The straw that will break the camel's back

[Diehardblues]

Then nothing will change but the name of the head coach. Wash, rinse, repeat.

Dallas needs a strong head coach, or like I said, this franchise is doomed in the near future.

There’s no reason to believe much will change with the power structure but what we are counting on is a new HC will make a difference on Game Day.

 

[BoysForLife]

The Cowboys cap issues were more of a problem for fans than the actual teams.

Here are the quarterbacks taken in the first 3 rounds in the last 3 years: K Murray, D Jones, D Haskins, D Lock, Will Grier, B Mayfield, S Darnold, J Allen, J Rosen, L Jackson, M Rudolph, M Trubisky, P Mahomes, D Watson, D Kizer, D Webb, CJ Beathard

Good luck hitting on a replacement with that list. You've got a better chance of getting a non-NFL calibre QB than you do an improvement.

Ok, just shooting off the cuff, I'd take the following off that list over Dak without even thinking about it:
Watson, Mahomes, Jackson, Darnold, Allen, Murray. so on a list of 17 Quarterbacks, over 1/3 or more than 33% of them are an upgrade over Dak. Hell, he's already been out played head to head by 2 of them this year and they're only in their 2nd year under center.

Tough to tell on the guys taken in this years draft but in 2 years Lock will be looked at as a stud in my opinion. Murray is averaging almost 250 yards per game and has a 2:1 TD to INT ratio, playing on a garbage team. Their WR#1 is Larry Fitzgerald at 36 years old. Murray is the leading rusher on that team by more than 100 yards. Doing all this as a rookie on a team with pretty much zero talent compared to our roster. Imagine what Kyler Murray would do with the smorgasboard of thoroughbreds at his disposal in Dallas

Why first 3 rounds of the draft? Break down that list by year and I'm going with the 1st/2nd round guys because I agree with you the odds of finding a franchise QB go down precipitously once you get beyond round 2. I"m not using round 3 and beyond for my analysis because I don't think the Cowboys should have the mentality of drafting a "franchise" qb for the next decade beyond round 2. Not sure why you settled on the first 3 rounds but I'm guessing it's because it makes for a more palatable "pro Dak" argument.

Here are your round 1 and 2 guys for the last 3 years:


2017: Trubisky/Mahomes/Watson/Kizer (Absolutely 2 of those guys, Mahomes and Watson, are head and shoulders above Dak. Trubisky is probably comparable, the drop off to the extent that there is one, is not large. Agree Kizer is way below Dak)

2018: Mayfield/Darnold/Allen/Rosen/Jackson (As stated above, 2 of those guys Darnold and Allen, have already out played Dak head to head this year. Mayfield would be dynamite in our offense and Lamar Jackson would be a huge upgrade as well. So there's 80% of that class that would be a huge upgrade over Dak. a 4 out of 5 chance of getting a big improvement on a rookie contract that would be a fraction of Dak's asking price.

2019: Hard to tell with rookies but right now I'd take Kyler Murray over Dak without breaking a sweat. And Lock will prove to be better by this time next year. But let's go back to this discussion in a year and see where this class is. Comparing a 4th year starter to a rookie halfway through his 1st year is a bit premature.

End of day--if we are smart and do whatever is necessary to get a high 1st round pick the odds of getting a stud are actually real good. Not low.

that would be the way to do it. That would be the smart way to go. Which is exactly why I expect us to sign Dak for $40 million and "hope" for the best.

 

[Diehardblues]

I just don’t get the hate for Dak. This year he’s done everything the critics said he was not good at.

Sad that all criticism is lumped into this “ hate” file.

 

[BoysForLife]

Sad that all criticism is lumped into this “ hate” file.

 

[Future]

Bridgewater isn't an upgrade, he's more affordable at 20m than Prescott at 35-40m. This allows the team more cushion to retain D players like Jones, maybe Quinn or Bennett. I also do not know what Bridgewater might want so this might not fly but there are others to get while they bring along the rook.

Bridgewater's not going to get less than Foles - I bet he gets closer to $30m than $20m - but he's a definitive downgrade from Dak, at this point.

The problematic contracts in cap leagues are big dollars for middling players, even if they're good. It's the Jaylon Smith T Crawford, and potentially Byron Jones contracts that hurt you. Paying premium money for a premium player is rarely a problem.

 

[G2]

Prescott is getting signed. He's not getting tagged and we're not going to draft a better QB. What we need to do is fix special teams, safeties and the DL. Prescott is plenty good enough.

 

[Diehardblues]

I'd do both. Since we're already in the "Right Now" with Zeke and our Oline aint gettin younger, Franchise him and let him be the serviceable Qb that he is, and look for the next Franchise qb. If they dont sign Dak long term there was no sense in signing Zeke.

2 years should be enough to find out if we have the heir apparent to succeed Dakota. that would be three years from now and a whole new generation of players to be added

If we tag Dak then Cooper is probably gone.

Naaaa, I think Jerry and Stephen are All In on Dak. And part of their search for HC will be for someone who can maximize his potential.

If our ownership truly believed Dak was our core issue we wouldn’t be looking for a new HC. I believe Jerry thinks he’s built a great enough roster that should be playing for championships. It doesn’t really matter what we think. Lol

 

[Future]

Ok, just shooting off the cuff, I'd take the following off that list over Dak without even thinking about it:
Watson, Mahomes, Jackson, Darnold, Allen, Murray.

Stopped reading, because those last 3 are not even in the same league as Dak right now.

 

[BoysForLife]

Stopped reading, because those last 3 are not even in the same league as Dak right now.

And yet two of those 3 (Darnold, Allen) have already outperformed Dak head to head this year.

Should have kept reading. I made a pretty compelling case for Murray.
He's performing at a comparable level to Dak as a rookie, with significantly less talent around him.

Makes sense though, if it doesn't fit your narrative/agenda, just plug your ears, close your eyes, and keep blissfully traveling on.

 

[Future]

And yet two of them have already outperformed Dak head to head this year.

Should have kept reading. I made a pretty compelling case for Murray.
He's performing at a comparable level to Dak as a rookie, with significantly less talent around him.

Makes sense though, if it doesn't fit your narrative/agenda, just plug your ears, close your eyes, and keep blissfully traveling on.

Oh so we're forming opinions on single-game samples now?

There is no compelling case for Murray over Dak b/c Murray hasn't been good, outside of Fantasy. There's no way you've watched the Jets or Bills and think that either of those guys is better than Dak. You want to whine about agenda go ahead, but at least don't be a hypocrite.

 

[CF74]

You think Bridgewater is better than Dak?

 

[KMY_Amber]

Ya'll can argue all you want about Dak, but JJ's not starting over. Dak is getting signed, and for good reason. So, like it or not, Dak and Zeke will be the foundation of this team.

The defense has little foundation, so a remake is fine by me....starting with dumping the coaches and a new philosophy.

And the offense needs an injection of aggression and new play calling, especially at the onset of games.

And of course dump the damn ST coach too.

 

[Praxit]

..unfortunately, QB's aren't a dime a dozen. Its probably the hardest position to find something descent. Is Dak better than descent? I say, he is. Better than good? I say, he is. He has time to get better which is our advantage.

I have to contradict CC on that Byron is better at his position. Maybe Im seeing something different. Dak has delivered more than not. Has struggled recent, but lets hope he regains stature.

I still see Byron running with his back to the ball, jumping late, whiffing tackles. Let him walk. Like I said, there are 20 db's, for every 3 descent QB's.

 

[BoysForLife]

Oh so we're forming opinions on single-game samples now?

There is no compelling case for Murray over Dak b/c Murray hasn't been good, outside of Fantasy. There's no way you've watched the Jets or Bills and think that either of those guys is better than Dak.

There's a compelling case for a rookie QB who is performing well with considerably less talent around him than Dak has.

I mean--take Cooper off this team and you still have more talent on the Cowboys offense at the skill positions than Arizona currently does.
Yet Dak's numbers last year the first half of the 2018 season before Cooper arrived, were shamefully bad. Embarassingly bad. Dak, the first half of 2018, without Amari: under 200 yards passing 4 out of 7 games. 8 TD in 7 games. zero--ZERO--doubt in my mind a rookie Murray could have done significantly better in that situation than 3rd year Dak.

Yeah, I'd take any of those guys on my list over Dak without blinking.

 

[BoysForLife]

You think Bridgewater is better than Dak?

I'd take him at $18-20 million before I'd take Dak at $40 million.
No question.

 

[KMY_Amber]

..unfortunately, QB's aren't a dime a dozen. Its probably the hardest position to find something descent. Is Dak better than descent? I say, he is. Better than good? I say, he is. He has time to get better which is our advantage.

I have to contradict CC on that Byron is better at his position. Maybe Im seeing something different. Dak has delivered more than not. Has struggled recent, but lets hope he regains stature.

I still see Byron running with his back to the ball, jumping late, whiffing tackles. Let him walk. Like I said, there are 20 db's, for every 3 descent QB's.

100% agree^^^^ Byron can walk, 'cause NO ONE on this defense is a "must keep", IMO. D Law, if we can get some picks, trade him too. The LBs? Tradeable, if someone wants them. The whole secondary? Tradeable, if anyone wants them. But first, PLEASE dump anyone who supports this all-game-BBDB, lack of deception, lack of aggression scheme.

 

[john van brocklin]

This is not a Dak Prescott thread, it's just the opposite. This is about what to do instead of signing him to a long term deal.

There are some that want to tag him, pay him 30M for one season and draft a QB, I do not. The reason being you are still going to have to keep paying a lot of money to surround him with talent. I think Byron Jones is better at his position than Prescott is at his and more critical to keep. There are other options for a more affordable QB like maybe Bridgewater if Brees doesn't retire.

This team is unusual in that they have 4 OL in the top 6 paid at their position, the top paid RB and 3/4 DE and as a group they are not delivering according to their cap hits. They're not bad, just not that good.

Prescott is not bad either just not as good as the Tier 1 QBs with GB, NO and SEA and questionable whether he's as good as the one in SF. Do we want to make the same mistake that it looks like LAR and PHL have made?

It has become apparent to me that to be a true contender year after year, a team has to have that Tier 1 QB. Dak Prescott is not that guy and I think the Cowboys need to go as high as they can to get one that might be that guy and if not, go back again until they get him.

There is a chance the team has a new HC and we do not know what other changes that will bring about but maybe they do get Riley for the QB development but that would necessitate a new QB. This QB is not consistently as accurate as his last 3 QB's at OU.

Like I said, this is not about Prescott and whether he's deserving of a 35M contract, it's whether that should happen with this team and I say no for the reasons above. If this team is going to pay a QB top dollar, they need one that will not necessitate that being required of too many other players on offense. And we're looking at letting our most consistent player on the D walk to keep a QB and/or WR paid at the top tier level. This is an incomplete defense and will get worse without Jones.

OK, again, not about Prescott, this is about the idea of trying to get that future Tier 1 QB which would probably mean a couple of steps back to take some forward but steps I believe necessary to reach the destination.

Good food for thought.
I hope our front office makes the right decisions.
Our franchise is at serious crossroads...

 

[KMY_Amber]

There's a compelling case for a rookie QB who is performing well with considerably less talent around him than Dak has.

I mean--take Cooper off this team and you still have more talent on the Cowboys offense at the skill positions than Arizona currently does.
Yet Dak's numbers last year the first half of the 2018 season before Cooper arrived, were shamefully bad. Embarassingly bad. Dak, the first half of 2018, without Amari: under 200 yards passing 4 out of 7 games. 8 TD in 7 games. zero--ZERO--doubt in my mind a rookie Murray could have done significantly better in that situation than 3rd year Dak.

Yeah, I'd take any of those guys on my list over Dak without blinking.

Apples to oranges. Murray's team is often behind, so he's in helter-skelter mode for most of the 2nd half in most games. The numbers get inflated.

The Cowboys try to stay with Zeke for as long as possible, the games are closer, less possessions with more running, so Dak's stats aren't often inflated.

Stats, schmats.... Dak is a solid QB.

But it doesn't matter what we think, because JJ's signing Dak. He likes Dak, and so do most pundits. So he and Zeke are keepers for some years to come. They will be the foundation of this team. Thus, highlighting all of Dak's weaknesses, and not focusing on his strengths, it's just wasted energy as you support a team that you likely will never stop rooting for.

 

[Future]

There's a compelling case for a rookie QB who is performing well with considerably less talent around him than Dak has.

I mean--take Cooper off this team and you still have more talent on the Cowboys offense at the skill positions than Arizona currently does.
Yet Dak's numbers last year the first half of the 2018 season before Cooper arrived, were shamefully bad. Embarassingly bad. Dak, the first half of 2018, without Amari: under 200 yards passing 4 out of 7 games. 8 TD in 7 games. zero--ZERO--doubt in my mind a rookie Murray could have done significantly better in that situation than 3rd year Dak.

Yeah, I'd take any of those guys on my list over Dak without blinking.

No there isn't.

No there's not.

Murray is a product of Kingsbury's system. Put him in about 28 other offenses and he's terrible.

That's fine. It makes your team worse.

 

[G2]

And yet two of those 3 (Darnold, Allen) have already outperformed Dak head to head this year.

Should have kept reading. I made a pretty compelling case for Murray.
He's performing at a comparable level to Dak as a rookie, with significantly less talent around him.

Makes sense though, if it doesn't fit your narrative/agenda, just plug your ears, close your eyes, and keep blissfully traveling on.

Did they play one on one or something?