Can Dak break into Elite QB Tier?

jnday

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Dak’s QBR has really went down after his rookie season. His rating have dropped quite a bit year after years in the last seasons. There is nothing to indicate that this pattern will change because he had the same pattern since high school. Continue to ignore it Dak-humpers.
 

Rayman70

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What are you guys expecting out of Dak this year? I’m not talking about the number of TDs and yards, I’m talking just about his level of play?

I’m expecting Dak to make a huge jump in terms of his decision making skills (timing) and internal clock. I expect him to start carrying the team on a regular basis. I’m expecting him to run the ball several times per game and start hurting defenses and keeping them honest.

I think you are going to see the best version of Dak by far. If Zeke is out I can also see Dak getting killed by a missed blitz pickup by a RB.
see his rookie year, up til now. He already has, in my opinion. Does this look elite to you?
 

Hadenough

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Dak’s QBR has really went down after his rookie season. His rating have dropped quite a bit year after years in the last seasons. There is nothing to indicate that this pattern will change because he had the same pattern since high school. Continue to ignore it Dak-humpers.
What concerns me about Dak is when they get into the redzone you dont see him throwing into the back of the endzone through traffic or throwing a quick hitting slant in the middle. Tough timing throws that require accuracy. He likes to throw the check down or scramble and it will be interesting if Moore can help this.
 

Bob-Lillys-War

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Most would say Dak cannot become elite , I say change the coaching staff first, before we make a final judgement .
 

Rayman70

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he has like what..guessing here, 10 come back wins already? I could be short changing him.. Could be more.
 

morat1959

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Yeah no, this is just incoherent. A guy isn't elite before he figures out how to play like it.

Nobody was just assuming Aikman would be a triple champion Hall of Famer in 1991 before he ever did anything.
You’ve just shown your knowledge of knowing what it takes to be a NFL QB. Aikman to Dak is apples to oranges....HS to college to first year in pro. There never was or will there ever be any comparison in these 2 QBs. It ain’t even close! Go ahead and pull out your stats. They mean squat!
 

Melonfeud

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Y'all ought to back it up to that last wrong turn that was made in the Q.B. comparisons,,, as didn't the Big Ben hoist up a Lombardi in year one of his footballish gaming?
 

csirl

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Aikman wasn’t playing at an elite level as a rookie, or even a 2nd or 3rd year QB.

Sure he showed signs of greatness. But we are talking about overall level of play. Overall level of play, not flashes or signs of their ability. There is a difference between playing at an elite level and showing elite promise.

Most QB’s aren’t performing at an elite level the moment they enter the league.

Very few players do at any position, let alone the hardest position in the game. It’s why coaches and teams often don’t expect much out of rookies, even highly drafted ones.

This is football 101 that players take time to develop. Why does this need to be repeated.

No, Aikman looked elite straight away. Could have started for any NFL team.

Funny enough, one of the other examples given also looked elite straight away. Warner walked in a NFL Europe training camp in Florida, without ever having played a down in the NFL or top level college football and had people calling him a future Pro Bowler almost immediately.

Going back further in time, both Elway & Marino had elite skills in their rookie years.

Many of the elite QBs are like that - they just have it. Its one of the reasons why, with the notable exception of Tom Brady, most elite QBs are ex-1st rounders. The natural talent is very evident even before they play in the NFL.

Those that need years and years of development are the exception.
 

HungryLion

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No, Aikman looked elite straight away. Could have started for any NFL team.

Funny enough, one of the other examples given also looked elite straight away. Warner walked in a NFL Europe training camp in Florida, without ever having played a down in the NFL or top level college football and had people calling him a future Pro Bowler almost immediately.

Going back further in time, both Elway & Marino had elite skills in their rookie years.

Many of the elite QBs are like that - they just have it. Its one of the reasons why, with the notable exception of Tom Brady, most elite QBs are ex-1st rounders. The natural talent is very evident even before they play in the NFL.

Those that need years and years of development are the exception.


Kurt Warner was cut and out of the league playing arena football before he even went to NFL Europe. But yeah I’m sure he was showing his elite ability when he was CUT.


And again you are missing the point. Aikman was not performing at an elite level his first couple years in the league. He wasn’t. Period. Of course he had the potential and showed the ability. He was a first overall pick after all.

But again, we are talking overall performance. Overall performance. I don’t know how else to explain it to you.
 
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shabazz

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Most would say Dak cannot become elite , I say change the coaching staff first, before we make a final judgement .

Getting Vince Lombardi incarnate aint gonna turn the Dink and Dunker into a Baller. He'll still be Check Down Charlie
 

CowboysFaninHouston

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What concerns me about Dak is when they get into the redzone you dont see him throwing into the back of the endzone through traffic or throwing a quick hitting slant in the middle. Tough timing throws that require accuracy. He likes to throw the check down or scramble and it will be interesting if Moore can help this.
that's part of his nature. he is a play it safe type QB. he doesn't want to turn the ball over and thus he always, waits until he feels/sees WR wide open (that's why cooper was so good for him) and he holds the ball too long a lot of times. thus in the redzone, when everything is tighter, you have to be much more accurate with throws and more creative at times and that's not his nature (or it hasn't been). he also got snake bitten and thus a littley shy when he threw a couple of picks in the end zone....with that said, I think those are correctable, a lot of it due to his bad foot work and inconsistent throwing motion. If Kitna has been able to improve that, then we should see improvement. With that said, I like to see improvement, he is not going to get fixed over night....breaking in new habits, is hard. you might do them in practice, but when its live, hits are real and games and downs matter, sometimes old habits and instincts take over. I guess we have to wait and see how much his muscle memory has learned the new stuff.

but I fully expect the Dak lovers to come back with a stat from PFF regarding him throwing into tight windows down field, on throws between 20 to 40 air yards, in games 3 through 13, on sunday 1:00 o'clock games in 2017 and 2018...or some other crazy stat like that :)
 

csirl

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Kurt Warner looked like an elite NFL QB while being shipped off to NFL Europe and then cut?

Got it.

You dont know your history. Warner was never cut after NFL Europe. His history is that he played in a small college and was signed by Green Bay out of college. He got a freak non-football injury just prior to training camp with GB and got cut preseason without playing.

Years later he decided to try out for NFL Europe - he asked (actually begged) the Rams to sign him specifically to be allocated to NFL Europe. Reports from NFL Europe training camp in Florida were that he was very special (all 6 teams trained together) - and these early reports proved correct. The rest is history.
 

HungryLion

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You dont know your history. Warner was never cut after NFL Europe. His history is that he played in a small college and was signed by Green Bay out of college. He got a freak non-football injury just prior to training camp with GB and got cut preseason without playing.

Years later he decided to try out for NFL Europe - he asked (actually begged) the Rams to sign him specifically to be allocated to NFL Europe. Reports from NFL Europe training camp in Florida were that he was very special (all 6 teams trained together) - and these early reports proved correct. The rest is history.


You’re right. He was cut BEFORE nfl Europe and played arena football for 2 years.

Elite players get cut all the time in the NFL and go unsigned for a couple years.

What was I thinking????
 

HungryLion

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that's part of his nature. he is a play it safe type QB. he doesn't want to turn the ball over and thus he always, waits until he feels/sees WR wide open (that's why cooper was so good for him) and he holds the ball too long a lot of times. thus in the redzone, when everything is tighter, you have to be much more accurate with throws and more creative at times and that's not his nature (or it hasn't been). he also got snake bitten and thus a littley shy when he threw a couple of picks in the end zone....with that said, I think those are correctable, a lot of it due to his bad foot work and inconsistent throwing motion. If Kitna has been able to improve that, then we should see improvement. With that said, I like to see improvement, he is not going to get fixed over night....breaking in new habits, is hard. you might do them in practice, but when its live, hits are real and games and downs matter, sometimes old habits and instincts take over. I guess we have to wait and see how much his muscle memory has learned the new stuff.

but I fully expect the Dak lovers to come back with a stat from PFF regarding him throwing into tight windows down field, on throws between 20 to 40 air yards, in games 3 through 13, on sunday 1:00 o'clock games in 2017 and 2018...or some other crazy stat like that :)


This was a really good post until the Dak lovers diatribe at the end.
 

atlantacowboy

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Its August. Everyone's potential is limitless. Pollard should break the rookie rushing record by a wide margin, and taco will dominate.
 

Brax

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Kurt Warner was cut and out of the league playing arena football before he even went to NFL Europe. But yeah I’m sure he was showing his elite ability when he was CUT.


And again you are missing the point. Aikman was not performing at an elite level his first couple years in the league. He wasn’t. Period. Of course he had the potential and showed the ability. He was a first overall pick after all.

But again, we are talking overall performance. Overall performance. I don’t know how else to explain it to you.
Lets hope Dak shows up big and is consistent this year, he has a chance to show how good he is if Zeke holds out for games. Dak can greatly change how some view him by how his play is without Zeke, do good he has it made not so good and lose games maybe 17th is fair, we shall see, sure should be fun to watch. Aikman preformed pretty well in year 2 and 3 as I remember it, showed great improvement but what any other QB did or didn't do has absolutely no bearing on what Dak will or will not be, only Dak and and his skill set will determine that. Dak shows up great on some plays and really poorly on just as many and that is what concerns me, clean up the majority of the poor play and he will have no problems we will see if he can do that this year. Being great is fine, elite is simply in the eye of the beholder.
 

HungryLion

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Lets hope Dak shows up big and is consistent this year, he has a chance to show how good he is if Zeke holds out for games. Dak can greatly change how some view him by how his play is without Zeke, do good he has it made not so good and lose games maybe 17th is fair, we shall see, sure should be fun to watch. Aikman preformed pretty well in year 2 and 3 as I remember it, showed great improvement but what any other QB did or didn't do has absolutely no bearing on what Dak will or will not be, only Dak and and his skill set will determine that. Dak shows up great on some plays and really poorly on just as many and that is what concerns me, clean up the majority of the poor play and he will have no problems we will see if he can do that this year. Being great is fine, elite is simply in the eye of the beholder.

I hope so. I do think he is still getting better.
Like I said earlier in the thread I don’t think he will ever be an elite QB. But he has already played like a top 10 QB for stretches of his career. If he can improve and consistently perform like a top 10 QB. Then the team is cooking with fire.

There really is only ever 3-5 elite QB’s in the league at a time, at maximum.

And any fan thinking the cowboys can just move on from Dak, snap their fingers and draft an elite QB no problem, isn’t being realistic about how hard it is to find one.
 

Brax

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I hope so. I do think he is still getting better.
Like I said earlier in the thread I don’t think he will ever be an elite QB. But he has already played like a top 10 QB for stretches of his career. If he can improve and consistently perform like a top 10 QB. Then the team is cooking with fire.

There really is only ever 3-5 elite QB’s in the league at a time, at maximum.

And any fan thinking the cowboys can just move on from Dak, snap their fingers and draft an elite QB no problem, isn’t being realistic about how hard it is to find one.
That's the problem many seem to overlook about the whole deal with Dak, the cowboys put all their eggs in his basket and have to decide what to do as there is no viable option to replace him. Dak on the other hand is now trying to leverage that into a high $ contract that he doesn't rate at this point. This year should be quite telling, and I agree with you that QB's aren't easy to find. I hope they let Dak play out this year then franchise him next year but allow his agent to negotiate with other teams top see what his true market value is.
 

Hadenough

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That's the problem many seem to overlook about the whole deal with Dak, the cowboys put all their eggs in his basket and have to decide what to do as there is no viable option to replace him. Dak on the other hand is now trying to leverage that into a high $ contract that he doesn't rate at this point. This year should be quite telling, and I agree with you that QB's aren't easy to find. I hope they let Dak play out this year then franchise him next year but allow his agent to negotiate with other teams top see what his true market value is.
That's what I want to see too!
The best way to find out what someone is worth is let them test the market and see what another team is willing to pay.
 
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