The Elite QB Farce

[kskboys]

That’s an opinion. And I’d agree it was a major factor much like Troy. But we’ve had other QB win championships that didn’t get in. And why I wouldn’t say it was that alone.

Playing at a high level on the biggest stages matters.

If we can’t agree HOF is a basis for Elite what is the basis?

Not 4.

Only a few, and they were obviously just OK QB's. The only multiple Super bowl winner not in is Plunkett, and he was not great.

IDK, Greg, if they start putting guys like Eli in, then that would go to show you that all of them are not great. Eli was not even close to great/elite.

 

[G2]

That’s a fan who only watches highlites would use. I recall some of the great throws in the Super Bowl and playoffs.

I’m not here to defend Terry. Guy couldn’t spell cat.

Im here to discuss if HOF isn’t a basis for Elite. What is?

You assume too much. Little pompous but you're chasing your tail, so I get it.

 

[Kwyn]

Quincy was drafted at 53 and I don't really consider that to be a premium pick for a QB.
I think if you can't get your QB in the 1st round, then you trade to the top of the 2nd (like Chargers with Brees) and make sure you get the best QB left.
However, Jerry simply refuses to do that when drafting QB's, even though it's the most important position.

Can you imagine if Brees was a Cowboy all this time?

I don’t know if he “refuses” so much as he hasn’t had a good opportunity

As to Brees - he wasn’t very good ... at all ... his first three years. Records and stats clearly show Dak performed better in his first four years than Brees did. Brees didn’t make the Pro Bowl until year four and didn’t win a playoff game until year 6 after he joined a future HOF coach in New Orleans. It’s not fair to look back at a HOF QB career that spans 19 years, 14 of which were with Peyton and play “what if” when Dak has only had 4 years with Garrett.

when it comes to 2016, we would have taken Wentz at 4 if he hadn’t gone to Philly at 2

We were trying to trade up to to the top of the 2nd round for Lynch but Denver took him at 28.

The Cowboys were going to take the best QB they could get in the 2016 draft. This was the planned year that Jerry was going to find a replacement for Romo.

Here are the QB’s taken before we got Dak

Goff - 1
Wentz - 2
Lynch - 28
Hackenberg - 51
Brissett - 91
Kessler - 93
Cook - 100
Dak - 135

Neither the Rams not the Eagles were going to take our #4 overall for #1 or #2 because both teams desperately needed a QB. I suppose we could have given them the #4 overall (Zeke) and our 2017 1st to move up to #2 for Wentz (I use Jimmy’s draft value calculator which is the standard) but since the Eagles were desperate and already in love with Wentz it probably would have taken more.

With Romo still considered to have a couple of good years left we took a QB that we thought could develop under him, that being Dak. The timeline was just accelerated when Romo got hurt

2014 was Arguably Romo’s best year, the Cowboys went 12-3 and Romo made the pro bowl. No way we were drafting a QB in 2015 but that ended up being the year Romo only played 4 games, we went 4-12, and it became obvious we needed to look to the future at QB which was prompted the Cowboys plans for the 2016 draft. Good thing because Romo got hurt again That year and only played 1 game

I’d say we handled the 2016 draft pretty darn well considering our resources and the available QB pool.

Do you disagree?

 

[Diehardblues]

Not 4.

Only a few, and they were obviously just OK QB's. The only multiple Super bowl winner not in is Plunkett, and he was not great.

IDK, Greg, if they start putting guys like Eli in, then that would go to show you that all of them are not great. Eli was not even close to great/elite.

I think Eli is marginal as well. Career stats along with Rings matter. He played at a high level in those Super Bowl runs.

Again, I’d ask if we don’t use HOF as basis for Elite what then?

 

[khiladi]

What Tannehill and Jimmy G are proving is that Dak is completely replaceable with this OL and RB.

 

[Diehardblues]

You assume too much. Little pompous but you're chasing your tail, so I get it.

I have an incredible strong argument. One I can’t even believe needs presenting.

I have yet for someone to tell me if HOF isn’t a basis for Elite, what is?

 

[G2]

Being overrated and propped up from having great teams around you doesn't equate elite.

 

[Diehardblues]

What Tannehill and Jimmy G are proving is that Dak is completely replaceable with this OL and RB.

This^^^^^^

 

[G2]

I have an incredible strong argument. One I can’t even believe needs presenting.

I have yet for someone to tell me if HOF isn’t a basis for Elite, what is?

You also fail to have any sort of self awareness.

 

[kskboys]

I think Eli is marginal as well. Career stats along with Rings matter. He played at a high level in those Super Bowl runs.

Again, I’d ask if we don’t use HOF as basis for Elite what then?

I think it's not a black/white proposition.

If they put Eli in, then elite goes out the window.

Not as high as people are claiming. He was terrible vs SF in the 11 run, but his D and Kyle Williams' fumbling bailed him out over and over and over.

 

[khiladi]

This^^^^^^

The irony is Dak defenders using ‘surrounding team’ as the reason for JG and Tannehill’s success, but completely ignoring it for Dak. Dak gets all the excuses when they keep failing.

Even with Tannehill, the Titans pass blocking is bottom of the league. They’ve allowed like 56 sacks.

 

[Irvin88_4life]

That’s an opinion. And I’d agree it was a major factor much like Troy. But we’ve had other QB win championships that didn’t get in. And why I wouldn’t say it was that alone.

Playing at a high level on the biggest stages matters.

If we can’t agree HOF is a basis for Elite what is the basis?

What other Dallas QB won championships that didn't get in?

 

[khiladi]

I am from the California Bay Area. Seen too many 49er games for my liking. Even Niner fans will attest to this. Dak is the better quarterback playing in an inferior system. Let’s see what this new regime has in store.

Dak is a laughing stock. No these fans won’t..

 

[CouchCoach]

And I like to compare the QBs when they played. We would not be talking about Aikman or Bradshaw if their team didn't win SBs. Their numbers were nothing to even talk about.

Witten will get in because of his stats, second only to Gonzalez, and his durability to play this long. I do not consider him an elite TE. I would take Novacek over him all day long and he's not in the HOF.

The media making these players household names and gushing about them in games has as much to do with getting into the HOF. The awareness factor does play well into it.

 

[CouchCoach]

This is a comment I’d expect from a casual fan.

Then you didn’t watch some of those great throws in the playoffs, championship games and Super Bowls.

Yep, I did and that is his most famous play.

 

[khiladi]

Put Dak on the Tannehill Miami teams and guy would have been out of the league already or a backup, holding the clip board somewhere, running the practice squad

 

[TWOK11]

Jimmy G is already a more accurate passer than Dak and his decision making will improve when he too has 4 years of starter experience. Better passer than Jackson ? Dak throws mostly above, behind, and in the dirt. Every once in a while he throws accurately. So no, Dak is not a better passer than Jackson. All the QB’s in the playoffs are BETTER than Dak except maybe Tannehil and Cousins. Dak’s stats are mostly empty stats from blowouts of bad teams. Can he drive the bus ? Maybe. But with inconsistency and inaccuracy, he plays like a 4th round QB. Maybe he can be consistently accurate in a West coast offense throwing 6-8 yard passes. We’ll see. But Elite ? Nah, he’s a slightly better Cousins or Tannehill

I’m fortunate enough to say I don’t know what it’s like to walk through life being so detached from reality.

 

[Kwyn]

Staubach TD and stats are laughable compared to this era.

If we can’t establish HOF as Elite then the definition is baseless.

Ive never been so ashamed of this forum. Lol

I think you make a decent argument as most of the modern era QB’s in the HOF were at the time considered to be at the top of their game, which we now label as “elite”

Most of us didn’t watch some of these players and many of us weren’t even born before a number of them were retired, but it’s reasonable to call most of them “Elite”

Of those on the list, I also think it’s fair to say that Bradshaw benefited more than most from playing with a truly elite “team” on which he was never their best player.

Most of the others on the list were either significantly better athletes, or were the best players on their teams, or both. Some of them carried their teams in their backs. Bradshaw never had to do that.

You and I both watched the Steelers on Sunday’s and you likely know this to be true.

Still, for QB’s, rings are the ultimate measuring stick so he was an easy HOF vote.

Troy Aikman 1989-2000
George Blanda 1949-1958, 1960-1975
Terry Bradshaw 1970-1983
Len Dawson 1957-1975
John Elway 1983-1998
Brett Favre 1991-2010
Dan Fouts 1973-1987
Otto Graham 1946-1955
Bob Griese 1967-1980
Sonny Jurgensen 1957-1974
Jim Kelly 1986-1996
Bobby Layne 1948-1962
Dan Marino 1983-1999
Joe Montana 1979-1994
Warren Moon 1984-2000
Joe Namath 1965-1977
Ken Stabler 1970-1984
Bart Starr 1956-1971
Roger Staubach 1969-1979
Fran Tarkenton 1961-1978
Y.A. Tittle 1948-1964
Johnny Unitas 1956-1973
Norm Van Brocklin 1949-1960
Kurt Warner 1998-2009
Bob Waterfield 1945-1952
Steve Young 1985-1999

 

[mattjames2010]

Jimmy G isn’t better than Dak, and if we include all 8 teams from the divisional round Dak is clearly better than 3 (Tannehill, Garappolo, Cousins) and a better passer than another (Jackson). Dak and Watson are very similar in terms of numbers and success to this point in their careers. So only 3 of the final 8 teams this
year have a QB you can say is clearly better than Prescott and one of them (Rodgers) is nearing the end of his career while Dak has another 10+ years.

Yes, he is. Watch more football.

 

[mattjames2010]

Being overrated and propped up from having great teams around you doesn't equate elite.

Plenty of QBs throughout NFL history have been on great teams with mediocre to poor stats. This argument is bogus.