I’d call championship caliber. Were there any Final 4 teams you thought we were a better team than? If so, I’d boot him.

Yes, we have some talent on OL, RB and WR, 1DE , 2 LB’s and a CB but still struggle stopping the run and pressuring the QB. Without the leagues leading rusher and 4th ranked rushing offense the defense would be left on the field longer being exposed.

Our QB and offense struggle scoring in bottom tier in the league and Redzone offense as well. Not what I’d call a championship caliber offense mainly because of our QB skill sets. We are very talented in all other positions on offense.

Honestly , while we’ve been close a couple times to advance further , I seriously don’t see this as one of the top 4 teams in the league. Could a more Elite HC take us further ? Perhaps. Is that an option for us with Jerry. Probably not.

When I see a team that I think should be playing for a championship then I’ll get on the mountain top for all to hear. Until then, I’d keep chugging along as the closer we get the greater chance of breaking thru.

If I could add one piece to this offense and team which I think would make us a much more serious contender it would be a closer to Elite prolific passer to match all of the Elite supporting cast. Imagine if we had one of the QB’s in the Final 4 last year. That’s a key piece we’re missing. And the teams that rise up faster in this league are teams that have the next Elite QB like in Cleveland, Indianapolis, etc.

I'm totally onboard with all your opinions stated here but I believe it was erod's(my advance apologies if not) simple truth on the season and that it's success be dictated by as far as Dak and Kellen take us. Or something like that. That's basically it to me as well. If either or both suck, I think they win 6 games and probably labeled as one of the most underachieving teams in recent times. Truly that simple I feel.

 

[Diehardblues]

I'm totally onboard with all your opinions stated here but I believe it was erod's(my advance apologies if not) simple truth on the season and that it's success be dictated by as far as Dak and Kellen take us. Or something like that. That's basically it to me as well. If either or both suck, I think they win 6 games and probably labeled as one of the most underachieving teams in recent times. Truly that simple I feel.

I’m not really sure how far a 15th ranked passing QB can take us without an Elite defense. Our defense carried us last year.

You need either an Elite defense or QB. We appear much closer to an Elite defense than QB or offense. Really a shame with so much of our talent on offense that it’s still bottom tier but we’ve seen what our QB is without some of the Elite supporting cast.

Not many teams playing for championships without being great on one side of the ball.

 

[CWR]

Option 2 becomes option 1 if you draft well.

 

[Hadenough]

Option 2 only works if you have an Elite QB.

 

[Jake]

"we" don't get a vote, I doubt most of we fans ever wanted JG from day one

A lot more people liked JG on day one than are willing to admit now. It's not like no one else wanted him - the Ravens offered him their HC job. He turned it down and they hired John Harbaugh. Go figure.

Obviously, JG hasn't produced as much as we would like. Looks like he's gotta get something done this year or Jerry will be done with him. Works for me.

 

[Number1]

A lot more people liked JG on day one than are willing to admit now. It's not like no one else wanted him - the Ravens offered him their HC job. He turned it down and they hired John Harbaugh. Go figure.

Obviously, JG hasn't produced as much as we would like. Looks like he's gotta get something done this year or Jerry will be done with him. Works for me.

as much as we want change, JG's not getting fired

3 of the last 5 NFCE titles, and in 2-3 in the playoffs
last year they rebuilt the O with 6 new starters, and went 7-1 down the stretch
and handled a SEA team them handled us in week 4. IMO, they came two bad plays from beating LA

frankly, if the OL holds up this is probably their year, he has a real defense - probably better than the O

funny. having watched him coach, I'm still not happy, but I respect 1 losing season in 9 working for JJ ... that is impressive.
sad ... but for real

and I'll say this for him, he's serious about teaching hustle first, his teams play hard, and that's job 1

 

[cern]

So, we can blame Cheapskate Son now for our ownership agendas. Stephen doesn’t want a normal coaching staff without a puppet for HC and staff he doesn’t hire himself?

Or do we only blame Big Daddy for the bad stuff and credit Son for the good stuff? No agendas there. Lol

never an agenda. my opinion is my opinion, nothing more. I doubt it influences anyone here. I doubt Jaylon, zack or tank consider Stephen a cheapstake. and I don't think Stephen is much a fan of garrett.

 

[Diehardblues]

never an agenda. my opinion is my opinion, nothing more. I doubt it influences anyone here. I doubt Jaylon, zack or tank consider Stephen a cheapstake. and I don't think Stephen is much a fan of garrett.

My question remains . If Stephen is now calling the shots for Cowboys he wants a puppetry HC and staff like his Daddy?

If Stephen isn’t a fan of Garrett and he’s running the show why is Garrett still here ?

 

[Bobhaze]

My question remains . If Stephen is now calling the shots for Cowboys he wants a puppetry HC and staff like his Daddy?

If Stephen isn’t a fan of Garrett and he’s running the show why is Garrett still here ?

Because Jerry still runs the show. Stephen is an influence. But Jerry’s still driving this truck. And in charge of jocks, socks, hot dogs and everything else. He has advisors, but he’s the king.

 

[kskboys]

I’m not really sure how far a 15th ranked passing QB can take us without an Elite defense. Our defense carried us last year.

You need either an Elite defense or QB. We appear much closer to an Elite defense than QB or offense. Really a shame with so much of our talent on offense that it’s still bottom tier but we’ve seen what our QB is without some of the Elite supporting cast.

Not many teams playing for championships without being great on one side of the ball.

I agree, except that you really need a good D no matter the QB.

 

[kskboys]

never an agenda. my opinion is my opinion, nothing more. I doubt it influences anyone here. I doubt Jaylon, zack or tank consider Stephen a cheapstake. and I don't think Stephen is much a fan of garrett.

Why do people call Stephen a cheapskate? It makes zero sense since he's got the job of fitting the players under the salary cap. Seems to me as if anyone who calls him a cheapskate is making themselves sound rather dumb.

 

[kskboys]

I’m not really sure how far a 15th ranked passing QB can take us without an Elite defense. Our defense carried us last year.

You need either an Elite defense or QB. We appear much closer to an Elite defense than QB or offense. Really a shame with so much of our talent on offense that it’s still bottom tier but we’ve seen what our QB is without some of the Elite supporting cast.

Not many teams playing for championships without being great on one side of the ball.

And I like Dak, but I can't see paying him over 30 mil/season. Really not sure I would.

 

[Diehardblues]

Why do people call Stephen a cheapskate? It makes zero sense since he's got the job of fitting the players under the salary cap. Seems to me as if anyone who calls him a cheapskate is making themselves sound rather dumb.

I anointed the nickname. He’s managing the Cap. Seemed like an appropriate bash. All in fun. Lol