News: Some details on the procedure LVE will have

[Brooksey]

Not good at all..Stenosis is one thing but Cervical Fusion for a LB is another. Can't see him being the same player, hope I'm wrong.

 

[Creeper]

I have a few thoughts on this. First, I read an article that Vander Esch was examined by draft combine doctors who did not find anything seriously wrong with his neck. They gave him a 4 out of a possible 5 which usually means there are no chronic medical conditions to be concerned about when drafting a player. I hear people talking about stenosis and I wonder if this is true or if the doctors missed that at the combine. If the latter that who the heck does the NFL use as doctors to examine the players? In any case, given the hit LVE took and the way his neck bent forward and to the side, it is entirely possible this injury was just the result of that impact and not from a previous condition.

This procedure sounds bad, but medicine today is so advanced compared to even 10 years ago, particularly when it comes to spinal procedures, that it does not have to be as serious as it sounds. I wish LVE the best and I am not saying that because I want him playing football again. I trust the doctors know more than we do about both the injury and the procedure he will have.

 

[Valkyr]

All I read is that they are dissecting his cervix.

 

[jnday]

“Vander Esch will have his surgery in a few weeks. The Cowboys had been hoping medically treating his cervical herniation of the disk between the fifth and sixth vertebrae would reduce the swelling. The most recent examination reveals no herniation reduction.

Vander Esch will now undergo an anterior cervical discectomy with fusion procedure. This entails removing the herniated disk and using bone from the hip to fuse into the space between the two vertebrae.

Typically full recovery takes four months. This is not expected to be career threatening, and know several former Cowboys players underwent this procedure and continued their careers: Daryl Johnston, Rocket Ismail, Chad Hennings and Izell Reese to name a few.”

Read the rest here: https://www.dallascowboys.com/news/merry-shots-of-lve-worst-fears-and-gifts

I have had that procedure done three separate times. If they only fix one level, he should be fine.

 

[Hennessy_King]

Being so young and having his spine fused is not good. Hope for the best but I think it will limit his abilities.

 

[visionary]

Cutting into the hip and inserting the bone into the neck is “minimally invasive”?

OK guys, please calm down.
Minimally invasive refers not to the procedure being done but to the ‘approach’ to get there
These days major major surgeries can be done in a “minimally invasive” manner

 

[jwooten15]

Back fusions aren't minimally invasive. Not by a long shot.

Regular Joe's have similar procedures done and have lingering pain/discomfort for years.

Imagine playing the most physical position in football, at the highest level after that.

I hope everything turns out well though. Just a little scared since he also had neck issues in college.

 

[RS12]

I hope it works out but I am not optimistic. Football and neck problems are usually a bad mix.

 

[Point-of-the-Star]

None of them had stenosis though, did they nor did they have continual neck related issues as a result of it? Johnston’s surgery came in 97 and he retired two years later. They are completely removing a vertebrae and using bone from the hip and during vertebrae. Peyton Manning lost all arm strength in about a year.

I wouldn’t trust TEAM doctors, whose interests are the team. LVE better get independent doctors to provide recommendations. If this is what the team doctors actually believe, no wonder the organization is a cluster F.

And people blame Zeke for wanting his money, NOW...

This linky may help visualization: https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/spinal-stenosis/symptoms-causes/syc-20352961

Your info is wrong if the original post is correct. According to the OP they are performing a discectomy. This is either full removal or partial removal of a disc, not the bone (vertebrae). Fusion is done in multiple ways. I have not seen an iliac crest (the hip pointer bone) donor site fusion in 5-6 years. Most of the fusions I see involve ground donor bone mixed with an epoxy and also titanium rod/screw placement. Also some neurosurgical services replace disc with an artificial spacer.

It is true that a fusion changes the force dynamics on the vertebral structure. In other words if a previous fluid joint is fused and made immoveable then downward force is just transferred to another level. If this is a congenital birth structural defect (the stenosis or narrow cord canal/nerve pathways) this will probably always be an potential issue IF at every level.

Having said the above his stenosis might just be 1 or 2 levels and not consistent with the whole vertebral structure. None of us know if we don't have the imaging studies and aren't trained to interpret and imaging isn't even 100% to the trained eye. Bottom line ... this is just a wait and see situation. Discectomy and fusion is a very common procedure.

Almost every one of our OL have similar issues with nerve compression with Tyron Smith having the worst issues.

 

[perrykemp]

Your info is wrong if the original post is correct. According to the OP they are performing a discectomy. This is either full removal or partial removal of a disc, not the bone (vertebrae). Fusion is done in multiple ways. I have not seen an iliac crest (the hip pointer bone) donor site fusion in 5-6 years. Most of the fusions I see involve ground donor bone mixed with an epoxy and also titanium rod/screw placement. Also some neurosurgical services replace disc with an artificial spacer.

It is true that a fusion changes the force dynamics on the vertebral structure. In other words if a previous fluid joint is fused and made immoveable then downward force is just transferred to another level. If this is a congenital birth structural defect (the stenosis or narrow cord canal/nerve pathways) this will probably always be an potential issue IF at every level.

Having said the above his stenosis might just be 1 or 2 levels and not consistent with the whole vertebral structure. None of us know if we don't have the imaging studies and aren't trained to interpret and imaging isn't even 100% to the trained eye. Bottom line ... this is just a wait and see situation. Discectomy and fusion is a very common procedure.

Almost every one of our OL have similar issues with nerve compression with Tyron Smith having the worst issues.

I appreciate the detail here. Thanks.

To my amateur medical ear, multiple neck injuries over the past 3-4 years, the diagnosis of stenosis, and now a cervical fusion all add up to a LOT concern for this young man.

I want him playing LB for the Cowboys next year however I also hope he steps back with his wife and family and puts some serious thought into his health for the rest of his life.

 

[windward]

"Minimally invasive" the ticker on NFLN has been saying? How can the team even claim this? A discectomy and fusion are about as far from minimally invasive as you can get.

It’s technically considered minimally invasive from what I’ve gathered from the doctors I’ve talked to regarding my own situation. But that also doesn’t mean it’s going to ensure he has a prolonged career.

Moose gets the surgery in 97. Plays in 98. Gets reinsured in 99 week 1 and has to retire.

Rocket didn’t return after getting his surgery in 2002. And neither did Hennings. In short this article is quite misleading.

 

[windward]

OK guys, please calm down.
Minimally invasive refers not to the procedure being done but to the ‘approach’ to get there
These days major major surgeries can be done in a “minimally invasive” manner

Pretty much what my neurosurgeon told me.

 

[khiladi]

This linky may help visualization: https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/spinal-stenosis/symptoms-causes/syc-20352961

Your info is wrong if the original post is correct. According to the OP they are performing a discectomy. This is either full removal or partial removal of a disc, not the bone (vertebrae). Fusion is done in multiple ways. I have not seen an iliac crest (the hip pointer bone) donor site fusion in 5-6 years. Most of the fusions I see involve ground donor bone mixed with an epoxy and also titanium rod/screw placement. Also some neurosurgical services replace disc with an artificial spacer.

It is true that a fusion changes the force dynamics on the vertebral structure. In other words if a previous fluid joint is fused and made immoveable then downward force is just transferred to another level. If this is a congenital birth structural defect (the stenosis or narrow cord canal/nerve pathways) this will probably always be an potential issue IF at every level.

Having said the above his stenosis might just be 1 or 2 levels and not consistent with the whole vertebral structure. None of us know if we don't have the imaging studies and aren't trained to interpret and imaging isn't even 100% to the trained eye. Bottom line ... this is just a wait and see situation. Discectomy and fusion is a very common procedure.

Almost every one of our OL have similar issues with nerve compression with Tyron Smith having the worst issues.

LVE has supposedly had spinal stenosis since he was a kid and has had constant problems throughout his career. We are not talking about a regular person dealing with the complications, we are talking about a MLB using his body, including launching his body for collision and tackling purposes.

The disk is not bone, it is meant as a cushion. They are basically going to replace the disk or cushion with the bone. Anybody claiming this procedure is minimal is lying.

Force is not simply transfers downward. Depending on where the fushion occurs, biomechanically, he will experience loss of motion around that area. This is not a matter of medical opinions, this is an issue of forces and physics and how they act, aka dynamics. Vertebrae are meant to have mobility. Fushions decrease flexibility and will obviously impact how quickly and to what degree he can turn his head and also. Increases the potential of breakage there. This can lead to additional wear and tear on other areas of his neck, depending on his established biomechanics

Further there is PLENTY of literature questioning its effectiveness. It is in fact better to stabilize the spine via proper biomechanics than perform this procedure.

 

[mattjames2010]

I still don't understand, if this was ALWAYS known why this is just now public? The way LVE used to speak, especially in college, he spoke like nothing was ever wrong with his spine/neck.

Seems like something pretty important to know around draft time. Maybe I missed something, but I sure as hell don't remember reading anything like that.

 

[Plankton]

Using these guys as examples of this being "no big deal" is at worst untruthful and at best misleading.

Daryl Johnston had his fusion surgery in 1997, and basically lasted one more season before having to retire.

Chad Hennings had his fusion surgery in November, 2000 and never played again.

Rocket Ismail had his fusion surgery in August, 2002. He never played again.

Izell Reese had his fusion in 2000, and managed to last another four seasons. He's the outlier.

For a more direct comparison position wise, Chris Spielman injured his neck in 1997 while playing for the Bills. He had a fusion procedure performed. He missed 1998 when his wife was terminal with cancer. He tried to come back with the Browns in 1999, and didn't make it through training camp before he hurt his neck again. He retired shortly after that.

Vander Esch's career is at risk with this procedure. Looking at the odds, it's more than likely that he won't have a long career beyond the operation.

 

[khiladi]

I have a few thoughts on this. First, I read an article that Vander Esch was examined by draft combine doctors who did not find anything seriously wrong with his neck. They gave him a 4 out of a possible 5 which usually means there are no chronic medical conditions to be concerned about when drafting a player. I hear people talking about stenosis and I wonder if this is true or if the doctors missed that at the combine. If the latter that who the heck does the NFL use as doctors to examine the players? In any case, given the hit LVE took and the way his neck bent forward and to the side, it is entirely possible this injury was just the result of that impact and not from a previous condition.

This procedure sounds bad, but medicine today is so advanced compared to even 10 years ago, particularly when it comes to spinal procedures, that it does not have to be as serious as it sounds. I wish LVE the best and I am not saying that because I want him playing football again. I trust the doctors know more than we do about both the injury and the procedure he will have.

This is why people have questions. Many teams actually thought it was an issue and shied away from him. Neck issues have followed LVE throughout his career, which is why he finally started wearing that neck guard. So they must have had their own doctors provide input into the matter. The claim was that it was a stinger or pinched nerve.

Further, NOW the reports are saying he has been playing with spinal stenosis, that he has had SINCE BIRTH.

So if that is the case, the stenosis was being hidden at the time of the draft by somebody, if the sources regarding LVEs childhood is correct.


https://www.chicagotribune.com/sns-tns-bc-fbn-cowboys-vanderesch-20191224-story.html

 

[erod]

Oh, so his career isn't over and *shocker* the people playing doctor here should stick to picking scabs.

He's a middle linebacker repeatedly going head-to-head with NFL linemen, fullbacks, and running backs at full speed.

With a fused spine to protect a herniated disc that isn't healing.

Backs almost never fully heal.

Are you serious? He's probably an aggravation away from calling it a career.

In fact, it wouldn't shock me if he never plays again.

 

[khiladi]

Using these guys as examples of this being "no big deal" is at worst untruthful and at best misleading.

Daryl Johnston had his fusion surgery in 1997, and basically lasted one more season before having to retire.

Chad Hennings had his fusion surgery in November, 2000 and never played again.

Rocket Ismail had his fusion surgery in August, 2002. He never played again.

Izell Reese had his fusion in 2000, and managed to last another four seasons. He's the outlier.

For a more direct comparison position wise, Chris Spielman injured his neck in 1997 while playing for the Bills. He had a fusion procedure performed. He missed 1998 when his wife was terminal with cancer. He tried to come back with the Browns in 1999, and didn't make it through training camp before he hurt his neck again. He retired shortly after that.

Vander Esch's career is at risk with this procedure. Looking at the odds, it's more than likely that he won't have a long career beyond the operation.

Exactly.. This is PR nonsense and shows whoever is behind it has ZERO interest in the long term health of LVE. Of course it’s his decision, but doctors, which include the TEAM doctors, have an ethical responsibility to the patient.

Anybody blaming players for demanding lots of money, while things like this are happening and further spouting nonsense, is full of doo doo. Players don’t owe teams jack. This is a business and people need to stop pretending like it isn’t.

I can’t stand Dak as our QB, but I’m not going to hate him for his money demands. He should get whatever he thinks he can.

 

[khiladi]

OK guys, please calm down.
Minimally invasive refers not to the procedure being done but to the ‘approach’ to get there
These days major major surgeries can be done in a “minimally invasive” manner

Which is true, but it can also be used to spin the issue like it isn’t a big deal.

 

[visionary]

Which is true, but it can also be used to spin the issue like it isn’t a big deal.

it is a technical term
No spin
The only people spinning or being spun are those who don’t know